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I would agree to an extent, Li. We can learn from the Old Testament. But that should be a learning that points to the cross and to grace.

Pastors should not be preaching the Old Testament Mosaic Law as something that
God commands us to OBey today. Sadly, many Churches, even IFB Churches, teach OBedience to the Law that was never meant for them. When they do so, they tempt God and they subvert the souls of their congregation.

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Pastors should not be preaching the Old Testament Mosaic Law as something that God commands us to OBey today. Sadly, many Churches, even IFB Churches, teach OBedience to the Law that was never meant for them. When they do so, they tempt God and they subvert the souls of their congregation.

Like the 10% tithe maybe? Or woman in pants while men still wear woolen jerseys? Or the subversion of woman as a lesser and inferior species? How about kingdom now and prosperity? The list can go on as to how the Word has been misinterpreted by those who should be rightly dividing.

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I would agree to an extent, Li. We can learn from the Old Testament. But that should be a learning that points to the cross and to grace.

Pastors should not be preaching the Old Testament Mosaic Law as something that
God commands us to OBey today. Sadly, many Churches, even IFB Churches, teach OBedience to the Law that was never meant for them. When they do so, they tempt God and they subvert the souls of their congregation.

This is a doctrine.

We don't want doctrine.

We want to rip verses out of context (wrongly divide), spiritualize non-applicable instructions, recast the stumbling block that Israel fell over.

This all sounds familiar.

Wait, I know where I've heard it before, RCC Replacement Theology.
The Church replaced Israel.
Sure.
Thanks to the Fundamentalist Movement, all kinds of RCC false doctrine has infiltrated the Baptists.
We read books about "great Christians"...Protestant Catholics .
We lift up "heroes of the faith", who believed in Lordship Repentance, Loss of Salvation, Works regeneration, and most of all...replacement theology.

So put those silly Gentiles back in the yoke, that Israel could never bear.

Throw away your cotton blend shirts, damn you if you've eaten shrimp, stone your kids to death, for sassing Mom, and wave your food at God before you eat, when your brethren pay tithes to you.

Or, realize that your Law is "love the LORD thy God with all thy heart, and thy neighbor as thyself", and that is it.

Avoid a few things, conduct assembly by the instructions given, and pray for all of the Saints.

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Going back to the opening post... there's a church in town that has a single/divorced/widowed mom's day once a year. they change their oil check other things in cars, wash cars, get massages, manicures and lots of other stuff. I was tempted to go this year.

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 I don't have a bible that is for the Gentile only or the Jew only , I have the King James Bible Gods Holly Word written for all mankind unto All understanding and all His Truths ( the Old And New Testaments ) in which God speaks through daily to my heart.

 

Thank you 2belikeJesus  for sharing what God has spoken to you in your heart and for your response to help the needy children.

 

God bless you Brother 

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I don't have a bible that is for the Gentile only or the Jew only , I have the King James Bible Gods Holly Word written for all mankind unto All understanding and all His Truths ( the Old And New Testaments ) in which God speaks through daily to my heart.

Thank you 2belikeJesus for sharing what God has spoken to you in your heart and for your response to help the needy children.

God bless you Brother

You have God's Word that you are supposed to study, rightly DIVIDING.
That means you know Who a passage is addressing, before you try to apply it.
When Malachi 1:1 says "to Israel", guess what? It isn't talking to you.
You weren't part of that covenant.
You aren't under that curse.

To wear a lack of OBedience to God's command to rightly divide the Word of truth, as a badge of honor, is to expose folly, simplicity, and pride.

There is a reason that He said "divide", in The King James Holy Bible.
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Acts 2 Sect of the Nazarenes, in Jerusalem

And all that believed were together, and had all things common; [ie: communists]

And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.

 

These are not the rules for the Body of Christ (ie: church of God) presented by Paul in his epistles.

Edited by beameup
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I see what you're saying, but I don't think I would compare the early church to communism. Those dear souls were isolated...just starting out in a nation that was against them. Of course they took care of each other...which by the way, we do find that principle of taking care of each other's physical needs in the writings of Paul...which (in my opinion) is one of the great failures of today's church.

 

Romans 12:13
Distributing to the necessity of saints; given to hospitality.

 

1 Corinthians 16:1
Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye.

 

2 Corinthians 8:1-4

1   Moreover, brethren, we do you to wit of the grace of God bestowed on the churches of Macedonia;
2   How that in a great trial of affliction the abundance of their joy and their deep poverty abounded unto the riches of their liberality.
3   For to their power, I bear record, yea, and beyond their power they were willing of themselves;
4   Praying us with much intreaty that we would receive the gift, and take upon us the fellowship of the ministering to the saints.

 

Romans 15:25-27
25   But now I go unto Jerusalem to minister unto the saints.
26   For it hath pleased them of Macedonia and Achaia to make a certain contribution for the poor saints which are at Jerusalem.
27   It hath pleased them verily; and their debtors they are. For if the Gentiles have been made partakers of their spiritual things, their duty is also to minister unto them in carnal things.

 

2 Corinthians 9:1-5
1   For as touching the ministering to the saints, it is superfluous for me to write to you:
2   For I know the forwardness of your mind, for which I boast of you to them of Macedonia, that Achaia was ready a year ago; and your zeal hath provoked very many.
3   Yet have I sent the brethren, lest our boasting of you should be in vain in this behalf; that, as I said, ye may be ready:
4   Lest haply if they of Macedonia come with me, and find you unprepared, we (that we say not, ye) should be ashamed in this same confident boasting.
5   Therefore I thought it necessary to exhort the brethren, that they would go before unto you, and make up beforehand your bounty, whereof ye had notice before, that the same might be ready, as a matter of bounty, and not as of covetousness.

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Galatians 3

26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

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The example in Acts 2 has nothing to do with communism, nothing to do with political philosophy at all. Communism is the force of government trying to force equality upon the population, at the expense of those who work hard, and to the further detriment of those who are lazy. All this with the false political projection that at some point communism will so impact the people they will live in perfect, utopian oneness with no further need of government, Man creating heaven on earth.

 

In Acts 2 Believers voluntarily helped their fellow brothers/sisters in Christ. They showed true familial love one to another just as Jesus called for. That is still the call of the church and an area we have, overall, failed terribly.

 

Wrongly interpreting "dividing" leads to these many wrongful divisions some make which make much of the Bible of none effect and detracts from the continuity of Scripture.

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This is a doctrine.

We don't want doctrine.

We want to rip verses out of context (wrongly divide), spiritualize non-applicable instructions, recast the stumbling block that Israel fell over.

This all sounds familiar.

Wait, I know where I've heard it before, RCC Replacement Theology.
The Church replaced Israel.
Sure.
Thanks to the Fundamentalist Movement, all kinds of RCC false doctrine has infiltrated the Baptists.
We read books about "great Christians"...Protestant Catholics .
We lift up "heroes of the faith", who believed in Lordship Repentance, Loss of Salvation, Works regeneration, and most of all...replacement theology.

So put those silly Gentiles back in the yoke, that Israel could never bear.

Throw away your cotton blend shirts, damn you if you've eaten shrimp, stone your kids to death, for sassing Mom, and wave your food at God before you eat, when your brethren pay tithes to you.

Or, realize that your Law is "love the LORD thy God with all thy heart, and thy neighbor as thyself", and that is it.

Avoid a few things, conduct assembly by the instructions given, and pray for all of the Saints.

Romans 15:4  For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope. 

 

The Old Testament scriptures are written for us even through they are written to the Jews.

 

Yes we are not under Old Testament Law anymore, but we still should make applications from what God was trying to teach with O.T. Law.

There are a lot of good principles in the Old Testament for us to follow.

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God in the current dispensation of Grace does not kill with the sword if you do not care for the fatherless and widows.  Today you will be judged on everything you do at the judgement seat of Christ for how you helped or treated the poor, widows and orphans.

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You will be judged only on whether you "walked in the spirit" or "walked in the flesh" (ie: "carnal", "old man") at the judgment seat.

Walking in the Spirit is OBeying the Holy Spirit and doing what he tells you.  There are no "sins" to be judged at the bemis seat.

 

As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:  Col 2:6

You "hear" the Holy Spirit when you are saved, you "hear" Him the same way now.

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You will be judged only on whether you "walked in the spirit" or "walked in the flesh" (ie: "carnal", "old man") at the judgment seat.
Walking in the Spirit is OBeying the Holy Spirit and doing what he tells you. There are no "sins" to be judged at the bemis seat.

As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him: Col 2:6
You "hear" the Holy Spirit when you are saved, you "hear" Him the same way now.


Rom 8:9
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

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Rom 8:9
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babies in Christ.

 

This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.

Edited by beameup
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You have God's Word that you are supposed to study, rightly DIVIDING.
That means you know Who a passage is addressing, before you try to apply it.
When Malachi 1:1 says "to Israel", guess what? It isn't talking to you.
You weren't part of that covenant.
You aren't under that curse.

To wear a lack of OBedience to God's command to rightly divide the Word of truth, as a badge of honor, is to expose folly, simplicity, and pride.
 

I know how to rightly divide the word of God as I have explained to you before in another thread , and yes I study Gods Word Daily and know I'm not under the law or a covenant.  what I'm speaking of is "God speaking to the heart through His Word " Many times God Has spoken through His word to my heart and I have acted upon it '' Which is being OBedient to God " and the way I see it brother Garry acted upon God speaking to his heart to help the needy children on his bus route." which is being OBedient to God "  which we are to help the Needy . this has nothing to do with rightly

dividing Gods Word neither does the post by brother Garry.

God bless 

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You have God's Word that you are supposed to study, rightly DIVIDING.
That means you know Who a passage is addressing, before you try to apply it.
When Malachi 1:1 says "to Israel", guess what? It isn't talking to you.
You weren't part of that covenant.
You aren't under that curse.

To wear a lack of OBedience to God's command to rightly divide the Word of truth, as a badge of honor, is to expose folly, simplicity, and pride.

There is a reason that He said "divide", in The King James Holy Bible.

Correct.  And further proof that the Laws given to Israel were not given to Gentile nations is found in the Psalms.

Psalms 147:19 He sheweth his word unto JacOB, his statutes and his judgments unto Israel.
Psalms 147:20 He hath not dealt so with any nation: and as for his judgments, they have not known them. Praise ye the LORD.

And what was the Jerusalem Council in AD 51for?  Judaizers had been demanding that the Gentiles that had trusted Christ Jesus for Salvation "keep the Law of Moses".

What did the Apostles have to say about such demands?  It was "tempting God (Acts 15:10 ) & "subverting the souls" of the Gentiles (Acts 15:24)

What was the final decision?    That the Gentiles not be required but to OBserve four necessary things. (Acts 15:28-29)

Eight years later, the Apostle Paul was reminded of that same decision. (Acts 21:23-25)

The Christian today is not bound by the Mosaic Law, and for them to go to the house of the Law while married to Christ is equivalent to adultery.

Romans 7:1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
Romans 7:2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
Romans 7:3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
Romans 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

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Like the 10% tithe maybe? Or woman in pants while men still wear woolen jerseys? Or the subversion of woman as a lesser and inferior species? How about kingdom now and prosperity? The list can go on as to how the Word has been misinterpreted by those who should be rightly dividing.

Tithing was practiced before the giving of the Law of Moses. Abraham was the first man who tithed (Genesis 14:18-20). He did not tithe out of OBligation to the Law; he tithed to honor God through God’s representative king/priest Melchizedek. JacOB continued the practice of tithing (Genesis 28:20-22). We see, then, that tithing is not something that originated with the Law. It was a principle that has been understood by God’s people from the beginning.

 

(1) Remember that tithing pre-dated the Law of Moses. It was not because he was under the Law that Abraham tithed; he tithed because he wanted to honor God and support God’s work as represented by Melchizedek. This is a good example for New Testament believers, because we are children of Abraham by faith (Romans 4:16-17).

(2) The Old Testament was given for our example (Rom. 15:4; 1 Cor. 10:11). Paul used the Mosaic system of giving as authority for his teaching that New Testament believers are OBligated to support preachers (1 Cor. 9:8-14).

(3) It is the express will of Christ that His people be giving people (Luke 6:38). Many people I have met who “do not believe in tithing” are stingy. They do not bear their rightful load in the church. Stinginess and tightfistedness should never characterize the child of God. Even if you do not believe that the tithe is a matter of law, you should be ashamed to keep more than 90% of your income for yourself in light of the great needs of God’s work in this present world. I hasten to add that not all people who do not consider the tithe a matter of law today are stingy. In fact, I know some who give 30%, 40%, even 50% of their income to the Lord.

(4) The believer has many financial OBligations. 
The Great Commission is an OBligation. We are commanded to carry the gospel to every person in every nation (Mk. 16:18; Acts 1:8). This is called Christ’s “Great Commission” because it is repeated five times in the New Testament, thus emphasizing its importance. The worldwide preaching of the gospel is intimately associated with Christ’s death in that Christ’s suffering for man’s sin is ineffective if the gospel is not proclaimed (Luke 24:46-47). World missions is a very expensive enterprise. Every believer is OBligated to do what he can to further this work, and this includes preaching the gospel himself, praying, and giving. Supporting preachers and missionaries is an OBligation (1 Cor. 9:14; Phil. 4:15-17; Titus 3:13-14; 3 John 5-8). The church is also an OBligation. It is the house of God and the pillar and ground of the truth in this age (1 Tim. 3:15). It is the headquarters for world evangelism (Acts 14:1-4). Thus, every believer has an OBligation to support the work of the church financially so it can fulfill its God-given function in this needy world.

 

From Wayoflife.org

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I know how to rightly divide the word of God as I have explained to you before in another thread , and yes I study Gods Word Daily and know I'm not under the law or a covenant. what I'm speaking of is "God speaking to the heart through His Word " Many times God Has spoken through His word to my heart and I have acted upon it '' Which is being OBedient to God " and the way I see it brother Garry acted upon God speaking to his heart to help the needy children on his bus route." which is being OBedient to God " which we are to help the Needy . this has nothing to do with rightly
dividing Gods Word neither does the post by brother Garry.
God bless

If you are not under the new/everlasting covenant in the blood of Jesus, you are not saved. Hebrews 13:20-21 Edited by Covenanter
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Matthew 10:42 And whosoever shall give to drink unto one of these little ones a cup of cold water only in the name of a disciple, verily I say unto you, he shall in no wise lose his reward.

James 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.
1 John 3:17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?

Edited by Standing Firm In Christ
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If you are not under the new/everlasting covenant in the blood of Jesus, you are not saved. Hebrews 13:20-2

Thanks for catching that '' (Old testament covenant to be corrected )  I've been washed by the blood of the Lamb 

 

God bless Brother

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I think I'm going to be sick. :vomit:

 

2belikeJesus, Let's let folks divide the love of God right out of the Bible while they "have a form of Godliness but deny the power thereof" and you and I can go out into the highways and biways and find someone hungry and alone this week and help them in the name of Christ. I applaud your sensitivity and want to encourage you. I'm going to do it too, I'll let you know how it goes.

 

Folks, do you realize that you can be "right" in your doctrine but wrong in your heart and application, and "wrong" in some of your doctrine but right in heart? What exactly do you think Paul is referring to in I Corinthians 3? Exactly what do you think the definition of a Pharasee was in Christ's day? It was someone who was "right" and "tight" concerning every little jot and tittle of the truth, but devoid of any grace, mercy or love.

 

Anybody else want to join 2belikeJesus and I this week and put your money where your Christianity is?

 

Amen ' l'm with you

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Here in America it's very common to hear Christians say they would help, but...

 

Then comes the excuses...

 

they can apply for food stamps

 

why don't they go find a food pantry

 

they might want more help later

 

why doesn't their family help them

 

I don't know them

 

what about this, that and the other government program

 

 

Well, there are a lot of excuses, but will any of them stand up when Jesus asks us why we didn't show His love towards the ones He put in our path?

Amen brother John

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Of all the topics on this site, I certainly didn't expect this one to generate any controversy.  So are you saying that the church is not held responsible for the care of widows and fatherless children?  That the entire office of the Deacon wasn't created specifically to help with the care of widows?  

 

Acts 6:1-3 (KJV)
1  And in those days, when the number of the disciples was multiplied, there arose a murmuring of the Grecians against the Hebrews, because their widows were neglected in the daily ministration.
2  Then the twelve called the multitude of the disciples unto them, and said, It is not reason that we should leave the word of God, and serve tables.
3  Wherefore, brethren, look ye out among you seven men of honest report, full of the Holy Ghost and wisdom, whom we may appoint over this business.  

 

If I am totally misunderstanding your stance than forgive me, but your questioning whether these verses have been rightly divided is a surprise to me.  

 You know it takes heart to understand some things in Gods word , Thank you for sharing this brother

God bless Brother

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