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Agreement/disagreement With The Pastor


GraceSaved

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I'm in a similar situation now. My present pastor does not use the King James and I feel much the same way. Even though it's much consolation thar my pastor believes in eternal security and isn't a Calvinist, the Southern Baptist dress codes, music, and the use of the per-versions has been getting to me for a long time.

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Can I ask a question to those on here that may read this that hold or have held a pastoral position? How do you feel about members leaving your church and then coming back? How do you go back to a church you've left? Just start showing up again with no explanation of the absence? I feel all this bouncing around from church to church is not a good example to my children, even though I am sincerely trying to settle somewhere. I am considering going back where I used to attend because all this searching is making me think perhaps I should have stayed where I was.

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It could be be a misunderstanding of terms - I have met some who use term "fall from grace" to refer to our fellowship with Christ, not our relationship with Christ. Personally I think this is a wrong use of terms, and potentially confusing.

I have no prOBlem with the thought of meeting to clarify such issues.
I would suggest that both you and your husband go though.

As far as leaving and returning, without knowing the situation, I would suggest that you speak to the pastor about your reasons. That assumes he is approachable of course.
By doing so, you might expose to him an area that he can work on and thereby that ministry can become more honouring to the Lord.

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Dave: I would love for my husband to go and be as involved. He is a wonderful man, provider and father, but unfortunately, he is not spiritually mature and therefore is not fulfilling his spiritual role as he should. I'm sorry to say this is not an option.

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Well, I took the majority of the advice and decided to make an appt. which is on Tue. at my home with the pastor and his wife. I don't want to make any hasty decisions about possibly having to leave without making clarifications. I'm very nervous. I've never met with a pastor before to go over doctrine. Only for weddings and funerals. :) I'll let you all know the outcome. And thanks again for encouragement and advice.

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One more thing. My preparation will consist of all the scripture relating to security and my understanding of those scriptures. I will also list scriptures I am aware of that those who hold to the belief of loss of salvation use so I can be prepared with an answer. If anyone can advise further on how to prepare, I would greatly appreciate it. I know I need to pray, pray, pray. That is no. 1

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The main Biblical arguments against eternal security are found in Hebrews. A systematic outline study of Hebrews can be found in this link:

'?do=embed' frameborder='0' data-embedContent>>  It should be helpful as I have tried to put the teaching in its historical context.

 

A dangerous argument for eternal security was put forward by the late Adrian Rogers e.g. in his sermon "Lot - A disgrace to grace" in which he argued that if you have gone through the "salvation prayer" on the lines of: "Lord Jesus, I admit I am a sinner, & I believe you died for my sins, so I can be forgiven" then you are truly saved. You can live a filthy rotten life (like Lot), but you can't lose your salvation.  

 

I reported that sermon to the radio presenters, we looked it up on line so we could be sure we weren't  misrepresenting him, and the presenters agreed that the teaching was false. If we is truly saved, we will live a godly life & bear the fruit of the Spirit. ( Gal. 5:16-25 ) It is NOT denying eternal security to say that a practising sinner is unsaved, even if they have once professed conversion. True salvation continues in faith. We cannot reassure such a person. They MUST repent. Rev. 3:19

 

But, believers are not immediately perfect. We do sin, and grieve because we sin. Our walk in the Spirit is stumbling & erratic, but we dare not turn away from our Saviour God. 

 

Another argument,also using the salvation prayer, &/or the evangelism that calls for decisions for Christ, is that many of those "saved" do fall away. They were accepted as saved, even joining a church & showing a reformed character for a time, before going back into the world. The parable of the sower tells us to expect this, and to look for enduring fruit. (Mat. 13)  

 

So, am I saying we can be saved & lost again? Certainly NOT. We are born again, children of God. Will God disown his so-loved children? Will he abandon his sheep, the sheep he loved & gave his life for, to the wolves? He whose divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, will not abandon those he has saved. b

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I will share with you what he is going to bring to the table as far as losing your salvation.

 

1. 2 Peter 2:20-21 is used by them. It's taken out of context read the whole chapter, verses 10-19 describes who Peter is talking about.These people changed themselves and were not saved. The key here is a difference of know and believe. James 2:19 shows that knowledge of God doesn't equal salvation. Also the reference to the dog and sow shows that there was no new creation as described in 2 Corinthains 5:17.

 

2. Hebrews 6:4-6 This will prOBably be what he leads out with. This is their key verse of scripture for explaining this. Again read the whole chapter. Notice in verse 9 the transition wrod BUT. This shows a change from one point or topic to another. After the BUT comes beloved. This shows that the writer was talking about someone else. Now using the same book, lets look at Hebrews 4:1-3. Here the writer describes the people that he is talking about in chapter 6. "but the word preached did not profit them" shows that they were NEVER saved to begin with.

 

3. Revelation 22:19  Here is the final and most misunderstood portion of scripture that will be used. This one will take quite a bit of faith and conviction to explain. They use the key part of this verse "God shall take away his part out of the book of life". The main issue with this is that there are more books than just this one. I don't have time or space to explain it here but the principle of what i believe is a dividing difference between the LAMB's book of life and all other books. It's been explained to me that when you are born your name is written in the book of life and when you're born AGAIN it's written in the LAMB's book of life. See Revelation 3:5, Revelation 13:8, Revelation 17:8, Revelation 20:12-15 are just a few of the verses you can study and make your own judgements on concerning this matter.

 

For sake of time and space here are just a few verses on eternal security to help prove your point.

 

Romans 8:38-39

John 17:9-10

John 10:28-29

John 6:51-58

Hebrews 10:12-14

1 Peter 1:23

1 John 2:17

2 John 1:2

 

Also do a word search of everlasting and eternal.

 

Hope these help.

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Covenantor, Would you mind posting a link to that "Lot, a disgrace to grace" sermon? All I found was "Don't be a Disgrace to Grace" in which the WHOLE MESSAGE is exhorting born again Christians to live right and separate from the world and worldly lusts. The message also speaks of different Jesus's which the world loves, and the righteous Jesus which the world hates. Adrian Rogers preached the Jesus who loved all mankind, gave himself for everyone. He was a Godly, sound Bible preacher and YOU don't like him because he plowed down the row of the Calvinist/reformed. Truly born again saved persons, indwelled with the Holy Ghost, CAN fall into sin so bad that God will KILL them...he chastens his own. Furthermore, YOU are presently in sin yourself not only because you teach false doctrine, but because you are falsely accusing a man of God.

Please post it, thanks.

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One more thing. My preparation will consist of all the scripture relating to security and my understanding of those scriptures. I will also list scriptures I am aware of that those who hold to the belief of loss of salvation use so I can be prepared with an answer. If anyone can advise further on how to prepare, I would greatly appreciate it. I know I need to pray, pray, pray. That is no. 1

I posted Bible references in my previous post but let me say this. God made the hard things simple. We have the Holy Spirit and common sense. Most times you can refute some things by asking the right questions. Jesus did this often and it is the most effective way to change someone's way of thinking.

 

For example in the topic at hand I would ask "When you die, are you still the son/daughter of your parents?"  So then "If you're born again, are you a child of God?"   If that is true,"What can change that fact"?   How about this...."Do adopted children have one set of parents or two"?

 

I hope you can use these to edify other believers.

 

Most of all christians, really sit down and meditate on Gods word and let the Holy Spirit gide you and show you some things that make perfect sense.

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