Members MountainChristian Posted August 5, 2014 Members Share Posted August 5, 2014 When was the eleven disciples born again? I have my own idea, I want to hear what you guys and gals say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members No Nicolaitans Posted August 5, 2014 Members Share Posted August 5, 2014 I'm not sure, but I tend to believe they were born again after the Lord appeared to them, and they believed he was truly resurrected. Various scriptures reveal different aspects of their belief (or lack thereof) and their understanding (or lack thereof), so I'm just giving that as a cursory answer without going into the different details of why I have this belief. I will include this though... Luke 24:44-46 44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me. 45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, 46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: I'm not saying that I'm right... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anon Posted August 5, 2014 Members Share Posted August 5, 2014 I think most of them were saved when they OBeyed the original call....except Judas, and possibly Thomas. Peter prOBably got saved when he stated Christ was the Son of God. I feel that way because I imagine they got saved the same as those who got saved before Christ. If Lazarus had stayed dead, and had not seen Christ rise, he would have still been saved due to his belief, I think. And while the disciples doubted, they did not doubt enough to stop following him in the tough life he led, When we get saved....we often get a call to service later. I think the disciples were saved at Jesus' call....but when he rose again, they got their call to service (Peter told to feed the lambs, etc). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members beameup Posted August 5, 2014 Members Share Posted August 5, 2014 Jn 7:39 But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified. Jn 20:22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anon Posted August 5, 2014 Members Share Posted August 5, 2014 Yes but the entire OT was saved without the Holy Ghost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Standing Firm In Christ Posted August 5, 2014 Members Share Posted August 5, 2014 I believe the "breathing" spoken of in John 20 was given as a sign for the Apostles to understand later. In Acts 2, while assembled in the upper room, there came the sound of a mighty rushing wind, along with the Spirit descending upon them. I believe the sond of the mighty rushing was the very same sond they heard when Jesus Christ breathed upon them. And they then knew in the Upper Room they had heard that sound in their recent past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AVBibleBeliever Posted August 5, 2014 Members Share Posted August 5, 2014 It all depends on which Gospel if they were saved before the Resurrection then it was because of the Gospel of the Kingdom in whihc they believe and that included baptism. Peter was still practicing that baptismal addition in Acts 10 when God was foresaking Israel and turning to the Gentiles Acts 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days. Though Peter started with nothing but a kingdom Gospel here, what we do see is he being cut off from saying repent and be baptized as he does in Acts 2. To him it was a sign God was going to be including Gentiles in the kingdom plan. You will also notice Peter does not tell them they get saved by the shed blood of Christ, or that Christ died for their sins in Acts 2 or 10. The resurrection was simply a sign he was the anointed of God. The Gospel of Grace of God always includes Christ death burial and resurrection for the forgiveness of sins and nothing more / nothing less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members No Nicolaitans Posted August 5, 2014 Members Share Posted August 5, 2014 As I've thought on this, I may need to adjust my original thought on this. People were always, are always, and will be always saved by grace through faith. Nathaniel believed (when called) that Jesus was the Christ because Christ showed his omnipresence. Andrew told Peter that they had found the Messias...the Christ. etc... In Christ's great prayer of John 17, he makes it very clear that they already believed (except Judas Iscariot). Perhaps they were born again upon their call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members No Nicolaitans Posted August 5, 2014 Members Share Posted August 5, 2014 Still mulling this over... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Ukulelemike Posted August 5, 2014 Moderators Share Posted August 5, 2014 Except a man be born of the water and the Spirit, he cannot see the kingdom of God. I don't believe they were born again until they had received the Holy Ghost in the upper room. Then, they were empowered by the Holy Ghost on Pentecost, power from on high to do the work of God. One was for the new birth, the other for the power to conduct the business of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anon Posted August 5, 2014 Members Share Posted August 5, 2014 Except a man be born of the water and the Spirit, he cannot see the kingdom of God. I don't believe they were born again until they had received the Holy Ghost in the upper room. Then, they were empowered by the Holy Ghost on Pentecost, power from on high to do the work of God. One was for the new birth, the other for the power to conduct the business of God. Then how did Abraham get saved? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DaveW Posted August 5, 2014 Members Share Posted August 5, 2014 You do realize Mike that is simply a reference to physical and spiritual birth, not the coming of the Holy Spirit? The context makes that contrast plain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Ukulelemike Posted August 5, 2014 Moderators Share Posted August 5, 2014 Dave, how can there be a birth in the Spirit without the Spirit's presence? Kitagrl, I don't know, WHEN was Abraham saved? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anon Posted August 5, 2014 Members Share Posted August 5, 2014 Dave, how can there be a birth in the Spirit without the Spirit's presence? Kitagrl, I don't know, WHEN was Abraham saved? It doesn't matter when....but he didn't have the NT Holy Spirit in him to be a child of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members No Nicolaitans Posted August 5, 2014 Members Share Posted August 5, 2014 Old Testament saint's faith was counted for righteousness...just as our faith is today. The Holy Spirit is a gift to the Church. What I'm wrestling with is the OP...when were the disciples "BORN AGAIN". If we use that interchangeably with "when were they saved", then we have to determine when their faith came into being. Abraham was saved when he believed and put his faith in God's word...just as we do today. He heard God's word, believed it, left his old life behind (repented) and turned to following God. When we are saved, we do the same. Romans 4:9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness. My mind is going to explode just thinking about this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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