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    • By 1Timothy115 in Devotionals
         11
      Psalms 119:1-8                                         Sep. 5 - Oct. 2, 2019
      1 ALEPH. Blessed are the undefiled in the way, who walk in the law of the LORD.
      2 Blessed are they that keep his testimonies, and that seek him with the whole heart.
      3 They also do no iniquity: they walk in his ways.
      4 Thou hast commanded us to keep thy precepts diligently.
      5 O that my ways were directed to keep thy statutes!
      6 Then shall I not be ashamed, when I have respect unto all thy commandments.
      7 I will praise thee with uprightness of heart, when I shall have learned thy righteous judgments.
      8 I will keep thy statutes: O forsake me not utterly.
      The following verse stood out to me...
      5 O that my ways were directed to keep thy statutes!
      At first glance it seemed to me this person’s soul is poured out with intense desire to have God’s direction in keeping His Word.
      I made a small wood fire in our backyard for my granddaughter, Julia, since she would be staying overnight with us. My wife and Julia stayed outside at the fire for about half an hour. Then, I found myself alone to watch the fire die out on a particularly lovely evening. So I took my verse from above and began to repeat it for memorization. As I repeated the verse, I tried to contemplate the words and apply them to what I was seeing around me. 
      The moon and stars were out now peering through the scattered clouds above.
      [Genesis 1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. Genesis 1:17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, Genesis 1:18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.]
      Thought 1         
      The moon has stayed his course since the day God created him, also the stars, obeying the statutes directed by God from the first day they were created. Can you imagine God’s direction to the Moon and stars, “moon you will have a path through the sky above the earth, stars you will occupy the firmament above the moon and be clearly visible in the cloudless night sky.”
      Then, the trees, grass, even the air we breathe obey the statues God gave them from the beginning. None of these creations have souls, none have hearts, none have intelligence, but they all observe God’s statutes, His instructions for their limited time on earth.
      Thought 2
      What if we were like the moon, stars, trees, grass, or the other creations which have no soul? We would be directed to keep God’s statutes without choosing to keep them. This is not the image of God, there would be no dominion over other creatures, or over the earth. We would not be capable of experiencing the joy and peace of learning the love of God
      Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
      Philippians 4:7 And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.
      Thought 3 (October 2, 2019)
      Is the psalmist pleading God to force God’s statutes to become the man’s ways? No, he is speaking of his own failure in keeping God’s statutes and his desire to keep them, very much like Paul in Romans 7:14-25.
      God doesn’t work through force to turn men from their ways that they would desire His statutes or desire God Himself. Men must reject (repent) put aside his own ways and voluntarily seek God and His statutes.

Original Sin/the Sin Nature

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Well, that just answered the questions I was having with how you rendered those verses.

 

It's very compelling. I will have to think upon this

 

It's compelling because it's TRUE. Romans 5:12-21 is not teaching Original Sin. Verse 14 proves that without a doubt. It directly says men from Adam to Moses HAD NOT sinned after the similitude of Adam. 

 

There is another famous verse that shows this as well. Romans 9:11;

 

Rom 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)
 
Original Sin teaches that all men sinned "in Adam". Augustine believed we were all seminally present in Adam's loins and actually participated in his sin when he ate the forbidden fruit. Folks base this on Hebrews 7:9-10;
 
Heb 7:9 And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.
10 For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him.
 
OK, first of all, how many sins had JacOB and Esau committed while they were in their mother's womb according to Romans 9:11? NONE, ZERO, ZILCH, NADA!
 
If you believe that Paul was teaching all men sinned with Adam being in his loins, then you would have to believe that Paul completely forgot this fact when he said JacOB and Esau had neither done good "or evil" in Romans 9:11.
 
I don't really believe Paul under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit would make a mistake like this, do you? 
 
And if Hebrews 7:9-10 is literal, you have opened a real can of worms. Why, because it says Levi paid tithes in his grandfather Abraham's loins, not Adam!
 
That would mean we are not only guilty of Adam's sin, but ALL of our grandfather's sins! 
 
But wait, it gets worse. Was it a sin for Abraham to pay tithes to Melchisedec? NO, it was good! It was an act of righteous worship. So not only would we be guilty of all our grandfather's sins, if our grandfathers believed and were saved, we would be saved too!
 
No, this is the ridiculous "Federal Headship" theory that did not even exist until the 16th century. It has no basis in scripture. 
 
Dr. Hargood also wrote of this ridiculous theory;
 

3. In the seventeenth century Johann Cocceius proposed a different theory of original sin. He taught that God entered into a covenant with Adam as the federal head of the human race. If Adam OBeyed God, all mankind would receive eternal life; but if he disOBeyed, all would be condemned to corruption and death. Since Adam sinned, God imputed his sin to all his descendants. This has been called the Federal Theory of Original Sin or the Theory of Condemnation by Covenant. It has influenced greatly the churches of the Reformed tradition. However, there is not one shred of evidence in the Bible that God ever entered into such a covenant with Adam. The theory was born in Europe, not Eden.
 
 
Original Sin is a false doctrine created by men without a word of support in scripture. This false doctrine has introduced more error into the church than any other such as baptizing babies and the Immaculate Conception. One error leads to another and on and on and on. 
Edited by Winman
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It's compelling because it's TRUE. Romans 5:12-21 is not teaching Original Sin. Verse 14 proves that without a doubt. It directly says men from Adam to Moses HAD NOT sinned after the similitude of Adam. 

 

There is another famous verse that shows this as well. Romans 9:11;

 

Rom 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)
 
Original Sin teaches that all men sinned "in Adam". Augustine believed we were all seminally present in Adam's loins and actually participated in his sin when he ate the forbidden fruit. Folks base this on Hebrews 7:9-10;
 
Heb 7:9 And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.
10 For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him.
 
OK, first of all, how many sins had JacOB and Esau committed while they were in their mother's womb according to Romans 9:11? NONE, ZERO, ZILCH, NADA!
 
If you believe that Paul was teaching all men sinned with Adam being in his loins, then you would have to believe that Paul completely forgot this fact when he said JacOB and Esau had neither done good "or evil" in Romans 9:11.
 
I don't really believe Paul under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit would make a mistake like this, do you? 
 
And if Hebrews 7:9-10 is literal, you have opened a real can of worms. Why, because it says Levi paid tithes in his grandfather Abraham's loins, not Adam!
 
That would mean we are not only guilty of Adam's sin, but ALL of our grandfather's sins! 
 
But wait, it gets worse. Was it a sin for Abraham to pay tithes to Melchisedec? NO, it was good! It was an act of righteous worship. So not only would we be guilty of all our grandfather's sins, if our grandfathers believed and were saved, we would be saved too!
 
No, this is the ridiculous "Federal Headship" theory that did not even exist until the 16th century. It has no basis in scripture. 
 
Dr. Hargood also wrote of this ridiculous theory;
 
 
 
 
Original Sin is a false doctrine created by men without a word of support in scripture. This false doctrine has introduced more error into the church than any other such as baptizing babies and the Immaculate Conception. One error leads to another and on and on and on. 

 

What are the results and ramifications of accepting the doctrine of original sin? 

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What are the results and ramifications of accepting the doctrine of original sin? 

 

Well, most importantly you are blaming God for sin. 

 

Original Sin doesn't even make sense. If God hates sin, why would he curse us to be sinners? That is ridiculous. Calvinism teaches that God cursed us so we lost the free will to do true good. Does that make sense?

 

We put criminals in jail so they cannot continue to go around hurting people and committing more crime. Wouldn't it make more sense if God took away our free will to do evil?

 

I mean, if God really hates sin, why would he curse us so that we MUST sin? 

 

People do not think. 

 

The scriptures nowhere teach that God cursed us to be sinners. Ask folks to show you from scripture, they can't do it. 

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I find this to be the most convincing in favor of the doctrine of original sin/ the sin nature.

the point we must see is that only Adam was responsible for his "original and first sin". None of us were guilty of that first original sin but we got the result of the original sin passed on to us, death.

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There has never been a child born that could instantly speak, much less tell lies which involves "intent"

But I have seen sinfulness at work in infants. 

 

they are growing beings and as such exhibit manipulative selfish ways. 

 

They learn very quickly that when they cry someone will come and pick them up.  Oftentimes they seem to be crying for no reason, they were fed, they are not sick, and they have not dirtied themselves.  They just want to be picked up. 

 

Nothing wrong with that except when you can't get anything done because they kid keeps crying for no reason other than wanting to be picked up. 

 

That is the natural propensity to self centered sin that is in them from birth.

Edited by AVBibleBeliever
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the point we must see is that only Adam was responsible for his "original and first sin". None of us were guilty of that first original sin but we got the result of the original sin passed on to us, death.

 

Physical death, yes, spiritual death, NO. 

 

God does not impute any person's sin to another person. 

 

Eze 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

 

The Jews were forbidden to punish a son for his father's sin and vice versa. If God were to punish us for Adam's sin he would be a hypocrite breaking his own laws! Jesus hated hypocrites. 

 

Deu 24:16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.

 

God said "every man" shall be put to death for his "own sin". Original sin goes completely against God's word. 

 

Yes, all men die physically for Adam's sin, but this is actually a blessing. If God did not cause man to die physically he would live forever in sin. It is the fear of dying that is our greatest incentive to trust in Christ, 

 

Most men are very reluctant to trust in Jesus as it is, imagine if there was no physical death, no man would turn to God. 

 

So in a sense, physical death is good and a blessing toward man. 

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But I have seen sinfulness at work in infants. 

 

they are growing beings and as such exhibit manipulative selfish ways. 

 

They learn very quickly that when they cry someone will come and pick them up.  Oftentimes they seem to be crying for no reason, they were fed, they are not sick, and they have not dirtied themselves.  They just want to be picked up. 

 

Nothing wrong with that except when you can't get anything done because they kid keeps crying for no reason other than wanting to be picked up. 

 

That is the natural propensity to self centered sin that is in them from birth.

 

What you see is the "flesh". The flesh simply wants what it wants. The flesh cannot choose, it simply pulls and tugs us toward sin. The scriptures say Jesus came in the flesh, and that he was tempted in "all points" as we are. Did Jesus have a sin nature?

 

And again, Satan, the fallen angels, and Adam and Eve were all "very good" (Gen 1:31) yet they had lustful desires and were able to sin. So, the fact that we sin does not prove we have a sin nature, only that we have free will. 

 

And God does not hold children accountable until they understand right from wrong. 

 

Deu 1:39 Moreover your little ones, which ye said should be a prey, and your children, which in that day had no knowledge between good and evil, they shall go in thither, and unto them will I give it, and they shall possess it.

 

When the Jews sinned against God, God cursed them so that they would not enter the promised land. But he let the little children enter in, which is a figure of heaven. Why? Because they had no "knowledge" between good and evil in that day that their parents sinned. 

 

So, little children might do wrong, but God does not hold them accountable until they understand their actions. 

 

God spared Nineveh because there were 120,000 little children there who could not discern between their right and left hand, and much cattle. 

 

Jon 4:10 Then said the LORD, Thou hast had pity on the gourd, for the which thou hast not laboured, neither madest it grow; which came up in a night, and perished in a night:
11 And should not I spare Nineveh, that great city, wherein are more than sixscore thousand persons that cannot discern between their right hand and their left hand; and also much cattle?
 
God's question to Jonah implies a YES answer, that God SHOULD spare Nineveh. Why? Because there were more than 120,000 innocent little children who could not discern between their right hand and left hand there. They were no more guilty of sin than the cattle that cannot sin. 
 
Jesus NEVER spoke evil of little children, only good. Jesus told his disciples they must be converted and become as little children to enter heaven. Jesus said little children have angels who always behold his Father's face. 
 
Was Jesus telling his disciples they must become filthy little sinners to enter heaven? Nonsense. Was Jesus teaching that filthy little sinners have guardian angels? Absurd!
 
Mat 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
 
Mat 18:10 Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.

 

People believe the false teachings of Augustine and Calvin who followed him because they do not know the scriptures. Original Sin is total falsehood refuted by MUCH scripture. 

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What you see is the "flesh". The flesh simply wants what it wants. The flesh cannot choose, it simply pulls and tugs us toward sin. The scriptures say Jesus came in the flesh, and that he was tempted in "all points" as we are. Did Jesus have a sin nature?

 

And again, Satan, the fallen angels, and Adam and Eve were all "very good" (Gen 1:31) yet they had lustful desires and were able to sin. So, the fact that we sin does not prove we have a sin nature, only that we have free will. You are believing that Lucifer and his angels were created during the 6 days work of God in Genesis 1:3-31.  I do not believe that they were I believe they were created some time before the earth was. and that would be before Genesis 1:1

 

And God does not hold children accountable until they understand right from wrong.  I believe that children of unsaved couples if they die before the age of accountability will go to hell as their parents will.  Otherwise why would Paul teach that the children of at least one Christian are Holy in  1Cor 7:14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.    hense if they are holy, if they die before accountable age they go to heaven.

 

Deu 1:39 Moreover your little ones, which ye said should be a prey, and your children, which in that day had no knowledge between good and evil, they shall go in thither, and unto them will I give it, and they shall possess it.  self-centered sin/selfishness is sin and it is evident even in children 2 months old

 

When the Jews sinned against God, God cursed them so that they would not enter the promised land. But he let the little children enter in, which is a figure of heaven. Why? Because they had no "knowledge" between good and evil in that day that their parents sinned. 

 

So, little children might do wrong, but God does not hold them accountable until they understand their actions. Scriptures please doing wrong is sin whether they know it or not.

 

God spared Nineveh because there were 120,000 little children there who could not discern between their right and left hand, and much cattle.  NO it does not say 120,000 children but but persons.  it was the total population God was speaking of.

 

Jon 4:10 Then said the LORD, Thou hast had pity on the gourd, for the which thou hast not laboured, neither madest it grow; which came up in a night, and perished in a night:
11 And should not I spare Nineveh, that great city, wherein are more than sixscore thousand persons that cannot discern between their right hand and their left hand; and also much cattle?
 
God's question to Jonah implies a YES answer, that God SHOULD spare Nineveh. Why? Because there were more than 120,000 innocent little children who could not discern between their right hand and left hand there. They were no more guilty of sin than the cattle that cannot sin. 
 
Jesus NEVER spoke evil of little children, only good. Jesus told his disciples they must be converted and become as little children to enter heaven. Jesus said little children have angels who always behold his Father's face. 
 
Was Jesus telling his disciples they must become filthy little sinners to enter heaven? Nonsense. Was Jesus teaching that filthy little sinners have guardian angels? Absurd!
 
Mat 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.  Jesus used the example of a little child because Childern are dependent on their father to provide protect and care for them, he is speaking of an attitude change.  Converted here does not mean to go from one religion to another.  But to change from an attitude of self centered service of self unto a God centered purpose and serve others better before serving yourself   Php 2:3 [Let] nothing [be done] through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves. 
 
 
Mat 18:10 Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.

 

People believe the false teachings of Augustine and Calvin who followed him because they do not know the scriptures. Original Sin is total falsehood refuted by MUCH scripture. 

  If you believe that you can be born and live a life and die not ever hearing about Jesus Christ and God's grace through him and you will not go to hell you are mistaken. 

 

I never said you or anyone else committed original sin.  However because of the original sin Death came upon all men for all have sinned child or adult.  What you are against is that you are born in sin, that is you have a sin nature before you are of the age of accountability.

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  If you believe that you can be born and live a life and die not ever hearing about Jesus Christ and God's grace through him and you will not go to hell you are mistaken. 

 

I never said you or anyone else committed original sin.  However because of the original sin Death came upon all men for all have sinned child or adult.  What you are against is that you are born in sin, that is you have a sin nature before you are of the age of accountability.

 

Show where I ever said such a thing. Do you think it is right for you to put words in my mouth I never said? Is that being honest?

 

Scripture says "death" came upon all men for that all have sinned. It did not say a sin nature came upon all men. Paul could have said that, he used the word "nature" several times in the book of Romans. In fact, Paul said "by nature" the Gentiles do the things contained in the law. Is that evil?

 

Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

 

Your prOBlem is that you have listened to what other people told you, and not read the scriptures. If you read the scriptures you would know that Original Sin is completely false. 

 

Rom 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

 

Here Paul said that homosexuality goes against man's nature. This sin is "unnatural" for men, heterosexuality is "natural". 

 

If men were sinners by nature, the exact opposite would be true, homosexuality would be natural. 

 

If men were sinners by nature, then no one would arrest a person for stealing or murder, as that would be perfectly normal. 

 

People do not think. 

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Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Death came upon all men when Adam introduced sin into the world - because of this all men have sinned.
That is Biblically plain - all men are sinners because Adam sinned, and we are his children.

However;
Gal 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

Notice that His Son was made "of a woman".
The Virgin birth is essential because the Bible indicates that the sin nature is passed through the man - part of God's defined authority structure.
Jesus had no earthly father and therefore no inherent sin nature.

Sin was neither within Him, nor did He sin of Himself.

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This is how I understand it:

 

 

 

There was sin in the world BEFORE Adam.

How do I know? Because the "Serpent" was on the world and he was already a liar, a false teacher, a thief and a murderer. Death passed upon men because a LAW was given and they disOBeyed, namely "Thou shalt not EAT" of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.  When Adam disOBeyed that law, death passed upon him. Read it for yourself......

Romans 5

12Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: 13(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

 

 

We are "shapen in iniquity"

 
Psalmn51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
 
We are all sinners.....
 
Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
 
But we do not "die" until we sin for the first time...

 

 Romans 7: 9For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

 

In conclusion, we are not responsible for ADAM's sin": we are responsible for our own.

 
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Death came upon all men when Adam introduced sin into the world - because of this all men have sinned.
That is Biblically plain - all men are sinners because Adam sinned, and we are his children.

However;
Gal 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

Notice that His Son was made "of a woman".
The Virgin birth is essential because the Bible indicates that the sin nature is passed through the man - part of God's defined authority structure.
Jesus had no earthly father and therefore no inherent sin nature.

Sin was neither within Him, nor did He sin of Himself.

 

This is another false belief unsupported by scripture. 

 

What was the most common name the Jews called Jesus? The SON OF DAVID. 

 

Mat 12:23 And all the people were amazed, and said, Is not this the son of David?

 

The Jews knew the promised Messiah or Christ had to be a physical descendant of David. The scriptures directly tell us that Jesus was made of the "seed of David according to the flesh"

 

Rom 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;

 

The angel that spoke to Mary called David Jesus's "father"

 

Luk 1:30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.

31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.
32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
 
We are told in scripture why Jesus had to be born of a virgin, it was a sign. It has nothing to do whatsoever about preventing Jesus from inheriting a sin nature. 
 
You inherit one half of your DNA from your mother. You inherit one fourth of your maternal grandfather's DNA from your mother. 
 
Jesus inherited David's DNA from Mary his mother. In fact, Jesus inherited Adam's DNA from his mother. This belief that a sin nature is passed down by the father is nothing but medieval superstition. 
 
Acts 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
 
Again, the prOBlem is that Christians listen to all sorts of nonsense from men, and do not read the Bible. If they did they would discover that they have been taught many falsehoods, and would not be deceived. 
 
 
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This is how I understand it:
 
There was sin in the world BEFORE Adam.
How do I know? Because the "Serpent" was on the world and he was already a liar, a false teacher, a thief and a murderer. Death passed upon men because a LAW was given and they disOBeyed, namely "Thou shalt not EAT" of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.  When Adam disOBeyed that law, death passed upon him. Read it for yourself......
Romans 5
12Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: 13(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
 
We are "shapen in iniquity"
 
Psalmn51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
 
We are all sinners.....
 
Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
 
But we do not "die" until we sin for the first time...
 
 Romans 7: 9For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
 
In conclusion, we are not responsible for ADAM's sin": we are responsible for our own.
 
Psalm 51:5 is describing David's mother, not David. Men do no conceive, only women conceive. This scripture says David was conceived in sin. There are several theories on this. 
 
It is known that David had two sisters Zeruiah and Abagail whose father was Nahash the Ammonite. So David's mother had relations with a non-Jew before David was born which was absolutely taboo and forbidden. 
 
1 Chr 2:15 Ozem the sixth, David the seventh:
16 Whose sisters were Zeruiah, and Abigail. And the sons of Zeruiah; Abishai, and Joab, and Asahel, three.
 
2 Sam 17:25 And Absalom made Amasa captain of the host instead of Joab: which Amasa was a man's son, whose name was Ithra an Israelite, that went in to Abigail the daughter of Nahash, sister to Zeruiah Joab's mother.
 
David did not have the same mother as his seven older brothers. His mother was prOBably Jesse's second wife. Jesse and his seven sons treated David very poorly, prOBably because of his mother. When the prophet Samuel held a feast and asked to see all of Jesse's sons, TWICE Jesse failed to present David. The other seven sons were all invited, but David had to keep the sheep. Only when Samuel insisted did Jesse finally present David, whom Samuel chose. We are also told in this story that David's brothers were tall and handsome, while David was short and not handsome.
 
1 Sam 16:5 And he said, Peaceably: I am come to sacrifice unto the LORD: sanctify yourselves, and come with me to the sacrifice. And he sanctified Jesse and his sons, and called them to the sacrifice.
6 And it came to pass, when they were come, that he looked on Eliab, and said, Surely the LORD'S anointed is before him.
7 But the LORD said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart.
8 Then Jesse called Abinadab, and made him pass before Samuel. And he said, Neither hath the LORD chosen this.
9 Then Jesse made Shammah to pass by. And he said, Neither hath the LORD chosen this.
10 Again, Jesse made seven of his sons to pass before Samuel. And Samuel said unto Jesse, The LORD hath not chosen these.
11 And Samuel said unto Jesse, Are here all thy children? And he said, There remaineth yet the youngest, and, behold, he keepeth the sheep. And Samuel said unto Jesse, Send and fetch him: for we will not sit down till he come hither.
12 And he sent, and brought him in. Now he was ruddy, and withal of a beautiful countenance, and goodly to look to. And the LORD said, Arise, anoint him: for this is he.
13 Then Samuel took the horn of oil, and anointed him in the midst of his brethren: and the Spirit of the LORD came upon David from that day forward. So Samuel rose up, and went to Ramah.
 
David was the black sheep of his family, prOBably because of his mother. In Psalm 51 David is prOBably saying he was the "dog" his father and brothers had always told him he was. 
 
If David was saying he was born a sinner, that would hardly be a confession of sin. 
 
 
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Unsupported by the Scriptures?
Hmmmmmm I thought Romans 5:12 and Galatians 4:4 were in the Bible???

I guess I will have to go and look again.....

 

Sure, you can pull scripture out of context and claim it says what it does not say, but that does not prove your view. As I showed earlier, it is a known fact that Augustine used a flawed Latin text that said "in whom all have sinned" in Romans 5:12 which Augustine interpreted to be speaking of Adam. Nearly all Greek scholars admit the Greek does not say this and Augustine's interpretation was error. This is where the doctrine of Original Sin originated. 

 

As Dr. MacGorman, a professor of Greek for over 56 years said;

 

http://peterlumpkins.typepad.com/peter_lumpkins/2013/01/adam-harwood-and-jw-macgormans-dangerous-unorthodox-doctrine-inevitably-leading-to-heresy-if-not-worse.html

 

 

 

1. The Vulgate, a fourth-century Latin translation of the Bible, wrongly translated the last clause of Romans 5:12. Where the Greek text has, "Because all men sinned," the Vulgate rendered, "In whom all sinned." Adam was regarded as the unnamed antecedent of "in whom."
 
2. Upon the basis of this translation error in the Vulgate, Augustine (a.d. 354-430) developed his doctrine of original sin. He taught that all men were seminally present in the loins of Adam when he sinned. Thus he held that the whole human race sinned in Adam's sin. By virtue of our physical descent from Adam, we inherit his guilt. We are born guilty of original sin, according to Augustine. …
Edited by Winman
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Why don't you stick with what the Bible actually says rather than speculating on what you think it means?

When you begin to use "prOBably" in talking about doctrinal issues you step outside of safety an to thin ice.

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I do know the word of God says that if we say we are without/have no sin (and that would mean at anytime in our lives as well as right now this instant) we make God a liar and his word is not in us.

 

1John 1:8, 10 ¶ If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. . . .   If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

 

Also the Bible says this,  Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. before we were ever born God said we were sinners and that Christ dies for us.

 

Is it so hard to see/believe that men are born in sin, that they have a sin nature? 
 

Edited by AVBibleBeliever
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Why don't you stick with what the Bible actually says rather than speculating on what you think it means?

When you begin to use "prOBably" in talking about doctrinal issues you step outside of safety an to thin ice.

You are not responding to what he's saying, you are just basically saying "You are wrong and I am right" , without even defending your position, you are not being honest about debunking his position.

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I do know the word of God says that if we say we are without/have no sin (and that would mean at anytime in our lives as well as right now this instant) we make God a liar and his word is not in us.

 

1John 1:8, 10 ¶ If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. . . .   If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

 

I find this to be a compelling argument for Original Sin.

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Why don't you stick with what the Bible actually says rather than speculating on what you think it means?

When you begin to use "prOBably" in talking about doctrinal issues you step outside of safety an to thin ice.

 

If you stuck with what the Bible said, you would not believe in Original Sin. 

 

We KNOW that David had two sisters who were fathered by Nahash the Ammonite. This was absolutely taboo for a Jewish woman. Psalm 51:5 says David was "conceived" in sin. Men do not conceive, only women conceive, so this verse is speaking of his mother. There was some sin involved when he was conceived, but no one knows exactly what happened.

 

But one thing Psalm 51:5 does not say is that all men are born with a sin nature. It says no such thing, you have to read that into the scriptures. 

 

And Romans 5 refutes Original Sin, verse 14 very specifically says that men from Adam to Moses HAD NOT sinned after the similitude of Adam's sin. 

 

Besides that, if Romans 5 was teaching Original Sin, it would have said ALL MEN, not men from Adam to Moses only. 

 

No, Paul was simply showing that there was a law in the world, even between Adam and Moses, and this is why men from that period spiritually died. They died because they violated the law written on their hearts Paul had told us in Romans 2. 

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