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Original Sin/the Sin Nature


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Winman,

 

I've been respectful towards you, I gave your theory due consideration just as I said. My mind wasn't "made up" when I went into this. This is a matter I had never studied for myself before so I was very open to either side, or another, standing forth as true.

 

There are people here who agree and disagree on a number of things, yet it's Scripture that matters.

 

The most troubling aspect is your insinuation that I lied to you. That's very disrespectful, especially considering I've given you no reason to think such.

 

If I had not given your theory consideration I would have said so openly. Equally, as I stated, had I found your theory biblically sound I would have stated so regardless of how many others agreed or disagreed with you.

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Winman,

 

I've been respectful towards you, I gave your theory due consideration just as I said. My mind wasn't "made up" when I went into this. This is a matter I had never studied for myself before so I was very open to either side, or another, standing forth as true.

 

There are people here who agree and disagree on a number of things, yet it's Scripture that matters.

 

The most troubling aspect is your insinuation that I lied to you. That's very disrespectful, especially considering I've given you no reason to think such.

 

If I had not given your theory consideration I would have said so openly. Equally, as I stated, had I found your theory biblically sound I would have stated so regardless of how many others agreed or disagreed with you.

 

Then show me which scripture convinces you that Original Sin is true. Show it. 

 

You do not seem to grasp the concept that in debate you must provide "evidence" to support your view. To simply say "scripture" proves Original Sin is true is meaningless. Which scripture? How can a person address or answer this scripture?

 

You  are a very poor debater. Present evidence for what you believe. I have presented dozens of verses to support my view, no one has refuted a single verse, other than to say, "you are wrong"

 

Show me this scripture that proves Original Sin. I promise you I can show you that it doesn't support Original Sin. 

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You are not going to provoke me into arguing. Others have already posted the necessary Scripture. There is nothing further to go over unless you have something new to put forth.

 

If you are not going to present evidence for your view, you should back out of the debate and allow those who are serious to debate. 

 

No one can read your mind, no one has an idea which scriptures others showed convinces you that Original Sin is true.

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Winman,

 

Why keep this up? Can't you understand that not everyone is looking to argue or debate? Had I a view to put forth I would have done so. As I clearly stated before, this is a topic I had not previously given any consideration. Therefore, I read with interest the postings here. Then I consulted Scripture. As I previously pointed out, your theory fell short and others have already posted the scriptural evidence of this. Scripturally speaking, the debate is over.

 

My only purpose in posting my original post was to let folks know that while I hadn't been participating, I had been reading and studying. Then I stated my conclusion. Simple as that. Other than prodding for someone to argue with, I don't know why can't accept that.

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It is funny, John, that Winman says your mind is made up,  when it is quite OBvious that his mind is made up. 

You are right.  arguing is futile.

What he presents here on OB is not a Baptist doctrine.

 

The difference is that I have presented dozens of scriptures and went into great detail as to how I interpret them to explain my views. You or anyone else can then respond and explain to me why I am wrong, but no one has. 

 

John 81 on the other hand just makes a blank statement like "scripture refutes you". Is that an argument?

 

If you really believe scripture supports Original Sin, show it. People here have presented Psalm 51:5 and Psalm 58:3 and I have answered why I believe these verses do not prove Original Sin. 

 

Does Psalm 51:5 say all men are born sinners? Nope, it says "I was shapen in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me". This is the type of Hebrew poetry where each phrase is saying the same thing. This verse is simply saying that David's mother was sinning when he was conceived. It doesn't tell us exactly what she was doing, but she was doing something wrong. But it is not saying all men are born sinners, that is a ridiculous interpretation of this verse. 

 

Is Psalm 58:3 saying all men are born sinners? Nope, it is speaking of the "wicked" only. In the same Psalm David speaks of "the righteous". So, he is not saying all men are born speaking lies, but the wicked only. But the trouble is, the whole Psalm is OBvious figurative speech and exaggeration. There has NEVER been a baby born that can speak lies the moment he came out of the womb. Babies are not poisonous like snakes, they do not have huge teeth like lions, and they do not melt like snails. 

 

So Psalm 58:3 is utterly ridiculous scripture to form doctrine on. That was never it's intent. It is OBviously figurative and hyperbole, and should not be taken literally. 

 

See, this is how you answer your opponents in debate. You don't just say "you are wrong", you tell WHY they are wrong. 

 

None of you have done that. 

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Why so much negativity?

 

Where I'm from a simple wave good-bye is just that; simply a wave good-bye. No attempt to make fun.

 

In order to be even more clear, good-bye :wave:

 

What makes you think I'm being negative?

 

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I'm beginning to understand why BB BANNED YOU.

 

They only banned me for a month, because as much as they hate me, I make them think. And I will make you think too. 

 

But if you do not seriously want to learn, I can be MORE inane than you. 

 

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I don't understand why folks get mad when I imitate them. 

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