No Preacher Needed?

[Ukulelemike]

1JOhn 2:27

 

   "But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him."

 

   Doe this verse mean that, so long as one prays and reads their Bible, they have no need to listen to preaching?

 

Many take it this way, and get completely out of church, saying they will hear the Spirit through the word, and have no need for a pastor or a church

 

What do you think?

[No Nicolaitans]

It can't mean that; otherwise, God would be contradicting himself by giving us pastors/teachers.

 

I'll admit that this is a hard passage, but in connecting it with what precedes it, it makes more sense in context.

 

1 John 2:18-29
18   Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
19   They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
20   But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.
21   I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.
22   Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
23   Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
24   Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.
25   And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.
26   These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.
27   But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
28   And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.
29   If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

 

I tried to underline and bold what I see as key passages that helps me understand it. In verse 21, John says that he is writing to them of these things because they already know the truth, not because they don't know it. 

 

This truth is known to them because of the Holy Spirit's inner witness/testimony/teaching (John 14:26). They are to let that truth abide in them, and what is that truth?

 

Though John could have been referring to his entire epistle (I'm not saying he's not), in the immediate context, it concerns false brethren, antichrists, or "them that seduce you" of verse 26. The word "But" of verse 27 ties that verse to verse 26...just as the "But" of verse 20 ties it to verse 19...so they don't need to be taught what to look for in identifying those "that seduce you".

 

Not saying that I'm right, but that's my understanding at this point.

[No Nicolaitans]

Anyone using that as an excuse to leave church has to go against the myriad of verses that command teaching. There are too many to list, but here's just a few.

 

1 Corinthians 14:19
Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.

 

2 Timothy 2:1-2
1   Thou therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus.
2   And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also.

 

1 Timothy 4:11
These things command and teach.

 

2 Timothy 2:24
And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,

 

Hebrews 5:12
For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

 

I think that verse from Hebrews would apply in such situations.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

So, what does one do when the Church doesn't want you and you can't afford to move?

[1Timothy115]

Romans 10:14   How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

 

No, it means the Holy Spirit can and will teach you to understand the Bible. The Spirit of truth will teach you and just in case, the same Spirit in others will help you recognize when you've gone off course. However, if you remain off course from truth others may send you packing. So, go because we're also "not to forsake the assembling"

[prophet1]

So, what does one do when the Church doesn't want you and you can't afford to move?

This is a very real prOBlem, that many thousands of IFB are facing in this generation. They've discovered that the Spirit has pulled the candlestick, leaving a huddled group of man-worshippers, or sex-perverts, or a family business masquerading as a church, or some other reasonable facsimile. This group doesnt want them, they can't bring new baby Christians that they lead to the Lord, to the wolf den, and they can't afford to commute to another area. If the church would send them, they could begin home Bible studies, etc., and launch a new work, a neighborhood away. But the former church, now no longer recognized by God, is jealous, and of course won't authorize competition. So , what does one do? I dare say that this affects more of us than we even dare to count.

[Ukulelemike]

I would say that the authority of a church possibly rejected by God due to misconduct and sin, should not be recognized, and their approval of a home study needs not be sought. I say, if there is no good church in the area and one can't aford to move, begin studies at home with like-minded folks, and if authority is sought, I would seek out a godly IFB church out of thearea, explain the situation and ask for their endorsement. MIght even be able to get them to send out a home missionary if they know there is a congregation waiting for a pastor.

[mkrishna]

So, what does one do when the Church doesn't want you and you can't afford to move?

A possibility would be to contact a good church out of the area and remotely be accountable to them and see if they can assist and pray an opening may come up.

[No Nicolaitans]

I would say that the authority of a church possibly rejected by God due to misconduct and sin, should not be recognized, and their approval of a home study needs not be sought. I say, if there is no good church in the area and one can't aford to move, begin studies at home with like-minded folks, and if authority is sought, I would seek out a godly IFB church out of thearea, explain the situation and ask for their endorsement. MIght even be able to get them to send out a home missionary if they know there is a congregation waiting for a pastor.

 

 

A possibility would be to contact a good church out of the area and remotely be accountable to them and see if they can assist and pray an opening may come up.

 

Both answers are good advice...however...what if one has tried this and no help was given? This isn't a hypothetical situation.

 

I contacted SEVERAL pastors...all who said they were willing to help, offer advice, etc.

 

So, when I pursued further "help" from them, only one of them got back in contact with me...and it was several months after my initial contact...and he hasn't gotten back with me since.

 

It's truly a sad state of affairs when you have someone who wants to start a biblically sound church in an area that is severely lacking, and you can't find a pastor who's actually willing to help. Why do so many pastors talk about the need to start churches in America, but they don't seem interested in helping it happen? It's not money, because I told them up front that I wasn't looking for financial support.

 

Oh well...all in the Lord's timing.

[mkrishna]

Both answers are good advice...however...what if one has tried this and no help was given? This isn't a hypothetical situation.

 

I contacted SEVERAL pastors...all who said they were willing to help, offer advice, etc.

 

So, when I pursued further "help" from them, only one of them got back in contact with me...and it was several months after my initial contact...and he hasn't gotten back with me since.

 

It's truly a sad state of affairs when you have someone who wants to start a biblically sound church in an area that is severely lacking, and you can't find a pastor who's actually willing to help. Why do so many pastors talk about the need to start churches in America, but they don't seem interested in helping it happen? It's not money, because I told them up front that I wasn't looking for financial support.

 

Oh well...all in the Lord's timing.

God understands when we are in this situation, and we cannot say someone is in sin if there is no sound church where someone lives and they don't attend anywhere. Unlike what some false groups believe, being a part of a church does not save us. Much prayer can change things, and when we evangelize, we should be on the lookout for a like minded believer whom we can yolk up with to possibly start a church.

[MountainChristian]

1JOhn 2:27

 

   "But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him."

 

   Doe this verse mean that, so long as one prays and reads their Bible, they have no need to listen to preaching?

 

Many take it this way, and get completely out of church, saying they will hear the Spirit through the word, and have no need for a pastor or a church 

 

What do you think?

Hebrews 10:25

 

I'll throw in the strange answer. During my personal Bible reading time, I don't need a human teacher the Holy Ghost is helping me. It gives the Holy Spirit time to grow me as a son of God into a man of God. All christian men should grow into men of God, not just preachers. 

[DaveW]

I dunno - maybe I'm a bit simple - but I always aligned this with the idea that every saved man can go direct to the Lord without the need of an earthly priest.

In that light, every man can learn direct from God and His Word, but that does not negate the profit of hearing the preaching of the Word.

And of course, it is often implied and stated that every man should study the preaching of his pastor against the Word of God to ensure he is preaching it straight.

[John81]

I know I need the biblical preaching I receive weekly from our pastor.

 

Praise God for pastors who love the Lord, love the flock the Lord has entrusted to them and leads them to growth in Christ through sound biblical preaching!

[Jim_Alaska]

1JOhn 2:27

 

   "But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him."

 

   Doe this verse mean that, so long as one prays and reads their Bible, they have no need to listen to preaching?

 

Many take it this way, and get completely out of church, saying they will hear the Spirit through the word, and have no need for a pastor or a church

 

What do you think?

It has been my experience that anyone that thinks they can do without a church or pastor is usually a loose cannon at best. The ones I have known were not just weak on doctrine, but were also heretical. When we are born again we need guidance, just like a new born baby.

 

Here is one Scriptural instance of why a new born babe in Christ needs church, Pastor and solid New Testament Baptist teaching.

 

 Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
 12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
 13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
 14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

 

Loners of this nature are easily picked off by the wolves. We have many admonitions in Scripture regarding sound doctrinal teaching and the need for it.

 

 Col 2:4  And this I say, lest any man should beguile you with enticing words.
 5 For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ.
 6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:
 7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.
 8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

 

 2Thess 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

 

Just preceding this verse in Thess. you will find the reasons why this is critical to Christians.

 

Personally, I would hate to think where I would be today without the teaching of sound, dedicated, Godly men in the original mission work I was saved in.

 

Likewise, a Christian without this teaching from a Godly pastor or teacher is like a ship without a helm. It goes wherever the winds of circumstance take it.

 

There is no doubt that we cannot do without the guidance and illumination of the Holy Spirit as we study individually, it goes without saying. But the teaching we get from studying under the men of God that he has put in His church is indespensable. Just think of where we would be as Independent Baptists without having had the experience and knowledge passed down to us through the ages by dedicated men of God through His church.

 

Thanks for posting this Mike, it is something that is not addressed much, but should be.

[Anon]

Maybe I'm simplistic....but I've always seen this verse like to mean.......that we don't have to rely on a priest or somebody to tell us what God says. We now have that ability ourselves.

Church is for exhortation and learning and encouraging. So church has very little to do with the ability we have to learn about God on our own. It's not saying we don't need church....it's just saying we don't have to rely on a priest for all spiritual knowledge.