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Dr James Ach

Dorightchristians - King James Onlyism Before Peter Ruckman

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And the discussions are on the whole about the details of matters.

It is generally understood by most on this site that Christ should be the Centre of our lives.

But you go ahead and continue in your belief that you are the only one here who really has the right focus.

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I have told you over our personal messages that I wanted to start a thread on Jesus, you know why? I never hear about Him here. I never hear about His compassion, His mercy, His grace, All I hear is people talk about here is their convictions, their standards, the old paths, but never about Jesus!!!!

I want to hear about God's love for man and how He humbled himself for us!!! and took the cross and attained salvation for His people. THAT is what I never heard about at my IFB church. When I went to my new ministry, the very first service, I admit, I walked in there with my guard up around all these " liberals". I was floored and knocked off my foundation of pride when the message was about the Grace of Christ It was like i heard the Gospel for the first time! I heard brothers and sisters open up to me about the sins they struggle with and the hardness that they experience at times.But their life is focused on one thing, The Gospel I hear/see people hear get wound up over Bible versions and gays and worldliness and not focus on the most important thing, JESUS!!!

Do you realize that it is the goodness of God that leads people to repentance? I get so sick of people bragging on convictions and make everything about themselves. 
I tell everybody here what I told Candle over a PM, Am I a Calvinist? I don't know, I see some of Calvin's points in Scripture, I see some Arminians  views in Scripture, I see Pre-trib, I see Amil,( I always thought that arguing prophesy was a waste of time, because of what will happen will happen and it will be like nOBody expected, Don't believe me, ask the Pharisees, they had the "theological ducks in a row" and look what happened to them.)

All in all, it seems too many here worry about superficial things and not worry about Christ, That's why I left the IFB, and I am not going back!

 

I am patiently waiting for you to start that thread, Jeffrey.   :)  I have no idea what kind of IFB church you went to for all those years.  I doesn't sound like my church, though.  It doesn't sound like the IFB church I went to for four years, and it doesn't sound like the one God will be placing us in a year or so.  

I hear so much teaching on Jesus in my IFB church on His compassion, mercy and grace it is unreal.  I wouldn't go to church if I didn't hear about Him.  God is, once again, building up my church.  People are coming to services.  My pastor is a very merciful man of God.  When we left our other IFB church, came back to our IFB church as visitors, I had a bad fall on the floor of my bedroom.  My husband and I were rushing to get somewhere.  I put on a new pair of shoes, and the wood from the heel of the shoe, hit the hard wood floor (I had washed the floor the day before, so it was still slippery) and I went down.  I had a compound fracture in my shoulder.  I dislocated it, and broke a good sized bone off.  My husband called EMS, because I couldn't make it, without going directly into the hospital without waiting.  Anyway, just as they gave me a shot of Morphine, my pastor (who wasn't even my pastor at the time) came in my hospital room.  He drove 40 minutes across town to tend to me.  I cried so much, b/c he took the time out of his hectic day to come and visit me.  I felt like God had walked into the room.  That is how special it felt to me.  If that isn't showing Jesus's love, compassion, mercy and grace, I don't know what is.  I also received a card from the church with a scripture in it, on healing.  I forget the scripture, but I remember it was from the Book of Jeremiah.  I cried tears of happiness when I read that card.  Again, showing the love of Jesus.  My church also prayed for me as I went through rehab for my shoulder.  It was a long process.

If you can, please private message me the IFB church that you used to attend.  That is, if they have a website.  I would like to look it over.  It sounds like you have been burned, and burned badly.  Just remember what I said about there never being a perfect church.  Man is not perfect, therefore His church isn't going to be perfect.  Also, stay away from things on OB if they make you upset.  If you don't like talking about prophecy, then don't take about it.  Don't even read it, in fact.  I caution you about Calvinism.  I know you are just getting you feet wet.  However, I believe you are walking down a road of confusion.  Try to remember the good things about you IFB church, too.  I am sure you can remember some things, if you don't harden your heart.  Pray for those people who upset you.  You may find that your anger will cease, b/c you have prayed for them.  

"But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you and persecute you." ~ Matthew 5:44   

Last but not least.  Never say never.  I remember, saying at a ladies' Bible study years back, that I would never leave my IFB church.  Shortly thereafter, we left and went to the other IFB church.  Thankfully, we did too.  My mother prOBably would have never got saved had we not attended that church.  She was already being grounded in God's word, but it was through that church she was saved.  My husband also attended the Bible Institute for three years there.  He will finish when we move down the south eastern, OH as that church also has a Bible Institute.

Edited by candlelight

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Feel free, GP. No-one is being stopped from starting threads...


Exactly the point - but instead of doing so, he is doing precisely what he accuses us of doing...........

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...and one more thing while I'm thinking about it...

 

All of this hoopla about "copies, copies, copies". What of it? God promised to preserve his word...and he did it through copies. It would be kind of hard for me, as an American, to have to go to Israel (or wherever) so that I could see God's word in the ONE ORIGINAL MANUSCRIPT! After all, that's the only one we could trust...we sure can't trust that an all-powerful God...who can't lie...would do what he said...and preserve his word and make it available to all.

 

Sorry for the sarcasm, but this gripe about "all we have are copies" doesn't hold water when you compare it to what an omnipotent God can do.

 

Okay...I'm finished now. 

Yes, God forbid that He would actually COMMAND that copies be made: Deut 17:18:

" And it shall be, when he sitteth upon the throne of his kingdom, that he shall write him a copy of this law in a book out of that which is before the priests the Levites"

 

How dare God to expect kings and judges to follow laws from a COPY

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Now for Jeffrey, I'll ask you the same questions that James White keeps dodging about the Codex Sinaiticus:

1. If the correctors of Aleph are supposed to be 4th - 5th century, then explain how a 12th century Islamic prophecy is written in Arabic in the folio of Revelation chapter 7-8 in the footnote?

 

2. If the correctors of Aleph are 4th & 5th century, explain how 9th century miniscules were used in corrections (such as the uncial 'betas' used in Mark 2). Kind of hard to ascribe correctors to the 5th century when there is evidence of styles that were not in use until 400 years later.

 

3. Defend James White's assumption that Aleph was "in much usage" by the earlier churches when there are numerous folios that are written on pure white parchment (and free of any lemon or other whitening process). 

 

I have about 20 more anomalies I could list, but those 3 are smoking guns against the Sinaiticus that James White has refused to answer from us for at least a year now. Why? Because the life of all your modern versions and the veracity of their textual criticism apparatus DEPENDS ON CODEX SINAITICUS, and if just one card falls out, the whole house of Sinaiticus crumbles.

 

And what's funny about James White is that he recently criticized a person for failing to show up on his radio show to debate Molinism (He's also made fun of Ergun Caner for failing to appear for a debate with him). However, White does not hold Constantine Tischendorf (the alleged founder of the Sinaiticus) to the same standard when Tishy failed to show up for a debate with Constantine Simonides who claimed authorship of the document that Tishy was trying to pass off as the oldest mss known to Christendom. Tishy had already once before accused Simonides of fraud when Simonides claimed to have a Greek copy of the Shepherd of Hermes (which ironically was included in Tishy first edition of his Russian copy of the Sinaiticus) and then had to retract his statements and apologize to Simonides. When Simonides publicly challenged Tishy in all of the local media outlets, Tischendorf was a no-show on the day of the debate.

 

By the way, James White in his book on the KJVO Controversy had initially agreed with the commonly held story that Tischendorf found the Sinaiticus in a 'trash can'. It was not until later when this story was challenged that White altered his story to it being found bound in a red cloth carefully guarded by the monks at St. Catherine's. White is a professional liar that his boot licking followers don't pay attention to when he changes his stories.

 

And for the rest of you, pay attention to what the subject was about. It wasn't about Peter Ruckman but about the oft made claims by KJV haters that the KJVO position was started by Ruckman giving the impression that defense of the KJV is some new phenomena.  The quote is simply posted to show that defense of the KJV preceded Peter Ruckman by a long shot.

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And for the rest of you, pay attention to what the subject was about. It wasn't about Peter Ruckman but about the oft made claims by KJV haters that the KJVO position was started by Ruckman giving the impression that defense of the KJV is some new phenomena.  The quote is simply posted to show that defense of the KJV preceded Peter Ruckman by a long shot.

Thank you but we don't need a lecture about paying attention.  Believe it or not, we can all read.  Words back atcha: pay attention to the fact that Ruckman was only discussed for a short time in the thread.  Any part of a post is free game for discussion on a discussion board.

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Thank you but we don't need a lecture about paying attention.  Believe it or not, we can all read.  Words back atcha: pay attention to the fact that Ruckman was only discussed for a short time in the thread.  Any part of a post is free game for discussion on a discussion board.

You're right, I should have limited my admonition toward the people commenting that actually think they know something about the history of the KJV and modern version debates, as opposed to the people that commented who DO know what they're talking about.

It makes no difference how long the discussion lasted about Ruckman, that was not the ONLY thing I said "pay attention" to. I said that the thread was about how long the concept of King James Version Only preceded Ruckman, which has not so far been discussed at length (if at all). You even made the comment earlier on that you did not want to "derail the thread", and yet you did it any way. So you can stop being a hypocrite by telling me what can and can not be up for "discussion" on a "discussion board" when you admitted yourself that threads have a purpose of sticking to the point as per your response in Post #11.

 

Thus if this is how it's going to be from now on every time I post something, at least make sure your arguments and comments have a little bit more weight to them than this one did.

Edited by Dr James Ach

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You're right, I should have limited my admonition toward the people commenting that actually think they know something about the history of the KJV and modern version debates, as opposed to the people that commented who DO know what they're talking about.

It makes no difference how long the discussion lasted about Ruckman, that was not the ONLY thing I said "pay attention" to. I said that the thread was about how long the concept of King James Version Only preceded Ruckman, which has not so far been discussed at length (if at all). You even made the comment earlier on that you did not want to "derail the thread", and yet you did it any way. So you can stop being a hypocrite by telling me what can and can not be up for "discussion" on a "discussion board" when you admitted yourself that threads have a purpose of sticking to the point as per your response in Post #11.

 

Thus if this is how it's going to be from now every time I post something, at least make sure your arguments and comments have a little bit more weight to them than this one did.

I know what you said the thread was about - I can read. Honestly I can.  Yep, I said I didn't want to derail the thread - and the discussion stopped there, so, no, I didn't derail the thread. So there was no need for your admonition - the discussion was done.    My comment had weight and continues to do so.  Whether or not you think so.  

 

Every time you post?  A little paranoid, aren't you?  Mayhap you should make sure your OBservations about my activities are a little more accurate.  

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@James Ach, are you going to answer my question about John 14 from earlier in the post?
Second, I have never read any if White's books other than video's and articles so I don't know much on how he came to his conclusions. Since you claim he dodges the issue, why don't you publicaly challenge him? He claimed on a podcast that most IFB won't debate him , let alone Muslims or Mormons, do you have videos of you debating anyone? I haven't seen anything from you on Google in such matters, only articles written of your crude behavior towards people that you don't agree with. (Nice "testimony"!)
I'm sorry if I offended you by attacking your friend Ruckman but by the article you posted that the individual claimed that the KJV were better than the Greek and Hebrew, if you believe that, then you have a serious issues to deal with!

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You're right, I should have limited my admonition toward the people commenting that actually think they know something about the history of the KJV and modern version debates, as opposed to the people that commented who DO know what they're talking about.

It makes no difference how long the discussion lasted about Ruckman, that was not the ONLY thing I said "pay attention" to. I said that the thread was about how long the concept of King James Version Only preceded Ruckman, which has not so far been discussed at length (if at all). You even made the comment earlier on that you did not want to "derail the thread", and yet you did it any way. So you can stop being a hypocrite by telling me what can and can not be up for "discussion" on a "discussion board" when you admitted yourself that threads have a purpose of sticking to the point as per your response in Post #11.

 

Thus if this is how it's going to be from now on every time I post something, at least make sure your arguments and comments have a little bit more weight to them than this one did.

 

All we see here is a 'bossy' attitude that keeps slamming into people in a mean spirit.

Do you really treat people this way in person?

 

Can you not see that you are so harsh in 'how' you say things to 'fellow' Christians?

 

I saw and read your article with interest, and found it a 'statement', rather than something to discuss.

 

Who here thought that KJVO wasn't before Ruckman? A man I find kinda like yourself in personality.

I have read plenty of articles from Ruckman, and found powerful truths in them, yet his spirit was also

overbearing. To the point of non-Christ like.

 

So for him to be the focus on whether KJVO was before him or not is irrelevent. (to me)

 

Who can see the 'loving' spirit, that the Lord said would identify his children to the world, in your type of 'attitude'?

 

As ignorant as you think I am, I don't see it.

Edited by Genevanpreacher

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I know what you said the thread was about - I can read. Honestly I can.  Yep, I said I didn't want to derail the thread - and the discussion stopped there, so, no, I didn't derail the thread. So there was no need for your admonition - the discussion was done.    My comment had weight and continues to do so.  Whether or not you think so.  

 

Every time you post?  A little paranoid, aren't you?  Mayhap you should make sure your OBservations about my activities are a little more accurate.  

Considering that I have been gone all weekend and today is really some of my first postings in about 4 days, and your very first response to me is sarcastic (after just telling someone else to "cut the sarcasm" in Post #81), I would say that my assumption on how you intend to respond was pretty accurate. But it does appear that with the accusation of "paranoid" you have joined the ranks of the other James White hooligans (some on this board such as Genevan Preacher) that have labeled me a "conspiracy theorist". 

 

Here's a little bit more accuracy about your "activities": you are sympathizing more and more with those who purposely throw around false doctrine on this forum. Of all of the points I made toward Jeffrey, instead of dealing with the issues related to his attack on the KJV and support of modern version, you isolated one part of my comment to be sarcastic about whether or not you had the ability to read. And for the record, I never said you couldn't read (since you adamantly repeated it twice in 2 separate comments), even a 1st grader can read, but that doesn't mean they have enough comprehension to understand how many calories are in a bowl full of modern version soup.

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Wow, what a bunch of pious sounding Palestinians who throw rocks and Molotov cocktails into our living quarters, and then go crying to the UN (in this case, the moderators) about how bad my "attitude" is.

 

You want bad attitude? Take this forum and shove it in between a Catholic Bible like an Apocrypha.

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Considering that I have been gone all weekend and today is really some of my first postings in about 4 days, and your very first response to me is sarcastic (after just telling someone else to "cut the sarcasm" in Post #81), I would say that my assumption on how you intend to respond was pretty accurate. But it does appear that with the accusation of "paranoid" you have joined the ranks of the other James White hooligans (some on this board such as Genevan Preacher) that have labeled me a "conspiracy theorist". 

 

Here's a little bit more accuracy about your "activities": you are sympathizing more and more with those who purposely throw around false doctrine on this forum. Of all of the points I made toward Jeffrey, instead of dealing with the issues related to his attack on the KJV and support of modern version, you isolated one part of my comment to be sarcastic about whether or not you had the ability to read. And for the record, I never said you couldn't read (since you adamantly repeated it twice in 2 separate comments), even a 1st grader can read, but that doesn't mean they have enough comprehension to understand how many calories are in a bowl full of modern version soup.

 

I said you spoke about conspiracies in past postings. I never called you a conspiracy theorist.

And I don't even know James White, nor what he espouses.

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Wow, what a bunch of pious sounding Palestinians who throw rocks and Molotov cocktails into our living quarters, and then go crying to the UN (in this case, the moderators) about how bad my "attitude" is.

 

You want bad attitude? Take this forum and shove it in between a Catholic Bible like an Apocrypha.

Ach is banned.

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Wow, what a bunch of pious sounding Palestinians who throw rocks and Molotov cocktails into our living quarters, and then go crying to the UN (in this case, the moderators) about how bad my "attitude" is.

 

You want bad attitude? Take this forum and shove it in between a Catholic Bible like an Apocrypha.

 

You are about the rudest so-called Christian I have ever met.

And I have met a bunch.

 

By the way, this thread is overtaken by you, and you have made it this.

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By the way, as anyone knows, the apocryphal books are blended in the text of the Catholic bible, and are not placed in the center, like other Bibles of the past.

(with the exception of 1 & 2 Esdras, and The Prayer of Manasseh, which the Catholics do not have in their 'bible')

Edited by Genevanpreacher

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Yet sarcastic comments are allowed on OB?  What's the difference?  IFB's are dropping like flies on a once IFB site.  This site has been turned over to Protestants.  How is anyone that is an IFB supposed to learn more from strong people in the faith like Dr. Ach?

I believe this thread never talked about Peter Ruckman and the KJV, except the first post made by Jeffrey, because so many IFB's have a prOBlem with Ruckman.  

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Yes, sarcasm is allowed - unless it seems to be belittling someone. Vulgarity, however, is not. Telling anyone to shove anything anywhere is simply euphamism for something that is very vulgar. So, third strike and he's out.

Candle, your accusation re protestants is unfounded and untrue. Stop. Feel free to follow his websites if you want to learn from him.

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Yes, sarcasm is allowed - unless it seems to be belittling someone. Vulgarity, however, is not. Telling anyone to shove anything anywhere is simply euphamism for something that is very vulgar. So, third strike and he's out.

Candle, your accusation re protestants is unfounded and untrue. Stop. Feel free to follow his websites if you want to learn from him.


You say it is untrue, and to the full extent of the comment you are right, but it APPEARS as though it is going that way.

I would urge the moderators to be very aware of what is happening in this place.

There ARE false teachers here - some who have been here a long time, but the numbers are growing and the 'sleepers' are growing more aggressive.

I do think James overstepped the mark on that comment but I think there is far more danger on here right now than the moderators as a group appear to be willing to admit.

People HAVE left because of it, James let his frustration at it overflow, and others have contemplated leaving because of it.

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Yes, sarcasm is allowed - unless it seems to be belittling someone. Vulgarity, however, is not. Telling anyone to shove anything anywhere is simply euphamism for something that is very vulgar. So, third strike and he's out.

Candle, your accusation re protestants is unfounded and untrue. Stop. Feel free to follow his websites if you want to learn from him.

 

Many sarcastic comments on OB ARE belittling LuAnne.  So, those are the rules?  If someone reports a person three times, they are automatically banned?  That was never specified in the rules on the forum, when I signed up years ago?  Then, how come others are banned immediately?  I am talking about the SDA people?  I don't mind that they are banned, but rules are rules. 

Also, you didn't say anything about Peter Ruckman.  This thread was about him and the KJV.  Of course the KJV preceded Ruckman.  You posted, after Jeffrey's first post, that you didn't want to derail the thread, when in fact the whole thread was about Ruckman.  I just followed your lead, as not to cause friction.  I should have persisted in knowing more facts.  I would like to know why Ruckman is hated so much by IFB's.  Like I said, I think I know why, but I would like it laid out for me.  Years ago, I never got any specific answers from anyone in the anti-Ruckman camp.  And, as I said before, I am not in anyone's camp but that of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Protestants, who believe in Replacement Theology is a huge prOBlem on OB, HC.  RP is a totally un-biblical thing and shouldn't be discussed on an IFB site.

Yes, I plan on following his blog.  Thank you.  :)   
 

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I should add for the mods - feel free to delete my previous comment if you feel it is not helpful, but I would ask that you discuss the content as a group.

Thinking about it, it may have been better as a PM anyway.......

Regards,

Dave

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I have reported Jeffery but none of the mods have messaged me back. I am very close to leaving this forum for a while unless something is done about the anti Israel, anti King James and pro Calvinist posts. This forum has gone down hill fast. What use to be attractive about this forum was the doctrines that prevailed here compared to other Baptist forums. This no longer appears to be the case and mods are not even responding to reports.

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