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Dorightchristians - King James Onlyism Before Peter Ruckman


Dr James Ach

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If someone isn't satisfied with quotes...read their actual letters. Granted, the quotes make it easy to see their heresy, but you can read their heresy for yourself if you don't trust the quotes. Like any "good" heresy, you'll have to spend some time reading through the stuff that sounds good, but just keep reading...you'll find it. That's what I did, because I wanted to make sure the quotes that I had seen were true.

 

...and these heretics are the ones to thank for the MVs that people like White and Wallace espouse. There might be articles written by those men to refute quotes, but you can't refute their (Westcott and Hort's) own words. If White and Wallace are claiming the actual quotes are wrong...they're flat out lying. 

 

By the way, in my reading of their actual letters, I discovered that some of the quotes were wrong...they had some of the page references wrong, but not the quotes themselves. I don't know if that applies to the quotes that candlelight gave, but the quotes I was reading at the time were wrong on some of their page references.

 

Here's Hort's - https://archive.org/details/lifelettershort00hortuoft

 

Here's Westcott's - https://archive.org/details/brookefosswestco00westuoft

 

 

I believe that the Mohammad garbage was written hundreds of years after the time he supposedly lived and he never really existed.  This would be why so much of what is supposedly said and dictated by him is contradictory.  I also believe the junk about the battles he was in and lots of the information about Muslim conquests written by Muslims is so much junk.  :twocents:

 

 

God bless,

Larry

 

I recently heard that it's been discovered that the Koran was actually taken from Gnostic writings that have been found...again, just like I did with the Westcott and Hort quotes, I want to dig and find out if this is true. 

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I believe that the Mohammad garbage was written hundreds of years after the time he supposedly lived and he never really existed.  This would be why so much of what is supposedly said and dictated by him is contradictory.  I also believe the junk about the battles he was in and lots of the information about Muslim conquests written by Muslims is so much junk.  :twocents:

 

 

God bless,

Larry

 

Irregardless of the timing of the writings, they don't make sense at all!

( have read quite a few of the surahs myself from my own copy)

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What verses are they talking about?
C'mon CL, your better than that! Don't post articles trying to defend your position, quotes are ok, but not articles. For every W/H article you post, I can find a James White or Daniel Wallace article to refute what you posted. And you know what?, I know nOBody here will read them anyway. Let's use our intellect, you are a lot smarter than me, that's for sure!

 
I wouldn't say that, Jeffrey.  You are very intelligent.  If you could get over your beef with the IFB church you attended for years, you would be quite valuable to IFB's everywhere.  Do you think I like everything that my pastor preaches on Sunday?  No, I don't.  However, I know it comes from the KJV.  It's called conviction.  When he preaches, he also gives his opinion, at times.  Do I always agree with him?  No, I don't.  However, there is no perfect church.  You won't find one anywhere on God's earth.  People are not perfect, so how can a church be perfect?  Why not look for another IFB church to attend, rather than go down the road you are going?  It pains me to see IFB's leaving the faith b/c of something that affected you on a personal basis.  Whatever that was.  You have too much to offer, and have invested too much time in the IFB to take the road you are taking now.  We are in need of more warriors that bring people to the saving knowledge of Jesus Christ.  You won't find that knowledge in a Modern Version.  You will find deluded thinking.  The truth is in the KJV and IFB's still hold to the KJV.  You have no prOBlem understanding it.  You have proved that time and time again.  Why not use it, instead of using sloppy seconds?  
   

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If someone isn't satisfied with quotes...read their actual letters. Granted, the quotes make it easy to see their heresy, but you can read their heresy for yourself if you don't trust the quotes. Like any "good" heresy, you'll have to spend some time reading through the stuff that sounds good, but just keep reading...you'll find it. That's what I did, because I wanted to make sure the quotes that I had seen were true.

 

...and these heretics are the ones to thank for the MVs that people like White and Wallace espouse. There might be articles written by those men to refute quotes, but you can't refute their (Westcott and Hort's) own words. If White and Wallace are claiming the actual quotes are wrong...they're flat out lying. 

 

By the way, in my reading of their actual letters, I discovered that some of the quotes were wrong...they had some of the page references wrong, but not the quotes themselves. I don't know if that applies to the quotes that candlelight gave, but the quotes I was reading at the time were wrong on some of their page references.

 

Here's Hort's - https://archive.org/details/lifelettershort00hortuoft

 

Here's Westcott's - https://archive.org/details/brookefosswestco00westuoft

 

 

 

I recently heard that it's been discovered that the Koran was actually taken from Gnostic writings that have been found...again, just like I did with the Westcott and Hort quotes, I want to dig and find out if this is true. 

 Sounds even better, NN.

I have heard the same thing about the Qur'an.  The RCC created Islam, so it is possible.

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What she posted was quotes, Jeffrey.  Quotes by one of the translators for whom all MVs owe their thanks.  Someone who didn't believe in a literal creation, but does think Darwinism is unanswerable - that alone should ring warning bells loudly and clearly.  At the very least intellectually.


Yes Luanne and I asked her what verses they were talking about, did you read what I posted?
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According to the translators of the Bible I use -
                                                        "Their judgement was so corrupted, that they were not likewise affectioned towards him, as he was towards them"
 
 
And I do think that English is the chosen language of the Lord, for these last days.

Can you prove this ?
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Yes Luanne and I asked her what verses they were talking about, did you read what I posted?

Well, now, I would assume that I had read what you posted, since I used some of the same words you did....Let's cut the sarcasm, okay?

 

I even mentioned one of the "verses" - Creation.  But to be exact, he said the first three chapters of Genesis.  All of those quotes are pertinent, even if he doesn't post definite scripture.  I wouldn't trust anything he helped translate...

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Can you prove this ?

 

Why prove it? Look at the world. They pay attention to us. We are the focus of their attention.

God has used the English speaking nations of the Earth to spread the Gospel like no other time in the history of the world, from the 1500's to the 1700's.

When English was used then, the Gospel spread like wildfire, people were 'buying the book' for the first time, because of the printing press invention.

Yes there are other languages that also have 'the word' there, but the majority of those countries are not sending out missionaries, nor did send out missionaries, like the English nations.

I know a bit about history and the scriptures, and God chose 'at such a time as this' in those years to really spread the word of God around the glOBe.

All because the scriptures were printed in the English language.

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Yes Luanne and I asked her what verses they were talking about, did you read what I posted?


What verses?

Did you actually read the quotes?

This goes to the very values of the men who compiled the texts that very nearly ALL MV'S are translated from.
They deny the innerrency of Scripture.
They deny the creation account.

They chose the (corrupt) texts based on their own corrupt beliefs.

It is basically EVERY VERSE in their text that is suspect.
They did not choose their texts on their merit, but according to their own bias.

And by the way, the KEY translators used some words that were already outdated when they used them - because their meaning was unlikely to change over time. Not many but some......
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All of this "prove this" and "prove that"...or..."show me chapter and verse" doesn't amount to anything except what one chooses to believe regardless of "the proof".

 

Earlier, the statement was made that "all versions have their issues". In so saying, one must believe that there is no preserved word of God today.

 

God magnifies his word even above his very name (Psalm 138:2), and his name is so important, that he included taking his name in vain as one of the 10 Commandments...yet...his word is more important than his name? WOW!

 

God promised to preserve his words (Psalm 12:7)...and yes, I realize that people try to claim that's talking about the poor and needy who will be preserved...it doesn't work. He's talking about his words. Study it out. Study the Hebrew MASORETIC grammar (not the Greek Septuagint) and you'll see that it can only be speaking of his words. If it's not, then there's some mighty OLD people walking this earth today since they were kept and preserved from that generation forever...

  1. God wants us to know his word; therefore, we must have it.
  2. He commands us to study his word; therefore, we must have it.
  3. He commands us to rightly divide his word; therefore, we must have it.
  4. God wants us to have faith, and faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God; therefore, we must have it.

Either that, or God is a hard task-master...commanding us to do something that we can't do.

 

What's more, if God expects that of his children...then why, if the manuscripts used to translate MVs are truly God's word...why did God keep those "true" words hidden away from his children for hundreds and hundreds of years in the hands of false religious systems? He expects his children to know, study, rightly divide, and have faith in him through his word, yet he allowed it to stay hidden for hundreds of years? That would be another dirty trick, wouldn't it?

 

Yet, God's children had copies of his preserved word during all of those hundreds of years, and those manuscripts are the ones that the King James was translated from...and God lived up to his promise to preserve his word so that his children could learn, study, rightly divide, and grow in faith from his word.

 

Why are there so many differences between the King James and MVs? Because MVs are translated from entirely different manuscripts that were kept by false religious systems, and two heretics (who were themselves involved in false religious systems) used those manuscripts to produce a Greek text from which all MVs are derived.

 

It doesn't matter how sarcastic James White is...how loud he proclaims his knowledge...or how much he presents his case.  Those are the facts...and no, I won't prove it.  Anyone can do what I did, and investigate it for themselves without bias toward the KJV or MVs. I wanted to know the truth, so I found out for myself.

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NN - I don't suggest it is universal by any means, but I have noticed a correlation between Reformed theology and precisely your points regarding MV'S.

These guys do not in fact believe that we have the perfect Word of God, but that we must "rediscover" it by study and learning and gathering more lost manuscripts. These people tend to want to make their own translations in fact.

As I said, I do not suggest this to be a universal link, but it is one that I have noticed with many of that doctrine.

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...and one more thing while I'm thinking about it...

 

All of this hoopla about "copies, copies, copies". What of it? God promised to preserve his word...and he did it through copies. It would be kind of hard for me, as an American, to have to go to Israel (or wherever) so that I could see God's word in the ONE ORIGINAL MANUSCRIPT! After all, that's the only one we could trust...we sure can't trust that an all-powerful God...who can't lie...would do what he said...and preserve his word and make it available to all.

 

Sorry for the sarcasm, but this gripe about "all we have are copies" doesn't hold water when you compare it to what an omnipotent God can do.

 

Okay...I'm finished now. 

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NN - I don't suggest it is universal by any means, but I have noticed a correlation between Reformed theology and precisely your points regarding MV'S.

These guys do not in fact believe that we have the perfect Word of God, but that we must "rediscover" it by study and learning and gathering more lost manuscripts. These people tend to want to make their own translations in fact.

As I said, I do not suggest this to be a universal link, but it is one that I have noticed with many of that doctrine.

 

...and James White is one of the worst.  He looks to see how many known manuscripts contain a certain verse or word, and if a whole bunch of them have it (even though they're corrupt)...why, then it qualifies in his mind as being part of God's word. But if it's not in a whole bunch of already corrupted manuscripts, then...it might still be the word of God...but...he just can't be sure.

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