Jump to content
  • Welcome to Online Baptist

    Free to join.

Jordan Kurecki

Original Sin And Pelagianism

Recommended Posts

man... another one where Im going to get my head lopped off.

I don't believe we inherit Adams Sin Debt, but we do inherit His nature, thus we WILL sin. We cannot fulfill the law due to our nature.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I didn't say anything about inheriting Adam's sin debt. Why would you get your head lopped off?

not you... and maybe I've just been running around forums with reformed theology folk for a long time, but it will come up. Just watch. :binkybaby:

Edited by Gorship

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You have.. many trains of thought but... (I want to say predominate view, but hey, I could be wrong) is man is Totally Depraved, even non calvinist Baptists will say that from Adams sin, we are born sinners. two 'proof texts' they like are

Psa 51:5  Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

and

Romans 5:12

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is not a calvinist board, although we occasionally have some visitors. That's not to say that calvinist theology doesn't get stuck in the heads of non-calvinists, though. I for one would love to identify any of that stuff that's gotten into my thinking so I can get rid of it!

 

Do we inherit a sin nature from Adam? Certainly. Romans 5 speaks to that. Certainly that sin nature means that we are bent toward sin (Psalm 58:3), and begin sinning right away - even before we are old enough to fully understand it, perhaps. Like Miss Daisy said, anyone with a baby can tell you that!  I do not believe, though, that we are born already condemned because of the debt of Adam's sin. We are told that the son shall not bear the sins of the father (Ezekiel 18:18-20) and shall not be put to death for the sins of his father (Deuteronomy 24:16). God will punish multiple generations who refuse to honor Him, yes, but that is punishing each generation for their own sin. (Deuteronomy 5:9 - "of them that hate me" being the key words.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We were born from the loins of the first man and woman, therefore being of the same

'matter' and 'make-up' we would have done the same 'sin' if we were in the garden.

 

Rebellion is our nature, that's why God gave Adam and Eve a Choice to OBey.

'Original sin' is not actually the sin nature we 'inherited'. We just ...are human.

 

The beautiful part of the garden experience was gonna be the tree of life.

To live in a perfect body, 'in OBedience', voluntarily, forever.

 

We only inherited a so-called sin nature, because we are their offspring,

making us human beings that will always choose the 'easy' way, unless guidance

by God through his word is imbibed into our nature.

 

If they would've OBeyed, voluntarily, there we would be - perfect beings living God's way

in OBedience, voluntarily, forever.

 

So sort of, and yes, respectively.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is not a calvinist board, although we occasionally have some visitors. That's not to say that calvinist theology doesn't get stuck in the heads of non-calvinists, though. I for one would love to identify any of that stuff that's gotten into my thinking so I can get rid of it!

 

Do we inherit a sin nature from Adam? Certainly. Romans 5 speaks to that. Certainly that sin nature means that we are bent toward sin (Psalm 58:3), and begin sinning right away - even before we are old enough to fully understand it, perhaps. Like Miss Daisy said, anyone with a baby can tell you that!  I do not believe, though, that we are born already condemned because of the debt of Adam's sin. We are told that the son shall not bear the sins of the father (Ezekiel 18:18-20) and shall not be put to death for the sins of his father (Deuteronomy 24:16). God will punish multiple generations who refuse to honor Him, yes, but that is punishing each generation for their own sin. (Deuteronomy 5:9 - "of them that hate me" being the key words.)

IF Calvin taught what you just quoted, why would you ever want to get that "out of your head"? 

And particular, what exactly from Calvin do you disagree with? Have you ever read Calvin? Institutes?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Variety of translations is profitable for the finding out of the sense of the Scriptures

 

......Augustine

 

:umno:

 

I started reading Calvin's Institutes once...I made it through about 3 pages.  It was page after page after page after page after page after page page after page after page after page after page after page page after page after page after page after page after page page after page after page after page after page after page page after page after page after page after page after page page after page after page after page after page after page page after page after page after page after page after page page after page after page after page after page after page page after page after page after page after page after page page after page after page after page after page after page page after page after page after page after page after page page after page after page after page after page after page page after page after page after page after page after page page after page after page after page after page after page page after page after page after page after page after page page after page after page after page after page after page page after page after page after page after page after page page after page after page after page after page after page page after page after page after page after page after page page after page after page after page after page after page page after page after page after page after page after page page after page after page after page after page after page page after page after page after page after page after page page after page after page after page after page after page of what I deemed incessant theological ramblings. Why anyone would spend time in that rather than God's word...I don't understand.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

IF Calvin taught what you just quoted, why would you ever want to get that "out of your head"?
And particular, what exactly from Calvin do you disagree with? Have you ever read Calvin? Institutes?


Ohhhhhhhh - how long have you got?

Calvin the man was a seriously nasty piece of work.
History condemns the man.

I have looked and constantly asked supporters of the man to show me his salvation testimony - never found it, never been shown it by any of his supporters.

As to his teachings - some of it is close, but not close enough.
He was a lawyer, and he twists the scriptures the way a lawyer looks for loopholes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Calvin would have been a good Muslim...killing people who didn't agree with his theology and such.

Calvin didnt kill Servetus, he didnt have the authority in Geneva to that kind of thing if he wanted to, heresy was a capital punishment in Geneva at the time and Servetus was tried by the the magisterial council of Geneva

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

:umno:

 

I started reading Calvin's Institutes once...I made it through about 3 pages.  It was page after page after page after page after page after page page after page after page after page after page after page page after page after page after page after page after page page after page after page after page after page after page page after page after page after page after page after page page after page after page after page after page after page page after page after page after page after page after page page after page after page after page after page after page page after page after page after page after page after page page after page after page after page after page after page page after page after page after page after page after page page after page after page after page after page after page page after page after page after page after page after page page after page after page after page after page after page page after page after page after page after page after page page after page after page after page after page after page page after page after page after page after page after page page after page after page after page after page after page page after page after page after page after page after page page after page after page after page after page after page page after page after page after page after page after page page after page after page after page after page after page page after page after page after page after page after page page after page after page after page after page after page of what I deemed incessant theological ramblings. Why anyone would spend time in that rather than God's word...I don't understand.

 2 Tim 1Thou therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus. And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also.

 

God also uses people in our lives and history to teach us also

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Calvin was a murderer.
Calvin was a despot.
Calvin was a dictator.
Calvin was a false teacher.
Calvin was not a faithful man.
Calvin was not a saved man.

His doctrines are not biblically supportable.
His teachings twist Scripture to fit his own ideas.

Edited by DaveW

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

you took the bait...lawyers like to go round and round so much that pretty soon you'll just say "yeah, yeah" to get them to shut up. Every discussion with such a person goes nowhere. We know this. History proves it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 2 Tim 1Thou therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus. And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also.

 

God also uses people in our lives and history to teach us also

 

2 Corinthians 11:14-15
14   And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15   Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Calvin was a murderer.
Calvin was a despot.
Calvin was a dictator.
Calvin was a false teacher.
Calvin was not a faithful man.
Calvin was not a saved man.

His doctrines are not biblically supportable.
His teachings twist Scripture to fit his own ideas.

can you please be specific in what teachings do you disagree with that his doctorines?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nah.
Take your pick.


The onus is on you, I asked you to be specific in what you disagree with Calvin's doctrine.
As for the OP, that would be covered under the T in tulip, mans totally depravity because of Adam's, which we inherited from him

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The onus is on you, I asked you to be specific in what you disagree with Calvin's doctrine.
As for the OP, that would be covered under the T in tulip, mans totally depravity because of Adam's, which we inherited from him

see! I knew it would come up :bday:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Who's Online   0 Members, 0 Anonymous, 54 Guests (See full list)

    There are no registered users currently online

Article Categories

About Us

Since 2001, Online Baptist has been an Independent Baptist website, and we exclusively use the King James Version of the Bible. We pride ourselves on a community that uplifts the Lord.

Contact Us

You can contact us using the following link. Contact Us or for questions regarding this website please contact @pastormatt or email James Foley at jfoley@sisqtel.net

Android App

Online Baptist has a custom App for all android users. You can download it from the Google Play store or click the following icon.

×
×
  • Create New...