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Repentance And How To Properly Share The Gospel

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

In every instance of using the 10 commandments to lead someone to Christ you will create a legalist because the natural progression is if I didn't keep them and am guilty of that then I must keep them after I get saved.

 

This is why Ray Comfort and his Lordship Salvation movement came about from his "Way of the Master Series"

 

Many of the new Yeshua and YAH cults were invented because of the Way to the Master Series.  I know many men who have fallen from grace in this manner.  Beware of using the 10 comandement to convict Gentiles they are not right with God.

 

Paul's word makes it clear that we were without God or the covenants because we were Gentiles (not the people of God).  We come to God through Christ who died for our sins period not that we broke the Law that was given for all Israel on Mr Horeb.

Edited by AVBibleBeliever
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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

I agree with AVBB (to a point, and perhaps AVBB agrees with me, perhaps not) The 10 commandments and using the law as a schoolmaster is good, and a solid way to help some recognize where they stand without Christ. However In my opinion after you have brought them there dictates if your preaching works or not. Ray and the new evangelical movement (paul washer comes to mind) is all about getting clean before you come to Jesus. "you have to repent and turn completely away from your sins, then come to God" is the exact order it always comes out. Repentance and Faith they call it and claim it but it really is preached as Repentance and THEN faith. When in reality, A Repentant heart, is a heart that isn't fully cleansed, but one that has decided to change from what it was, and faith comes alongside, not after or before, but along with, to guide into the arms of the only one who can Cleanse and bring down a path of sanctification (a repentant heart and belief are part of the same "coin" so to speak).

in short -> Sanctification at salvation is no marker of justification. If my level of sanctification proves weather or not I am justified then I am hopeless as the smallest Sin is as filthy as the greatest.

Im sure this is elementary to a lot of older folk around here, but my goodness if Paul washers 'gospel' isn't wildfire amongst those my age in surrounding areas.

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

I agree with AVBB (to a point, and perhaps AVBB agrees with me, perhaps not) The 10 commandments and using the law as a schoolmaster is good, and a solid way to help some recognize where they stand without Christ. However In my opinion after you have brought them there dictates if your preaching works or not. Ray and the new evangelical movement (paul washer comes to mind) is all about getting clean before you come to Jesus. "you have to repent and turn completely away from your sins, then come to God" is the exact order it always comes out. Repentance and Faith they call it and claim it but it really is preached as Repentance and THEN faith. When in reality, A Repentant heart, is a heart that isn't fully cleansed, but one that has decided to change from what it was, and faith comes alongside, not after or before, but along with, to guide into the arms of the only one who can Cleanse and bring down a path of sanctification (a repentant heart and belief are part of the same "coin" so to speak).

in short -> Sanctification at salvation is no marker of justification. If my level of sanctification proves weather or not I am justified then I am hopeless as the smallest Sin is as filthy as the greatest.

Im sure this is elementary to a lot of older folk around here, but my goodness if Paul washers 'gospel' isn't wildfire amongst those my age in surrounding areas.

Self sanctification will not make anyone clean.  At Salvation it is imputed to you through Faith on Jesus Christ, Sanctification, Justification, Righteousness, Holiness and Godliness.  You need only walk in His Spirit or the Holy Ghost to live accordingly.  Gentiles walking in the Spirit will by the Imputed divine nature stay pure, clean and in service to Christ and produce fruit that is not theirs by any amount of works.

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Self sanctification will not make anyone clean.  At Salvation it is imputed to you through Faith on Jesus Christ, Sanctification, Justification, Righteousness, Holiness and Godliness.  You need only walk in His Spirit or the Holy Ghost to live accordingly.  Gentiles walking in the Spirit will by the Imputed divine nature stay pure, clean and in service to Christ and produce fruit that is not theirs by any amount of works.

sounds like we're in agreement :godisgood:

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Did you all even listen to my sermon?

 

I dealt with some of your concerns, I made sure to explain that repentance is not a work that someone must do to be saved and i made it very clear that you do not clean up to get saved.

 

In reponse to AVBB:

 

I have personally used the 10 commandments approach and seen handfuls of people pray to receive Christ: It's biblical and it works, For you to tell us to stop using the Law I consider to be heretical.

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Galatians 3:24-25 (KJV)
24  Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25  But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. 

 

Keep preaching the law brother!  Just make sure they read the next verse as well releasing them from it after they have come to Christ by faith.

 

Bro. Garry

In His will.  By His power.  For His glory.

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Did you all even listen to my sermon?

 

I dealt with some of your concerns, I made sure to explain that repentance is not a work that someone must do to be saved and i made it very clear that you do not clean up to get saved.

 

In reponse to AVBB:

 

I have personally used the 10 commandments approach and seen handfuls of people pray to receive Christ: It's biblical and it works, For you to tell us to stop using the Law I consider to be heretical.

when did I say dont use the law? did you even read my post? dont be so sensitive

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Did you all even listen to my sermon?

 

I dealt with some of your concerns, I made sure to explain that repentance is not a work that someone must do to be saved and i made it very clear that you do not clean up to get saved.

 

In reponse to AVBB:

 

I have personally used the 10 commandments approach and seen handfuls of people pray to receive Christ: It's biblical and it works, For you to tell us to stop using the Law I consider to be heretical.

 

 

when did I say dont use the law? did you even read my post? dont be so sensitive

You must have missed where he went from responding to you and was responding to AVBB 

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Did you all even listen to my sermon?

 

I dealt with some of your concerns, I made sure to explain that repentance is not a work that someone must do to be saved and i made it very clear that you do not clean up to get saved.

 

In reponse to AVBB:

 

I have personally used the 10 commandments approach and seen handfuls of people pray to receive Christ: It's biblical and it works, For you to tell us to stop using the Law I consider to be heretical.

its Biblical!  Ha!  I never read anywhere where Peter or the Eleven or others as well as Paul use the 10 commandments to lead people to Christ.

 

Scripture chapter and verse is needed for it to be Biblical.  Just saying it is Biblical proves nothing. 

 

Show me where in the Bible they used the 10 and so will I.  Until then I preach Christ crucified and his resurrection.  We Gentiles are lost in sin no need for Jewish laws to prove that.

Edited by AVBibleBeliever
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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist
Romans 3:19-20
19   Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20   Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
 
Written to Gentiles...
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No one in the history of mankind has ever been saved without realizing they are lost first. Using the 10 commandments to convince a person they're lost is no different than asking them where will they go when they die, or preaching hell fire and eternity. By the way, if you use Romans road at all when you're witnessing then you are using the 10 commandments you're just not being specific (All have sinned...how do you know that? There's a standard that all have missed. ie. 10 commandments)

 

I have found that the "pray this prayer" method creates shallow christians at times that after the newness wears off they disappear from the church and never show any fruit of being saved. Were they actually saved....only they know.

 

We as fundamental baptist christians need to get away from the mindset that we just lead them to Christ and that's it. Knock on doors, get them saved, and leave them to not be seen or heard from again. With salvation comes a great responsibility to teach them as well.

 

Matthew 28:20, Acts 1:1, Acts 15:35, Acts 18:11, Acts 28:30-31, Colossians 1:28, Colossians 3:16

 

PLEASE understand that I am not suggesting any kind of works salvation, I would just like to see saved individuals become firm in their faith, being well learned in correct doctrine so that body of Christ will grow and be strong.

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Since John dealt with leading Gentiles to Christ while imprisoned on Patmos,

I would look at the qualifications for salvation laid out in John's Gospel

(which was written in 90 A.D. - 20 years following the destruction of the Temple).

 

John 1:12

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become
the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

 

Since John dealt with leading Gentiles to Christ while imprisoned on Patmos,

I would look at the qualifications for salvation laid out in John's Gospel

(which was written in 90 A.D. - 20 years following the destruction of the Temple).

 

John 1:12

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become
the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

 

Keep in the mind that John's Gospel is a supplement to the other 3 Gospels, Repentance is dealt with heavily in the Synoptic Gospels, therefore there is no need for John to stress it as much, John's purpose for writing his Gospel was to show the Deity of Christ and to cause people to turn to him by faith. 

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Keep in the mind that John's Gospel is a supplement to the other 3 Gospels, Repentance is dealt with heavily in the Synoptic Gospels, therefore there is no need for John to stress it as much, John's purpose for writing his Gospel was to show the Deity of Christ and to cause people to turn to him by faith. 

Repentence is "stressed" in the other Gospels since they are aimed at Israel.

The Gospel of the Circumcision involves not only the individual, but the Nation as well.

No National Repentence = No Kingdom on Earth

 

Being written at a much later date, and after all hope was gone for Israel with the destruction of the Temple,

John's Gospel reflects the Gospel to the Uncircumcision (ie: Gentiles).

 

But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me [Paul],
as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;  Galatians 2:7
 
If I were discipling someone after salvation, I would stress how to learn to "walk in the Spirit"
rather than reverting back to the Self/Ego (as was the case before salvation), as otherwise, the Devil
can keep you on a continuous never-ending treadmill of repentance.  See Romans 8
 
 
 
 
Edited by beameup
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Repentence is "stressed" in the other Gospels since they are aimed at Israel.

The Gospel of the Circumcision involves not only the individual, but the Nation as well.

No National Repentence = No Kingdom on Earth

 

Being written at a much later date, and after all hope was gone for Israel with the destruction of the Temple,

John's Gospel reflects the Gospel to the Uncircumcision (ie: Gentiles).

 

But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me [Paul],
as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;  Galatians 2:7
 
If I were discipling someone after salvation, I would stress how to learn to "walk in the Spirit"
rather than reverting back to the Self/Ego (as was the case before salvation), as otherwise, the Devil
can keep you on a continuous never-ending treadmill of repentance.  See Romans 8
 
 
 
 

 

in Acts it says that God commands all men everywhere to repent. 

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in Acts it says that God commands all men everywhere to repent. 

Yes, quite right, a verse from Paul's quite lenghty sermon on Mars Hill (Acts 17).

 

I think that perhaps some misinterpret the meaning to be "penance", which is what the Catholic Church teaches.

 

In regards to Israel (genetic Hebrews):

For the gifts and calling of God are without repentanceRomans 11:29 - same Greek word in a different context.

Edited by beameup
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No one in the history of mankind has ever been saved without realizing they are lost first. Using the 10 commandments to convince a person they're lost is no different than asking them where will they go when they die, or preaching hell fire and eternity. By the way, if you use Romans road at all when you're witnessing then you are using the 10 commandments you're just not being specific (All have sinned...how do you know that? There's a standard that all have missed. ie. 10 commandments)

 

I have found that the "pray this prayer" method creates shallow christians at times that after the newness wears off they disappear from the church and never show any fruit of being saved. Were they actually saved....only they know.

 

We as fundamental baptist christians need to get away from the mindset that we just lead them to Christ and that's it. Knock on doors, get them saved, and leave them to not be seen or heard from again. With salvation comes a great responsibility to teach them as well.

 

Matthew 28:20, Acts 1:1, Acts 15:35, Acts 18:11, Acts 28:30-31, Colossians 1:28, Colossians 3:16

 

PLEASE understand that I am not suggesting any kind of works salvation, I would just like to see saved individuals become firm in their faith, being well learned in correct doctrine so that body of Christ will grow and be strong.

the prOBlem in using the law is this.  You show them the law to worship God and him alone or any of the other laws and convince them they have not Kept them.  they agree get saved and then believe they must keep those laws there after and that is not the truth.

 

Get them Saved, teach them and be an example of how to live by faith in Christ for the word says, Col 2:6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:  Ye were saved by grace through Faith alone and you must learn to live by grace through faith alone.  You must teach through example how to stand strong in the Grace of God and how to produce fruit of that in their lives and teach them how to commit that standing strong in the Grace to others as well. 2Tim 2:1&2 ¶ Thou therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus.   And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also.

 

We must learn and teach how to walk as an anointed one i.e. a Christian, When you walk in the spirit you are walking in the anointing 2Cor 1:21&22 Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God;  Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.  when you do you will produce the fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:16-25 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.  For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.   But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.   Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,  Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,  Envyings, murders, dunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.   But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,  Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.   And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.   If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

 

If we learn this then we will have the mind of Christ that unites us in a way that is powerful Col 3:12-17 ¶ Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;  Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.   And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.   And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful.   Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.   And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

2Co 13:11 ¶ Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you. 

Php 2:1-9 ¶ If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies,  Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.   Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.   Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others.   Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:  Who, being in the form of God, thought it not rOBbery to be equal with God:  But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:  And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became OBedient unto death, even the death of the cross.   Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

 

The prOBlem is many teachers/preachers are not teaching the Word as much as they are teaching their interpretation of it and all the worldliness that goes with it.  Prosperity theology, Replacement theology, Preterest theology even Pre-trib/pre-mellennial theology can usurp Gods word which is to edify the Body of Christ and glorify God.

 

Theology and those major doctrines are good but far better is teaching them how to live a new life in Christ Jesus as an anointed Son of God called to be adopted, forgiven, sanctified, holy and righteous in this world.  the Law does none of that but the Spirit filled life does.

Edited by AVBibleBeliever
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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

 

don't whittle your sword down to the size of needle 

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