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Jordan Kurecki

Why I Have Decided To Change My Music Standards.

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Does your screen name "Gorship" refer to the genre of music by the same name?  By choosing that screen name, are we to assume that you are a fan of that genre?

Correct; PS if thats you in your picture... that beard is so fierce.... its... amazing really.

 

did you watch the videos that I linked to?

No. Havn't had the time (or tbh a ton of interest, he misquoted someone right out of the gate and I was a little leery), was hoping to just make a quick comment and then the flood gates opened)

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You know, I normally keep fairly quiet about this issue - I have my opinions and standards, but I have found this particular discussion rarely ends up being edifying.

 

However, I will put my 2c worth in at this point. (and I fully expect some will give me change.)

 

We can learn certain things from examples in the Bible, and I think there is an example of one musical style that clearly is not honouring to God.

 

Exo 32:17  And when Joshua heard the noise of the people as they shouted, he said unto Moses, There is a noise of war in the camp. 
Exo 32:18  And he said, It is not the voice of them that shout for mastery, neither is it the voice of them that cry for being overcome: but the noise of them that sing do I hear. 
 
Joshua made a mistake here - he mistook the people singing for the noise of war.
 
Now let's think for a moment - what was the noise of war at that time?
Sword against sword, sword or club against shield - generally a wooden shield covered with leather, the sound of people in pain from injuries - screams and groans.
And this was directly associated with their worship of false gods.
 
Now I freely admit that the Bible doesn't anywhere say "though shalt not listen to heavy beats or syncopated beats", but there are principles that are outlined in various places.
 
However - this one thing can not be denied - Joshua heard the people singing and mistook it for a battle. This singing was associated with idol worship. It is a very small step to suggest that music that could mistaken for war is not condoned in God's Word - in fact the only description we have of such music is soundly condemned by the context.
 
What sort of music fits this sort of description.

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I assume that "fierce" was meant as a compliment? Thank you, but I take no credit for my beard. All I did was stop shaving.

As far as this "Gorship" thing goes, I see that the word is a mix of "gore" and "worship" and was coined by a particular Christian death metal band that call themselves "Impending Doom."
 

(link removed by moderators)

 

I read in your profile that you teach the adult Sunday school class at your church. Would you consider playing this for your class and perhaps suggest that it be sung one Sunday as a worship song? Could you, perhaps, provide us with an explanation of why you believe that this is appropriate Christian music and how it glorifies God and also how it edifies us as Christians? To my eyes, this looks and sounds very much like the world, but perhaps you could teach me how it could be viewed as godly. I am always willing to learn.


It was a compliment, no need to be snarky -- I get you all disagree with me, this doesn't mean you need to be rude. I'm getting ready for work, the short answer is I wouldn't use it for corporate worship. As I don't want to offend 1 cor 8:13. I and many others find the lyrics and songs encouraging and helpful, but it's OBviously not for everyone.


Sent from my Z30 using Tapatalk
 

Edited by Salyan

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That's the music you admire and find uplifting and edifying?  How do you even understand the lyrics?

 

 

I got nothing. If a beilever can't see what's wrong with something like this, then no amount of Bible, specific or otherwise, will change your mind.

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mike... why can't you at least be my friend even if you disagree with me... :( so sad.

Yes I find it enjoyable, and uplifting, thought provoking and helps calm me down if I have had a rough day. Im sorry you feel as if I'm closed off to the Bible. I also enjoy Rap, Rock, hymns and everything but country, assuming the lyrics and message is solid and Biblical. However as stated, for corporate worship at church, I think hymns are always a solid choice. I do like mine at a faster beat :)

Anyway, sorry this just went in a big circle,
Jordan G

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You know, I normally keep fairly quiet about this issue - I have my opinions and standards, but I have found this particular discussion rarely ends up being edifying.

 

However, I will put my 2c worth in at this point. (and I fully expect some will give me change.)

 

We can learn certain things from examples in the Bible, and I think there is an example of one musical style that clearly is not honouring to God.

 

Exo 32:17  And when Joshua heard the noise of the people as they shouted, he said unto Moses, There is a noise of war in the camp. 
Exo 32:18  And he said, It is not the voice of them that shout for mastery, neither is it the voice of them that cry for being overcome: but the noise of them that sing do I hear. 
 
Joshua made a mistake here - he mistook the people singing for the noise of war.
 
Now let's think for a moment - what was the noise of war at that time?
Sword against sword, sword or club against shield - generally a wooden shield covered with leather, the sound of people in pain from injuries - screams and groans.
And this was directly associated with their worship of false gods.
 
Now I freely admit that the Bible doesn't anywhere say "though shalt not listen to heavy beats or syncopated beats", but there are principles that are outlined in various places.
 
However - this one thing can not be denied - Joshua heard the people singing and mistook it for a battle. This singing was associated with idol worship. It is a very small step to suggest that music that could mistaken for war is not condoned in God's Word - in fact the only description we have of such music is soundly condemned by the context.
 
What sort of music fits this sort of description.

 

 

:goodpost:  :goodpost:  :goodpost:

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JimsHelpmeet and Joseph Redgate's examples show how far the priority can go for music. Disgraceful in my view...but that's me. 

It truly is disgraceful, and I think it reflects poorly on the preacher's ability to minister to the congregation through the reading, and teaching, of the Word. When you have to use music either as a "filler" or, as in cases of contemporary non-denominational churches and charismatic ones, a means to whip the audience into an emotional frenzy to create a false spirit of being under conviction you have a serious prOBlem. And, in many churches, it's a pride thing. When you have a church that can boast the "choir of 150" or "we have a professional singer at our church" or "everyone who comes here just goes on and on about the music" it does give the church leaders' egos a boost.

 

Congregational hymns should be a way for the body of believers to lift their voices, in one accord, and make a joyful noise unto the Lord. When you're using a good hymn book, the lyrics are usually either straight from the King James Version Scriptures, or at least doctrinally sound. Our church uses the hymnals sold through Sword of the Lord. If you have special music, it should set the tone for the message. It should get people's hearts and minds prepared to receive the sermon. 

 

You can always tell the churches who put more emphasis on musical performance and stage smoke than preaching the Word. All one has to do is read the reviews on their Facebook page. If more than half are in praise of "the awesome music!", be wary.

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JHM...is the hymnal you are using from Sword of the Lord called Soul-Stirring Songs & Hymns?  I have a copy of the 1972 (burgundy) edition before Curtis Hutson had the words of "The Old Account Was Settled" changed in order to remove "repentence" from that hymn.  Here's a little "clip" from a Friday Church News Notes (December 17, 2010):

 

 

From Friday Church News Notes: December 17, 2010 (SWORD OF THE LORD OMITS REPENTANCE FROM SPURGEON SERMON)


Under Hutson’s watch, the Sword also removed repentance from some of the hymns in the 1989 edition of the Soul Stirring Hymns. For example, the lyrics of “The Old Account Was Settled” were changed from “O sinner, seek the Lord, repent of your sin” to “O sinner, trust the Lord, be cleansed of all your sin.”

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JHM...is the hymnal you are using from Sword of the Lord called Soul-Stirring Songs & Hymns?  I have a copy of the 1972 (burgundy) edition before Curtis Hutson had the words of "The Old Account Was Settled" changed in order to remove "repentence" from that hymn.  Here's a little "clip" from a Friday Church News Notes (December 17, 2010):

That is the one, but ours are older. What an odd thing for them to do. I wonder why such an otherwise sound organization remove the word "repentance". Puzzling. 

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That is the one, but ours are older. What an odd thing for them to do. I wonder why such an otherwise sound organization remove the word "repentance". Puzzling. 

Read that entire portion of the Friday Church News Notes from the link I posted.  It pretty much explains why there was a "switch".  The Old Account Was Settled was just one of the hymns where they changed the lyrics to remove repentance. 

 

I'm looking for the original article about Curtis Hutson, but so far, I have not been able to find it.  An IFB pastor had written Sword about that change in lyrics and they said it would be corrected....I don't believe it has....yet.

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In the newer additions of their hymnals they have said the restored the wording. I've not seen one of their newer versions, but they said they made the correction because of so much fallout from repentance and such being removed by Hutson. Of course they claim Hutson only did so to make the songs flow better (or something to that effect), not in trying to downplay repentance.

 

I've had a difficult time trying to understand some of Hutsons thoughts in this area. I've heard and read some of his stuff which seemed to acknowledge the need for repentance, but then in others he seems to say differently. This is why many have put him in the category of "easy believism" or "1, 2, 3, pray after me".

 

Has anyone seen or used the newer version of the Soul Stirring Songs and Hymns?

 

Unfortunately, the only copy I still have is one of those corrupted by Hutson.

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In the newer additions of their hymnals they have said the restored the wording. I've not seen one of their newer versions, but they said they made the correction because of so much fallout from repentance and such being removed by Hutson. Of course they claim Hutson only did so to make the songs flow better (or something to that effect), not in trying to downplay repentance.

 

I've had a difficult time trying to understand some of Hutsons thoughts in this area. I've heard and read some of his stuff which seemed to acknowledge the need for repentance, but then in others he seems to say differently. This is why many have put him in the category of "easy believism" or "1, 2, 3, pray after me".

 

Has anyone seen or used the newer version of the Soul Stirring Songs and Hymns?

 

Unfortunately, the only copy I still have is one of those corrupted by Hutson.

I have the ones that have been changed also. I just wrte in the correct words-lol

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