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Jordan Kurecki

Why I Have Decided To Change My Music Standards.

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http://tbbc.org.au/media/videos/

Watch the series on the Rythym of rock, The Video on the History of Rythym is very mind blowing, 

The Video on Rhythm through Time will blow your mind!!

Also under the series "Music and your church" I would suggest watching the video "Southern Gospel, Rock n ROll, and the Charismatic Connection"

I have changed my stance on music even further, And I am now rejecting Bluegrass Gospel and Southern Gospel because of this information in these videos, and after doing some look into the history of these 2 genres.

I love Southern Gospel and Bluegrass style Gospel, So I hope this says something to you and I hope your willing to take a look into these videos.

The first 4 videos of the Rythym of Rock series are hard to get through, but the education they provide is of great value.

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David Cloud put out an excellent DVD series on music, as well. Congrats on being willing to look seriously on the issue-I had to do the same thing many years ago, but I have known many who poo-poo the whole idea and continue on in the worst out there.

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I have that hymnal on my desk. Used it in the Church I pastored and also in the Church I was a Deacon in in another location. Edited by Standing Firm In Christ

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I was a professional musician for twenty years and had allowed music to be the entirety of my identity. I was also a drug addict and alcoholic. Without going into a long story about it, I came to the realization that I had a sort of addiction to music as well; it had become too important to me. I have since completely eliminated all types of music from my life. The one exception is when I make witnessing videos with the footage of how I refinish antiques. I include tame, instrumental music to prevent the viewer from becoming bored with footage.

I had to do this for a while, as well.
The Lord led me to abstain from music, other than what I sang myself, in church, or out of the hymnals I carried in my car.

I'd say, 10 years or so, I listened to nothing.

Funny, how it all became clear...

Pro 18:1
1 Through desire a man, having separated himself, seeketh
and intermeddleth with all wisdom.


Anishinaabe

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I come from a very musical family-my parents were classically trained, very operatic in style, ad were always the leaders of the music programs in church. We ALL sing, a few play instruments. My sister was offerred an apprenticeship under some piano master in Europe, but she turned it down, but continued to play.

 

At some point in all the singing I did in church, I began to notice in myself a pride and udgmentalism toward other singers. I never sai anything aloud, but inwardly I would critique everything they did, from tone to emotion, even vibrato. And the Lord made clear what I was doing, so I stopped singing in church altogether, at least in choirs or specials, and spent a lot of years in a self-imposed moratorium, and prayed that the Lord might just let me appreciate the spirit behind the singing, to remember it wasn't for me, but for Him, and to glory in Him as I listened.

 

As I consider where I am now, in a church full of people who can't carry a tune in a bucket, I would have been quite useless to Him had I insisted on always high standards in such things. Today I lead the music, but only because, well, as I said above, no one else can, nor wants to, and I Do believe a music leader ought to at least be able to, well, lead music. But we also very much downplay music in the assembly, because I ust don't see it playing a large part in the early church, and I believe it has taken way too bog of a slice of the meeting in many churches, regardless of the type of music.

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For those of you who decided to go through periods of abstaining from music can you give me more information on that.

 

Why did you do it?

 

How did you end up doing it?

 

What have you learned? etc.

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For those of you who decided to go through periods of abstaining from music can you give me more information on that.

 

Why did you do it?

 

How did you end up doing it?

 

What have you learned? etc.

Feel free to read my post above-I believe I answered all your questions.

 

One thing I didn't speak on was my departure from CCM-I was a fan of much of the popular CCM in the mid-late 80's: GLAD, Sandy Patti, First Call, Petra, Stryper, and such. I eventually eft off of it as I noticed that the usic really seemed no different than anything else on the radio, the messages tended to be very weak, and I saw, from time to time, these CCM artists playing the same music as the secular artists, (Ex: "God Gave Rock n Roll To You:, by Petra and KISS). It didn't take a musical genius to see the clear similarities in sounds, beat, dress of the artists, and a slow move by some artists into secular music (Amy Grant). Same sound, same look, same culture, awards, big money, it just wasn't any different. But the Bible tells us to be a holy and separated and sanctified people. So I left it behind.

 

Of course, now we are really seeing more of the fruit-more and more CCM artists 'coming out of the closet', one who recently tried to have his wife murdered, adultery is rampant, their albums are utiizing occultic symbology. POD, (Paid On Delivery) did music for the movei "Little Nicky", an Adam Sander movie about the son of Satan living on earth. It has wicked fruit, and is unabashedly turning more and more secular in nature.

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I'm thankful my pastor is firm on CCM or any variation whatsoever is not allowed. I used to go to a church with the light and sound shows, rock n roll praise, etc. it all became so shallow I finally left. Nothing like the original church leader when church began 10 years earlier.

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I know im going to be hated and beaten for this comment but...

I still have yet to be shown Biblical evidence that a beat can control someone... any issues I have ever read about could be said about poor theology in lyrics (or lack thereof) and a sinful nature/desire... people are quoting jimi hendrix or frank zappa to get their theology? like really?

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There is an order given in the Bible...which I believe shows the importance that God places on each part of an arrangement...

 

1. Melody 

2. Rhythm 

3. Beat 

 

Psalms 68:25
The singers went before1, the players on instruments followed after2; among them were the damsels playing with timbrels3.

 

1 Chronicles 15:16
And David spake to the chief of the Levites to appoint their brethren to be the singers1 with instruments of musick, psalteries and harps2 and cymbals3, sounding, by lifting up the voice with joy.
 
Unfortunately, CCM reverses the order.

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I come from a very musical family-my parents were classically trained, very operatic in style, ad were always the leaders of the music programs in church. We ALL sing, a few play instruments. My sister was offerred an apprenticeship under some piano master in Europe, but she turned it down, but continued to play.

 

At some point in all the singing I did in church, I began to notice in myself a pride and udgmentalism toward other singers. I never sai anything aloud, but inwardly I would critique everything they did, from tone to emotion, even vibrato. And the Lord made clear what I was doing, so I stopped singing in church altogether, at least in choirs or specials, and spent a lot of years in a self-imposed moratorium, and prayed that the Lord might just let me appreciate the spirit behind the singing, to remember it wasn't for me, but for Him, and to glory in Him as I listened.

 

As I consider where I am now, in a church full of people who can't carry a tune in a bucket, I would have been quite useless to Him had I insisted on always high standards in such things. Today I lead the music, but only because, well, as I said above, no one else can, nor wants to, and I Do believe a music leader ought to at least be able to, well, lead music. But we also very much downplay music in the assembly, because I ust don't see it playing a large part in the early church, and I believe it has taken way too bog of a slice of the meeting in many churches, regardless of the type of music.

I'm in this same spot, Brother. I started singing special music in church at the age of 17. This was a large "first Baptist" church. Typical Sunday morning turnout for the first service being around 500 people, with another 80 or so seated in the choir loft. Just being in the choir required passing an audition. The process through which you were granted special status as a soloist was brutal. I was critiqued, ridiculed, critiqued some more. I had to practice an additional hour after choir practice. I had to have all solos approved by the pastor ahead of time, because they had to match the topic of the sermon. One time my track messed up in the sound room and I had a back up cassette tape. I got a tongue lashing after the service for changing the song to something that wasn't "sermon appropriate". I remember after singing a solo one Sunday morning the pastor got up after I sang and said, in front of the entire congregation, "You have potential. I imagine you'd actually have a good voice if you'd take vocal lessons". The music minister once told me if I couldn't stop "sounding like the tornado siren" I would have to be bumped down from 1st Soprano to 2nd. 

 

After singing became such a performance art where perfection was expected of you every single time I got burnt out. I quit singing. I sang a Mother's Day special at a friend's church once when I was 23 as a favor, and didn't sing a solo again until this past Resurrection Sunday. I'm 33 years old. I sing about once every four to five weeks, if we go on a regular rotation. My biggest thing is that I never want my singing to become "The Jennifer Show", especially since my dad is the music leader at our church. It makes me very uncomfortable when I'm approached by people after the service and they gush, "you're the best singer this church has ever had! You should record a CD!" We have a handful of very talented singers who love singing for the Lord. We simply all have different vocal styles, is all. I never, ever want to feel like it did at the big fancy church where the other soloists bore holes into your back with the stink eye the entire time you're singing. It was awful!

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I never, ever want to feel like it did at the big fancy church where the other soloists bore holes into your back with the stink eye the entire time you're singing. It was awful!

 

Wow...what a sad testimony...for that church!

 

Music has its place; however, too many churches "place" it above everything else. I might be wrong, but I'm aware of only one instance in the New Testament where music was part of a "service"...

 

Matthew 26:30 (and Mark 14:26)
And when they had sung an hymn, they went out into the mount of Olives.
 
This was right after the Lord had instituted the Lord's Supper. What's interesting to me is...
  1. They sang after the "service"...not before.
  2. They sang only one hymn.

The "service"...or the words from the Lord...took the precedence.

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Amen to that! At our church we sing three congregational hymns and usually one special, if a soloist is available. We have a choir, but we don't do choir specials. At the big church we did one special call to worship, five congregationals, one hymn was sung while the offering was being collected, we would sing "I'm So Glad I'm a Part of the Family of God" during handshake time, then we would have a choir special, then there would be a solo, then the sermon, we'd sing a hymn of invitation and then sing a closing hymn as everyone filed out. Some hymns would be out of the hymnal, while others were "praise and worship" songs, like "How Majestic is Your Name", "Our God is an Awesome God", or "Lord, I Lift Your Name on High". 

 

There was so much focus on music, I reckon the sermon lasted all of fifteen to twenty minutes.

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I just literally got dizzy reading about the songs you sang at the big church!  :nuts:

 

I had to go back and read it again so I could grasp it all.   :icon_confused:

 

I want to say this before anyone gets the wrong idea...I'm not opposed to music in the church...I just don't think it should take the priority that it has been given.

 

JimsHelpmeet and Joseph Redgate's examples show how far the priority can go for music. Disgraceful in my view...but that's me. 

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Is there anywhere within scripture where music is a command?  If it is not a command, it would be my suggestion, in this day and age, that it be avoided.  If we have to ask ourselves how close to sin we are allowed to get, then maybe it would be best to avoid it all together, so as not to even give the slightest hint of sinning.  

 

Paul tells us in 1 Timothy 6:11 to flee a list of examples and follow after righteousness.  Are we not to flee from the mere hint of unrighteousness?  Unless something is commanded of us, I think it would be much better to abandon it altogether.  This is merely my opinion.

 

There is this...

 

Colossians 3:16
Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.
 
So music can (or should) be used as a method to teach and admonish others...which begs the question why some churches aren't more discerning concerning their music. Whatever their music choice or style, whether they realize it or not, they are "teaching" the hearers...but what are they teaching them?  :scratchchin:

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Thank you for posting that verse.  Now, my question is, "Is that a command?" Is that something that would be wrong to omit, or is it a suggestion similar to how Paul promotes the idea of being single?  I know that vocal inflections cannot be heard within text, so I hope I do not sound like I am being difficult.  I am honestly wanting to know.

 

Good question...hmmm...

 

At my present understanding, it seems to me that he is saying to do it, so that can be viewed as a command. Whether it's an actual command or a strong encouragement...I don't know.  I would lean toward it being a command just for the fact that we are told to do it, but I'm not going to be dogmatic about it.

 

Sorry to be so wishy-washy on it...maybe someone else has studied this more than I and can give a better answer.

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