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Why I Have Decided To Change My Music Standards.


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So I supose there's no place for common sense and OBservational evidences in Christianity? oh man, someones grumpy, lets go through this

 

Bible doesn't condemn smoking, so its alright. Bible says the body is a temple, thus we should take care of it.

 

Bible doesn't condemn LSD, so it must be alright. Bible says to stay sOBer minded...

 

We can SEE the effects certain kinds of music have-there are both visual and measurable effects of certain types of music. I can tell how, in playing music in nursing homes, that many kinds of music produce no effect in some patientsa, while old hymns will bring recognition to some of their eyes and minds. There have been studies, as has been mentioned before. Conjecture and ones personal experience is not scriptural otherwise doctrines would be running wild in the church because of our emotional bias... oh wait... that is happening LOL.
 

 

We can also see how listening to, and adhereing to, certain types of music, whether 'Christian" or secular, can have a rebellious effect of people. 

Dan Luicarini tells of how his church moved into CCM, and as the older members, people who had built that church, who had worked through the heat of the day for the Lord, disliked it, and their attitude was that the old people were welcome to leave if they didn't like their music. That's rebellion. That speaks to the members attitudes, not the music.

 

I had a man in one of my services who was visiting for his granddaughter's baptism-he is, ostensibly a Christian, older than myself, (I'm 50). he liked CCM. In my sermon, I made a side comment about CCM, but it wasn't the subject of my lesson, nor did I spend more than perhaps 10 words on it, yet he stewed the rest of the sermon, and afterward, came directly to the pulpit, poked his finger in my chest, (literally), and said, "Listen, dude! you can't show me anywhere in the Bible where it says CCM is bad!" and he turned around and stalked out and sat in his car until his family was ready to leave. Not coloring outside the lines here.  All I have ever seen in the result is rebellion, adults acting like kids when someone dares to say there might be something wrong with it. Again this speaks to a persons attitude, not what the music is or isnt.

 

The clear issue is one of sanctification and holiness. The Lord told Moses and Aaron, after the deaths of Nadab and Abihu, "I will be sanctified in them that come nigh me, and before all the people I will be glorified." (Lev 10:3) Nadab and Abihu attempted to serve the Lord in the manner of the Egyptian priests, by waving their censers of incense before God-but they weren't commemded to do so, nor were they supposed to offer incense in censers at all-that was the pagan method of worship. They wanted to serve God in a pagan, secular manner. This is exactly what people do when they use the wicked music styles of the world, those associated with rebellion and sex, (the very term rock and roll means sex), is an unsanctified manner of worship. We are to be seaprated and sanctified and holy before the Lord, not sounding and acting like the world. Im not arguing that the music should honor God. It very well should.

 

The Bible doesn't need to be specific-it says enough about sanctification and holiness that it shouldn't take a genius to see that rebellious, violent, sexual, sensual music styles, that have enough of a history to see that clearly, if one chooses to open their eyes, does not glorify God-it glorifies man, and attratcs our flesh. Im guessing your calling me dumb? not very nice from 'staff' of this website.  Still would like a chapter and verse that explains how specific musical genres effect us physically/spiritually...Chapter and verse please.

come now, you must be able to do better than that.

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come now, you must be able to do better than that.

No I wasn't calling you dumb, but I am tempted to due to your comment:

 

Still would like a chapter and verse that explains how specific musical genres effect us physically/spiritually...Chapter and verse please.

If I may direct your attention to your answer to my first couple points on cigarettes and LDS, you took Bible principles and applied them to things that it doesn't specifically SAY. Then, in the area of music, you seem incapable of doing the same thing. Rather,myou MUST have chapter and verse that speaks about different music genres, when said genres didn't exist-thus we have no choice but to take general biblical principles and apply them.

 

Now, I'm not saying that there weren't different types of national musics-but that is hardly a genre. The issue I have with CCM is it is specifically designed to sound like secular music styles, which are faddish and driven completely by cultural popularity-this is why it continually changes; it is NOT driven by what might please God but what pleases men. Iy is driven by the flesh, and not even that of believers, but unbelievers, who design the styles according to what sells, then the CCM artists follow after them. It is ever-changing and always shifting, according to the lusts of the flesh, but we will try to make it palatable to a Holy God. It is, and always HAS been, about inciting rebellion in the listeners. That was the stated goal by the earliest writers and performers-not my opinion. Its how it was designed, and rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft.. 

 

Now, consider holiness: what does it mean? In the Hebrew it means apartness, holiness, sacredness, separateness; Holy, separate, apart. How,tell me, is music specifically imitating secular worldly, rebellious music styles to be considered holy? The very fact that it seeks intentionally to sound like the popular secular music styles, with again, the spoken intention of using it to draw people to Christ who like those kinds of music, makes it, by definition, UNholy. How can we go before God, who is holy, bearing an unholy sacrifice of praise? How is it any different than Nadab and Abihu approaching God after the manner of the Egyptian priests? They weren't MEANING to worship false gods, but God Almighty-they just did it in an unholy manner and gave Him that which was abominable.

 

Now, you feel free to worship God with whatever pleases you, whatever makes you feel good-I don't expect to change your mind any more than you will change mine, but when all one needs to do is open their eyes to see the wicked fruit of contemporary music and CCM, and yet many still insist there's nothing wrong with it, well, you just gotta do what you gotta do. I'm not your pastor and you don't have to listen to me, but I have seen the fruit of CCM, as well as secular contemporary music, and I'll have no part of it.

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No I wasn't calling you dumb, but I am tempted to due to your comment:
I see your one of those "loving" Christians
 

If I may direct your attention to your answer to my first couple points on cigarettes and LDS, (LSD) you took Bible principles and applied them to things that it doesn't specifically SAY. Then, in the area of music, you seem incapable of doing the same thing (Its not an incapability but rather there are no texts given to me yet to draw these conclusions from.). Rather,myou MUST have chapter and verse that speaks about different music genres, when said genres didn't exist-thus we have no choice but to take general biblical principles and apply them. Which is fine, and I'm still waiting for stronger verses than given, every anti CCM person here, just assumes its evil and thus uses "anti evil" scriptures, this is poor logic and reasoning.

 

Now, I'm not saying that there weren't different types of national musics-but that is hardly a genre. The issue I have with CCM is it is specifically designed to sound like secular music styles There are secular quartets, and orchestras and singing groups... Christianity doesn't hold an exclusive right on a "Genre", which are faddish and driven completely by cultural popularity-this is why it continually changes; it is NOT driven by what might please God but what pleases men This is conjecture, there are bad apples everywhere, but to state an entire group of people who play music that you dont like ALL just want to please themselves and not God... really?. Iy is driven by the flesh, and not even that of believers, but unbelievers, who design the styles according to what sells, then the CCM artists follow after them. It is ever-changing and always shifting, according to the lusts of the flesh, but we will try to make it palatable to a Holy God. It is, and always HAS been, about inciting rebellion in the listeners. That was the stated goal by the earliest writers and performers-not my opinion. Its how it was designed, and rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft.. 

 

Now, consider holiness: what does it mean? In the Hebrew it means apartness, holiness, sacredness, separateness; Holy, separate, apart. How,tell me, is music specifically imitating secular worldly, rebellious music styles to be considered holy? As stated Christians don't have a hold on a genre for themselves. How does one determine if God dislikes a music style, tone and beat are not breathing beings, what we use those tones and sound waves for and how we use them depicts their "morality". The very fact that it seeks intentionally to sound like the popular secular music styles, with again, the spoken intention of using it to draw people to Christ who like those kinds of music, makes it, by definition, UNholy. This I dont disagree with, Bait and switch is dumb, if anyone is trying to sound like a particular group to lure them into church and then drop the Bible bomb on them and get them saved is being dumb. However I cant fault a genuine Christian expressing their Love for Christ using a certain pitch/Tone/beat/volume, these things do not have their own "life" its how we "puppeteer" them so to speak.How can we go before God, who is holy, bearing an unholy sacrifice of praise? How is it any different than Nadab and Abihu approaching God after the manner of the Egyptian priests? They weren't MEANING to worship false gods, but God Almighty-they just did it in an unholy manner and gave Him that which was abominable.

 

Now, you feel free to worship God with whatever pleases you, whatever makes you feel good-I don't expect to change your mind any more than you will change mine, To start off with such veracity and then quit at the end is saddening. but when all one needs to do is open their eyes to see the wicked fruit of contemporary music and CCM, and yet many still insist there's nothing wrong with it, well, you just gotta do what you gotta do. Ah yes, the theological "do what you gotta do". I'm not your pastor and you don't have to listen to me,Your not my pastor, but you are a Brother in Christ and I respect you, I wish you would return the respect. but I have seen the fruit of CCM, as well as secular contemporary music, and I'll have no part of it. I respect this position, and take no issue with it. 90% of CCM I think is watered down garbage, However theologically accurate music, despite the "Genre" used to help reach the lost, I wont start chopping away at because I feel like "it doesn't speak to me personally". One of the questions with any song (or album if its a concept album or something) I decide to listen to is, "overall; who is getting the Glory" I may even skip getting an artists album because I feel like they kinda flopped one. I take no stance to be honest, most CCM music is really bad, but some hip hop artists are preaching the Gospel in-front of thousands... what a mission field! I see no reason to write them off.

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Does your screen name "Gorship" refer to the genre of music by the same name?  By choosing that screen name, are we to assume that you are a fan of that genre?

Correct; PS if thats you in your picture... that beard is so fierce.... its... amazing really.

 

did you watch the videos that I linked to?

No. Havn't had the time (or tbh a ton of interest, he misquoted someone right out of the gate and I was a little leery), was hoping to just make a quick comment and then the flood gates opened)

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You know, I normally keep fairly quiet about this issue - I have my opinions and standards, but I have found this particular discussion rarely ends up being edifying.

 

However, I will put my 2c worth in at this point. (and I fully expect some will give me change.)

 

We can learn certain things from examples in the Bible, and I think there is an example of one musical style that clearly is not honouring to God.

 

Exo 32:17  And when Joshua heard the noise of the people as they shouted, he said unto Moses, There is a noise of war in the camp. 
Exo 32:18  And he said, It is not the voice of them that shout for mastery, neither is it the voice of them that cry for being overcome: but the noise of them that sing do I hear. 
 
Joshua made a mistake here - he mistook the people singing for the noise of war.
 
Now let's think for a moment - what was the noise of war at that time?
Sword against sword, sword or club against shield - generally a wooden shield covered with leather, the sound of people in pain from injuries - screams and groans.
And this was directly associated with their worship of false gods.
 
Now I freely admit that the Bible doesn't anywhere say "though shalt not listen to heavy beats or syncopated beats", but there are principles that are outlined in various places.
 
However - this one thing can not be denied - Joshua heard the people singing and mistook it for a battle. This singing was associated with idol worship. It is a very small step to suggest that music that could mistaken for war is not condoned in God's Word - in fact the only description we have of such music is soundly condemned by the context.
 
What sort of music fits this sort of description.
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I assume that "fierce" was meant as a compliment? Thank you, but I take no credit for my beard. All I did was stop shaving.

As far as this "Gorship" thing goes, I see that the word is a mix of "gore" and "worship" and was coined by a particular Christian death metal band that call themselves "Impending Doom."
 

(link removed by moderators)

 

I read in your profile that you teach the adult Sunday school class at your church. Would you consider playing this for your class and perhaps suggest that it be sung one Sunday as a worship song? Could you, perhaps, provide us with an explanation of why you believe that this is appropriate Christian music and how it glorifies God and also how it edifies us as Christians? To my eyes, this looks and sounds very much like the world, but perhaps you could teach me how it could be viewed as godly. I am always willing to learn.


It was a compliment, no need to be snarky -- I get you all disagree with me, this doesn't mean you need to be rude. I'm getting ready for work, the short answer is I wouldn't use it for corporate worship. As I don't want to offend 1 cor 8:13. I and many others find the lyrics and songs encouraging and helpful, but it's OBviously not for everyone.


Sent from my Z30 using Tapatalk
 

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That's the music you admire and find uplifting and edifying?  How do you even understand the lyrics?

 

 

I got nothing. If a beilever can't see what's wrong with something like this, then no amount of Bible, specific or otherwise, will change your mind.

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mike... why can't you at least be my friend even if you disagree with me... :( so sad.

Yes I find it enjoyable, and uplifting, thought provoking and helps calm me down if I have had a rough day. Im sorry you feel as if I'm closed off to the Bible. I also enjoy Rap, Rock, hymns and everything but country, assuming the lyrics and message is solid and Biblical. However as stated, for corporate worship at church, I think hymns are always a solid choice. I do like mine at a faster beat :)

Anyway, sorry this just went in a big circle,
Jordan G

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You know, I normally keep fairly quiet about this issue - I have my opinions and standards, but I have found this particular discussion rarely ends up being edifying.

 

However, I will put my 2c worth in at this point. (and I fully expect some will give me change.)

 

We can learn certain things from examples in the Bible, and I think there is an example of one musical style that clearly is not honouring to God.

 

Exo 32:17  And when Joshua heard the noise of the people as they shouted, he said unto Moses, There is a noise of war in the camp. 
Exo 32:18  And he said, It is not the voice of them that shout for mastery, neither is it the voice of them that cry for being overcome: but the noise of them that sing do I hear. 
 
Joshua made a mistake here - he mistook the people singing for the noise of war.
 
Now let's think for a moment - what was the noise of war at that time?
Sword against sword, sword or club against shield - generally a wooden shield covered with leather, the sound of people in pain from injuries - screams and groans.
And this was directly associated with their worship of false gods.
 
Now I freely admit that the Bible doesn't anywhere say "though shalt not listen to heavy beats or syncopated beats", but there are principles that are outlined in various places.
 
However - this one thing can not be denied - Joshua heard the people singing and mistook it for a battle. This singing was associated with idol worship. It is a very small step to suggest that music that could mistaken for war is not condoned in God's Word - in fact the only description we have of such music is soundly condemned by the context.
 
What sort of music fits this sort of description.

 

 

:goodpost:  :goodpost:  :goodpost:

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