Paul Chappell - Are You A Servant Leader Or Simply A Ministry Manager?

[RSS Robot]

It is all too easy to allow the responsibilities of leadership to morph into the routines of management.

Management, of course, is necessary for leaders. We manage projects and coordinate efforts to match them. Good leadership includes wise structures of management. But make no mistake about it, leadership is more than management.

Leadership—especially spiritual leadership—involves shepherding people. It involves connecting hearts with the life-changing truths of God’s Word. This requires a Spirit-filled leader with a heart large enough for people. It requires a leader who sees management as necessary to leadership but not defining of leadership.

In what ways, then, does a spiritual leader serve through their position as a leader? There are many, but these four are crucial to any work for God:

1. Servant leaders serve by providing an example in ministry.

Those things, which ye have b

ot

h learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, do: and the God of peace shall be with you.—Philippians 4:9

It is not enough to say, “Do as I say.” Servant leaders must live a Christian life that is worthy of emulation. None of us are perfect, and every leader should be seeking to become more like Christ every day. But we should be able, with a clear conscience, say, “Do as I do.”

This applies not only to our lifestyle but also to our zeal for the Lord and our involvement ministry. The best leadership is not done from a desk or an armchair but with those we lead and serve.

2. Servant leaders serve by providing support in ministry.

And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the sai

nt

s, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:—Ephesians 4:11–12

As kids, we envision leadership as a chance to be in the limelight. We think recognition and leadership are synonyms. The truth is, leadership is about enabling others. As a pastor, for instance, I want to see our church family succeed in their Christian walk. I want to see members grow in their walk with God, their marriages, their family life, their Christian witness—in every way. My goal is to lead and equip them in these ways.

What does practical support in ministry look like? In my case, it includes writing notes of encouragement, making visits, preparing and preaching messages with doctrinal truths and practical applications. In short, it means equipping the saints for the work of the ministry.

3. Servant leaders serve by providing structure in ministry.

Take heed therefore u

nt

o yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.—Acts 20:28

Spiritual leaders—particularly pastors—are to be overseers of the flock. This oversight which we are to provide necessitates order—structure. We are to, as Paul wrote to Titus, “set in order the things that are wanting” (Titus 1:5).

Structure requires both delegation and inspection. As we first equip others in the work of the ministry, we delegate responsibilities to other leaders in the church. These may be Sunday school teachers, ushers, staff, or deacons. Whatever the case, in order to delegate, we must always be developing new leaders according to the pattern of 2 Timothy 2:2.

The second component to structure is inspection. Because a leader is ultimately responsible as the overseer, it is vital that we have pre-determined checkpoints to provide accountability and continued training.

4. Servant leaders serve by confronting indifference in ministry.

Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.—Revelation 2:4

One of the most difficult—and therefore perhaps the most neglected—aspects of leadership is lovingly confronting those who are slipping. Sometimes confrontation is needed to address work and/or character flaws in a staff member. Sometimes it is needed to challenge a church member in your Sunday school class or sphere of influence to renew their heart for God. Always, it requires sensitivity to and the filling of the Holy Spirit as well as careful compassion in your timing and approach.

By this list—providing an example, providing support, providing structure, and confronting indifference—are you a servant leader? Or are you simply managing the status quo?

I’ve primarily used pastoral examples in this post because I am a pastor! But all four of these points apply to spiritual leadership in any form—parenting, teaching, youth work, individual areas of ministry oversight, and many more. In whatever position you lead or influence, don’t let yourself slip into ruts of simply managing responsibilities. Lead by serving others!

Related posts:

1. Growth Points 014: A Servant Leader Has One Altar
2. 3 Characteristics of a Servant Leader
3. The Spiritual Leader

View the full article

[prophet1]

Nowhere does the Scripture say that a pastor is an overseer of a flock.

Anishinaabe

[swathdiver]

What then is your definition of a pastor and an overseer and a flock?

[prophet1]

What then is your definition of a pastor and an overseer and a flock?

God's definition.

Act 20:17
17 And from Miletus he sent to Ephesus, and called the elders of the church.

1Ti 4:14
14 Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery.

Phi 1:1
1 Paul and Timotheus, the servants of Jesus Christ, to all the saints in Christ Jesus which are at Philippi, with the bishops and deacons:

How about the Scriptural plurality of elders?

"Pastor" isn't even found in the singular in the NT.
'Pastor' is a spiritual gift, not an office.

Bishop is the office, and it's always plural.

Act 20:28
28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

This is addressing the presbytery of Ephesus.



Anishinaabe

[MountainChristian]

Anishinaabe, what about in the old testament, the book of Jeremiah?

[prophet1]

Anishinaabe, what about in the old testament, the book of Jeremiah?

What about it?

The shepherds of Israel?

Has nothing to do with the NT Churches.

Anishinaabe

[DaveW]

God's definition.

Act 20:17
17 And from Miletus he sent to Ephesus, and called the elders of the church.

1Ti 4:14
14 Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery.

Phi 1:1
1 Paul and Timotheus, the servants of Jesus Christ, to all the saints in Christ Jesus which are at Philippi, with the bishops and deacons:

How about the Scriptural plurality of elders?

"Pastor" isn't even found in the singular in the NT.
'Pastor' is a spiritual gift, not an office.

Bishop is the office, and it's always plural.

Act 20:28
28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

This is addressing the presbytery of Ephesus.



Anishinaabe

 

You love to put up this false argument.

 

An argument from silence is no argument..

 

There is NO SCRIPTURE WHICH DESIGNATES THE NUMBER OF PASTORS THAT A CHURCH MUST HAVE TO BE A SCRIPTURAL CHURCH.

 

In places of leadership, God has often used a single man to lead, so the precedent is set in God's leadership plan.

 

And your continual harping on about the plural use of the words is not absolute - some of those uses are speaking of multiple churches.

 

The ONLY way you can push your line with authority is if you present a verse that says that a single Pastor is not acceptable.

 

ANY half decent student of language will simply not accept your twisting of this issue.

 

There are plenty of examples of multiple pastors, but there is no restriction stated, nor even implied on single pastors.

 

And there are indications that Timothy pastored alone, Titus also, and also Epaphras, as indicated by:

Col 1:7  As ye also learned of Epaphras our dear fellowservant, who is for you a faithful minister of Christ; 

 

These are INDICATIONS of single pastors, not statements - BECAUSE THERE ARE NO STATEMENTS as to how many Pastors a church should have.

 

And I have studied this out - in depth., before you go accusing me of not knowing or not studying.

 

Your absolute exclusion of the possibility of a single pastor for a church is biblically unsupportable.

[prophet1]

You love to put up this false argument.

An argument from silence is no argument..

There is NO SCRIPTURE WHICH DESIGNATES THE NUMBER OF PASTORS THAT A CHURCH MUST HAVE TO BE A SCRIPTURAL CHURCH.

In places of leadership, God has often used a single man to lead, so the precedent is set in God's leadership plan.

And your continual harping on about the plural use of the words is not absolute - some of those uses are speaking of multiple churches.

The ONLY way you can push your line with authority is if you present a verse that says that a single Pastor is not acceptable.

ANY half decent student of language will simply not accept your twisting of this issue.

There are plenty of examples of multiple pastors, but there is no restriction stated, nor even implied on single pastors.

And there are indications that Timothy pastored alone, Titus also, and also Epaphras, as indicated by:
Col 1:7 As ye also learned of Epaphras our dear fellowservant, who is for you a faithful minister of Christ;

These are INDICATIONS of single pastors, not statements - BECAUSE THERE ARE NO STATEMENTS as to how many Pastors a church should have.

And I have studied this out - in depth., before you go accusing me of not knowing or not studying.

Your absolute exclusion of the possibility of a single pastor for a church is biblically unsupportable.

You are studying with a preconceived bias, blinded to the Truth in front of you.


1Ti 5:17-22
17 Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.
18 For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward.
19 Against an elder receive not an accusation, but before two or three witnesses.
20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.
21 I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou OBserve these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality. 22 Lay hands suddenly on no man, neither be partaker of other men's sins:keep thyself pure.

If you read this passsage, without the Nicolaitan bias, you will understand why God said this (to this church):

Rev 2:6
6 But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.


"with out preferring one before another"

Sounds like:

1Co 14:29-31
29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.
30 If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace.
31 For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.

Churches that elevate one elder to headship, cut off the true head, Christ.

Timothy was "charged" not to do this.
There is not one shred of a hint of evidence that any church prior to this had a "lead pastor".
Timothy's church was commended by God for keeping this charge, in Rev. 2.

But, you can't see that, trying to look cool, reading with sunglasses on.

Anishinaabe

[DaveW]

You are studying with a preconceived bias, blinded to the Truth in front of you.


1Ti 5:17-22
17 Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.
18 For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward.
19 Against an elder receive not an accusation, but before two or three witnesses.
20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.
21 I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou OBserve these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality. 22 Lay hands suddenly on no man, neither be partaker of other men's sins:keep thyself pure.

If you read this passsage, without the Nicolaitan bias, you will understand why God said this (to this church):

Rev 2:6
6 But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.


"with out preferring one before another"

Sounds like:

1Co 14:29-31
29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.
30 If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace.
31 For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.

Churches that elevate one elder to headship, cut off the true head, Christ.

Timothy was "charged" not to do this.
There is not one shred of a hint of evidence that any church prior to this had a "lead pastor".
Timothy's church was commended by God for keeping this charge, in Rev. 2.

But, you can't see that, trying to look cool, reading with sunglasses on.

Anishinaabe

 

Well, there is no need to be rude and accusatory about it.

 

You presented no proof of a command against singular leadership, and refuted none of those I mentioned.

 

Your accusation of "Nicoalaitanism" needs some sort of support rather than just a blind statement of your opinion on what the prOBlem was there.

 

Your premise that Paul was talking to a particular church in 1 Timothy is also false - Paul was writing to a particular MAN.

In that very passage Paul does talk about the LABOURER (Note singular) - an illustration yes, but singular nonetheless.

 

Revelation 2:6 does not denote the deeds of the Nicolaitans as singular leadership at all.

 

Rev 2:1  Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks; 

Rev 2:2  I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars: 

Rev 2:3  And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted. 

Rev 2:4  Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love. 

Rev 2:5  Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent. 

Rev 2:6  But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate. 

Rev 2:7  He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God. 

 

I don't see anything in there that designates the deeds of the nicolaitans in the way you suggest.

 

 

1Co 14:29-31 is not particularly speaking about Pastors/ Elders/ Bishops - it is not at all relevant to the issue.

 

"Churches that elevate one elder to headship, cut off the true head, Christ.

Timothy was "charged" not to do this.
There is not one shred of a hint of evidence that any church prior to this had a "lead pastor".
Timothy's church was commended by God for keeping this charge, in Rev. 2"

 

How about you give some sort of Biblical support for this statement - ANY SORT of biblical support will do.

 

 

"You are studying with a preconceived bias, blinded to the Truth in front of you."

 

And

 

"But, you can't see that, trying to look cool, reading with sunglasses on."

 

Yes there is a preconceived bias involved here, but it is not me.

 

And your rude, arrogant, false accusations are neither God honouring, nor the sort of thing that should come from the keyboard of a servant of the Lord.

 

Mat_15:18  But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man. 

 

You ignored the implications of Colossians 1:7, which indicate a singular man as the servant of the Lord to that church.

 

And there is also:

Phm 1:1  Paul, a prisoner of Jesus Christ, and Timothy our brother, unto Philemon our dearly beloved, and fellowlabourer, 

Phm 1:2  And to our beloved Apphia, and Archippus our fellowsoldier, and to the church in thy house: 

 

The church is in the house of Apphia and Archippus, but the fellowlabourer is Philemon, to whom this latter is addressed.The context clearly indicates that Philemon is the Pastor of this church. And if you want to suggest that Philemon was co pastor with Archippus, then get ready to defend female pastors, because the church is in the house of Apphia and Archippus. If Archippus is a co-pastor then so is Apphia - and Apphia is a feminine name.......

 

1Ti 4:6  If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained. 

1Ti 4:7  But refuse profane and old wives' fables, and exercise thyself rather unto godliness. 

1Ti 4:8  For bodily exercise profiteth little: but godliness is profitable unto all things, having promise of the life that now is, and of that which is to come. 

1Ti 4:9  This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation. 

1Ti 4:10  For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe. 

1Ti 4:11  These things command and teach. 

1Ti 4:12  Let no man despise thy youth; but be thou an example of the believers, in word, in conversation, in charity, in spirit, in faith, in purity. 

1Ti 4:13  Till I come, give attendance to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine. 

1Ti 4:14  Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery. 

1Ti 4:15  Meditate upon these things; give thyself wholly to them; that thy profiting may appear to all. 

1Ti 4:16  Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee. 

 

This whole section is speaking to TIMOTHY ALONE and certainly speaking to him in the singular - there is not one little hint that he was working in this church and situation with any other "co-pastor".

 

That there are examples of multi-pastor churches is not in dispute. Of course there were and are.

 

But to suggest that Bible ABSOLUTELY EXCLUDES a single pastor church is utter, total, and unbiblical nonesense.

 

 

To be perfectly frank, I am utterly sick and tired of you promoting a false standard as doctrine, when you refuse to answer the passages quoted, and continually misrepresent passages which simply do not say what you tell us they say.

And you apparently go unchallenged on this false teaching.

 

THERE IS NO PRESCRIBED NUMBER, EITHER MAXIMUM OR MINIMUM, of Pastors for a church to be a Biblical church.

 

If the church is small, and there is no provision for extra pastors, then a single pastor is entirely acceptable.

If a church is large enough, or there is ample provision of scripturally qualified men, then more than one pastor is also fine - and my opinion preferable.

BUT NOT POSITIVELY PROSCRIBED IN SCRIPTURE.

 

Until you can give solid Biblical support for your false assertion that a single Pastor church is unbiblical I will challenge you on it every time.

 

And it doesn't matter to me how rude, abusive, or denigrating you get to me over it.

 

So set yourself into your study and come up with something better than this dishwater theology that you are splashing around on this matter.

 

Do it right, or stop doing it.

[prophet1]

First, show where we are commanded to elevate 1 man in the church above the other elders.

If you can't, then anything that shows other than this, is automatically a disqualifier of this.

Jelly on the bottom shelf.

If something cannot be proved, but can be disproved, it isn't truth.

Acts 20, Phil. 1, ITim., and the other passages I posted disprove singular bishop leadership.

There is no passage that proves singular bishop leadership.

Call it "pastor", and you confuse the issue, as pastor is a gift, not an office.

Timothy was sent to a church with a presbytery leadership.
He wasn't put over them.
To say he was, is to see things that aren't there.


Anishinaabe

[prophet1]

Well, there is no need to be rude and accusatory about it.

You presented no proof of a command against singular leadership, and refuted none of those I mentioned.

Your accusation of "Nicoalaitanism" needs some sort of support rather than just a blind statement of your opinion on what the prOBlem was there.

Your premise that Paul was talking to a particular church in 1 Timothy is also false - Paul was writing to a particular MAN.
In that very passage Paul does talk about the LABOURER (Note singular) - an illustration yes, but singular nonetheless.

Revelation 2:6 does not denote the deeds of the Nicolaitans as singular leadership at all.

Rev 2:1 Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;
Rev 2:2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:
Rev 2:3 And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted.
Rev 2:4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
Rev 2:6 But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.
Rev 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

I don't see anything in there that designates the deeds of the nicolaitans in the way you suggest.


1Co 14:29-31 is not particularly speaking about Pastors/ Elders/ Bishops - it is not at all relevant to the issue.

"Churches that elevate one elder to headship, cut off the true head, Christ.
Timothy was "charged" not to do this.
There is not one shred of a hint of evidence that any church prior to this had a "lead pastor".
Timothy's church was commended by God for keeping this charge, in Rev. 2"

How about you give some sort of Biblical support for this statement - ANY SORT of biblical support will do.


"You are studying with a preconceived bias, blinded to the Truth in front of you."

And

"But, you can't see that, trying to look cool, reading with sunglasses on."

Yes there is a preconceived bias involved here, but it is not me.

And your rude, arrogant, false accusations are neither God honouring, nor the sort of thing that should come from the keyboard of a servant of the Lord.

Mat_15:18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.

You ignored the implications of Colossians 1:7, which indicate a singular man as the servant of the Lord to that church.

And there is also:
Phm 1:1 Paul, a prisoner of Jesus Christ, and Timothy our brother, unto Philemon our dearly beloved, and fellowlabourer,
Phm 1:2 And to our beloved Apphia, and Archippus our fellowsoldier, and to the church in thy house:

The church is in the house of Apphia and Archippus, but the fellowlabourer is Philemon, to whom this latter is addressed.The context clearly indicates that Philemon is the Pastor of this church. And if you want to suggest that Philemon was co pastor with Archippus, then get ready to defend female pastors, because the church is in the house of Apphia and Archippus. If Archippus is a co-pastor then so is Apphia - and Apphia is a feminine name.......


1Ti 4:6 If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained.
1Ti 4:7 But refuse profane and old wives' fables, and exercise thyself rather unto godliness.
1Ti 4:8 For bodily exercise profiteth little: but godliness is profitable unto all things, having promise of the life that now is, and of that which is to come.
1Ti 4:9 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation.
1Ti 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
1Ti 4:11 These things command and teach.
1Ti 4:12 Let no man despise thy youth; but be thou an example of the believers, in word, in conversation, in charity, in spirit, in faith, in purity.
1Ti 4:13 Till I come, give attendance to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine.
1Ti 4:14 Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery.
1Ti 4:15 Meditate upon these things; give thyself wholly to them; that thy profiting may appear to all.
1Ti 4:16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

This whole section is speaking to TIMOTHY ALONE and certainly speaking to him in the singular - there is not one little hint that he was working in this church and situation with any other "co-pastor".

That there are examples of multi-pastor churches is not in dispute. Of course there were and are.

But to suggest that Bible ABSOLUTELY EXCLUDES a single pastor church is utter, total, and unbiblical nonesense.


To be perfectly frank, I am utterly sick and tired of you promoting a false standard as doctrine, when you refuse to answer the passages quoted, and continually misrepresent passages which simply do not say what you tell us they say.
And you apparently go unchallenged on this false teaching.

THERE IS NO PRESCRIBED NUMBER, EITHER MAXIMUM OR MINIMUM, of Pastors for a church to be a Biblical church.

If the church is small, and there is no provision for extra pastors, then a single pastor is entirely acceptable.
If a church is large enough, or there is ample provision of scripturally qualified men, then more than one pastor is also fine - and my opinion preferable.
BUT NOT POSITIVELY PROSCRIBED IN SCRIPTURE.

Until you can give solid Biblical support for your false assertion that a single Pastor church is unbiblical I will challenge you on it every time.

And it doesn't matter to me how rude, abusive, or denigrating you get to me over it.

So set yourself into your study and come up with something better than this dishwater theology that you are splashing around on this matter.

Do it right, or stop doing it.

I quoted the passage where Timothy was charged not to elevate a single elder above the rest and you can't see it.
Those are the same elders that Paul addressed, and charged, as a group, to oversee the Flock at Ephesus in Acts 20.

I post Scripture continually. You are a liar, when you say that I do not.


Act 20:
17 And from Miletus he sent to Ephesus, and called the elders of the church.

28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

1Ti 1:3
3 As I besought thee to abide still at Ephesus, when I went into Macedonia, that thou mightest charge some that they teach no other doctrine,

1Ti 5:19-21
19 Against an elder receive not an accusation, but before two or three witnesses.
20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.
21 I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou OBserve these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality.

Rev 2:
1 Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;

6 But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.


Same Church...Ephesus
Same Timothy...left in Ephesus
Same Presbytery leadership, commended in Rev. 2.

Same blind Nicolaitans today.

Anishinaabe

[DaveW]

And still not one of those proves single leadership to be wrong.

And Timothy WAS put in leadership alone by Paul.

One example of a single leader church blows your false doctrine away - I have given you several.

You keep being rude and accusatory though. It shows the lack of depth to your argument.

And you still have not shown where the Bible defines nicolaitan your way.

You are making huge leaps between passages to make your point, and those leaps are simply not justified.

Who was to appiont elders in every church? Timothy - him alone by the way.
And the very phrasing there is just as relevant if he was to appoint a single leader in each of several churches.

You use God's Word amiss, and twist and rend it to a make a point which God never made.

Further, if you look into God's way of leadership in general, you find that he ALWAYS had a single man as leader, although that man sometimes had other leaders beloew him.
Adam did not "co-lead" with Eve.
Abraham.
Noah.
Moses.
JOB.
Any of the Judges.
The kings.
The prophets.

God's way of leadership has always been a sing
le man to lead, often alone, sometimes with a helper or helpers below him.
God never made a command to the contrary for NT times, and there are indications of single leader curches in the NT.

Maybe there is no command about the number of pastors simply because it is irrelevant.

There is just no need for such a restriction.

The restriction on church leadership is that the man or men be spiritual men. This defined more in a few places, but NEVER BY NUMBER.

One thing about these men is that they are not to be rude.

[wretched]

I think there is allot of Scriptural merit in what Prophet1 is saying.

 

I think IFBs although closer to the Bible than any others are still far from a real NT Church as outlined in the Epistles.

 

I think we have been wrong about allot of things for a long time and certainly not just this issue.

[candlelight]

 I have wanted to ask this question for a long time, prophet1.  I am thinking that you consider yourself to be a prophet, as your screen name indicates?

[DaveW]

You posted a passage that has nothing to do with telling Timothy not to elevate one leader above another.

 

Let's have a look at it shall we?

 

1Ti 5:21 I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou OBserve these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality.

 

The phrase “without preferring one before another” has nothing to do with leadership numbers, but in fact “... that thou OBserve these things without preferring one before another.”

What things? Not Elders...... Elders are not “things”.

Whether the things before or the things after this statement, it is the commands, not “preferring one elder over another”.

That is just not in any way shape or form a right understanding of the grammar and phrasing used.

 

This is where you use scripture amiss.

 

You have said I have lied about you, but I have not - I never said what you accuse me of.

 

You are simply trying to smokescreen so that you do not answer any of the passages that I put up that suggest an individual pastor of a church.

 

The fact is that you can not provide any definitive verses that absolutely preclude a single Pastor or leader of a church.

There is no such verse, nor passage.

 

You resort to twisting a verse (1 Timothy 5:21 above) to say what you want it to, but it just doesn't.

 

You throw the accusation of "Nicolaitan" and add your own definition of this in, but you have no reason to support your assertion that this was the "sin of individual leadership".

You have provided no proof of this understanding because there is none.

The Bible certainly doesn't define it as such.

 

I can give you 19 separate passages from the epistles alone that indicate an individual man in a leadership position over a church - I have not posted them here because it runs to 10 pages in my word processor.

 

And there are other passages that show the folly of your argument that I can add to these 19.

 

But there is no point posting them, because you simply ignore the passages I have pointed to already.

 

Now keep in mind that a church with multiple Leaders is not in dispute here - There are at least two OBvious examples that are indisputable.

 

But ONE SINGLE example of an individual in leadership of a church simply blows apart your assertion that a single leader church is unbiblical.

 

The Biblical position is that there is no designated maximum nor minimum number of men to lead any church.

A church with one pastor can be a biblical church, just as a church with several pastors can be a biblical church.

 

Your position of being absolutely against an individually led church is not a biblical position.

 

Both are acceptable.