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    • By 1Timothy115 in Devotionals
         11
      Psalms 119:1-8                                         Sep. 5 - Oct. 2, 2019
      1 ALEPH. Blessed are the undefiled in the way, who walk in the law of the LORD.
      2 Blessed are they that keep his testimonies, and that seek him with the whole heart.
      3 They also do no iniquity: they walk in his ways.
      4 Thou hast commanded us to keep thy precepts diligently.
      5 O that my ways were directed to keep thy statutes!
      6 Then shall I not be ashamed, when I have respect unto all thy commandments.
      7 I will praise thee with uprightness of heart, when I shall have learned thy righteous judgments.
      8 I will keep thy statutes: O forsake me not utterly.
      The following verse stood out to me...
      5 O that my ways were directed to keep thy statutes!
      At first glance it seemed to me this person’s soul is poured out with intense desire to have God’s direction in keeping His Word.
      I made a small wood fire in our backyard for my granddaughter, Julia, since she would be staying overnight with us. My wife and Julia stayed outside at the fire for about half an hour. Then, I found myself alone to watch the fire die out on a particularly lovely evening. So I took my verse from above and began to repeat it for memorization. As I repeated the verse, I tried to contemplate the words and apply them to what I was seeing around me. 
      The moon and stars were out now peering through the scattered clouds above.
      [Genesis 1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. Genesis 1:17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, Genesis 1:18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.]
      Thought 1         
      The moon has stayed his course since the day God created him, also the stars, obeying the statutes directed by God from the first day they were created. Can you imagine God’s direction to the Moon and stars, “moon you will have a path through the sky above the earth, stars you will occupy the firmament above the moon and be clearly visible in the cloudless night sky.”
      Then, the trees, grass, even the air we breathe obey the statues God gave them from the beginning. None of these creations have souls, none have hearts, none have intelligence, but they all observe God’s statutes, His instructions for their limited time on earth.
      Thought 2
      What if we were like the moon, stars, trees, grass, or the other creations which have no soul? We would be directed to keep God’s statutes without choosing to keep them. This is not the image of God, there would be no dominion over other creatures, or over the earth. We would not be capable of experiencing the joy and peace of learning the love of God
      Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
      Philippians 4:7 And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.
      Thought 3 (October 2, 2019)
      Is the psalmist pleading God to force God’s statutes to become the man’s ways? No, he is speaking of his own failure in keeping God’s statutes and his desire to keep them, very much like Paul in Romans 7:14-25.
      God doesn’t work through force to turn men from their ways that they would desire His statutes or desire God Himself. Men must reject (repent) put aside his own ways and voluntarily seek God and His statutes.

So Where Was Baptism For Salvation In The Ot?

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

I think you are wrong here.  The Catholics teach one VISIBLE church,which is  herself.  Non Catholics believe in one invisible church, of which all true believers belong, of which Jesus said: "I will build my church." Matthew 16:18.  He didn't say "I will build my churches."

 

We agree about what the Catholics teach and disagree about the existence of a universal, invisible, church.

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

I think you are wrong here.  The Catholics teach one VISIBLE church,which is  herself.  Non Catholics believe in one invisible church, of which all true believers belong, of which Jesus said: "I will build my church." Matthew 16:18.  He didn't say "I will build my churches."

I will happily quote a verse here:

Mat 16:18  And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 
 
There is a way we can tell when something is meant literally and when something is meant figuratively.
 
Let me ask a quick question in that regard at this point: Are there literal gates of Hell trying to prevail over a literal particular church?
 
Or is it possible that Jesus was speaking figuratively, not about any particular literal church, but about the conceptual idea of His church, just as He was speaking figuratively of the forces of Hell - not literal gates?
 
If you do the study on the word "church" you find 77 references to that particular word, all of them in the NT and all but one of which is talking about the Churches that belong to Christ. (the other speaks of ISrael - which by the way was a local assembly at the Mount Sinai at that time.)
In the vast majority of those instances the word "Church" is defined by the words attached to it such as "the Church in..." or "the church at..." designating it as a particular church in a particular place.
 
Of these 76 verses, the overwhelming majority of which are CLEARLY speaking of an individual local church, there are only a very few which might be vague in their usage as to the local nature of the church.
There is not one verse that clearly speaks of a universal usage of the word church.
 
Then there is of course the 37 uses of the word "Churches" - right - make any of them fit a universal concept of the church...... How can you have a multiplicity of a single concept that is universal when it speaks of them in the plural? - A plurality of a universal entity?
So let's just ignore all 37 of those.
 
Of the 112 uses of the word church or churches the overwhelming majority of them are clearly speaking of individual local churches - those very few that are not clearly local church, are at best vague - not one of them is clearly speaking of a universal church.
 
If you think I am wrong I would be happy to read your explanations to the contrary.
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I will happily quote a verse here:

Mat 16:18  And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 
 
There is a way we can tell when something is meant literally and when something is meant figuratively.
 
Let me ask a quick question in that regard at this point: Are there literal gates of Hell trying to prevail over a literal particular church?
 
Or is it possible that Jesus was speaking figuratively, not about any particular literal church, but about the conceptual idea of His church, just as He was speaking figuratively of the forces of Hell - not literal gates?
 
If you do the study on the word "church" you find 77 references to that particular word, all of them in the NT and all but one of which is talking about the Churches that belong to Christ. (the other speaks of ISrael - which by the way was a local assembly at the Mount Sinai at that time.)
In the vast majority of those instances the word "Church" is defined by the words attached to it such as "the Church in..." or "the church at..." designating it as a particular church in a particular place.
 
Of these 76 verses, the overwhelming majority of which are CLEARLY speaking of an individual local church, there are only a very few which might be vague in their usage as to the local nature of the church.
There is not one verse that clearly speaks of a universal usage of the word church.
 
Then there is of course the 37 uses of the word "Churches" - right - make any of them fit a universal concept of the church...... How can you have a multiplicity of a single concept that is universal when it speaks of them in the plural? - A plurality of a universal entity?
So let's just ignore all 37 of those.
 
Of the 112 uses of the word church or churches the overwhelming majority of them are clearly speaking of individual local churches - those very few that are not clearly local church, are at best vague - not one of them is clearly speaking of a universal church.
 
If you think I am wrong I would be happy to read your explanations to the contrary.

 

It is generally taught that "the church" comprises the "invisible church" of all the redeemed, dead, alive, and yet to be born, visible in local gatherings aka "churches." "My church" therefore means the invisible church that Jesus is building with living b 

 

The gates of hell is an expression not defined in Scripture, so we need to think. Satan's legions attacking Jesus' church, or the gates of hell CANNOT keep the captives will set free. The latter, I believe.

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Well, technically I'm wrong.  The catholics (the word catholic means universal) believe there is but one universal church.  Her offspring, in order to have some claim of authority, invented the idea of a universal, invisible, church.  

 I didn't mean to "like" your post, swath.  I meant to copy it.  I can't undo the "like" though.  Yes, it is technically wrong.  I am well aware of the "Universal "church."  And, yes her offspring (the harlots) as the Bible says, did invent the "universal, invisible, church."  The harlots are the Protestant denominations, although, there are many Protestants that are saved.  I thought it funny that Covenanter "liked" your post as he is a Protestant.  And he is a saved child of the God.   

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

It is generally taught that "the church" comprises the "invisible church" of all the redeemed, dead, alive, and yet to be born, visible in local gatherings aka "churches." "My church" therefore means the invisible church that Jesus is building with living b 

 

The gates of hell is an expression not defined in Scripture, so we need to think. Satan's legions attacking Jesus' church, or the gates of hell CANNOT keep the captives will set free. The latter, I believe.

 

But "generally taught" just don't cut it - find me a clear passage in the Scripture that clearly teaches a universal understanding of the church.

 

There is no doubt that "church" refers to a local group - this can not be disputed.

 

But there is nowhere that uses the word "church" in a clearly universal way. Matthew 16:18 is at best unclear and the purpose of that passage is not to define the church anyway. 

 

We could easily list those verses that are ambiguous: (I don't consider all of these listed as doubtful).

Act_8:3  As for Saul, he made havock of the church, entering into every house, and haling men and women committed them to prison. 
There was only one church at this time - the local church at Jerusalem.
 
Act_11:26  And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch. 
 
Assembled themselves - you don't "assemble" a universal church - the context indicates the church at Antioch specifically.
 
Act_12:1  Now about that time Herod the king stretched forth his hands to vex certain of the church. 
Which church? The Church at Jerusalem.
 
Act_12:5  Peter therefore was kept in prison: but prayer was made without ceasing of the church unto God for him. 
Again, which church? Look at the timing of this - word would not have quickly reached any other church - the church at Jerusalem.
 
Act_14:27  And when they were come, and had gathered the church together, they rehearsed all that God had done with them, and how he had opened the door of faith unto the Gentiles. 
Gathered the church together...... universally??? I think not.
 
Act_15:3  And being brought on their way by the church, they passed through Phenice and Samaria, declaring the conversion of the Gentiles: and they caused great joy unto all the brethren. 
The church at Jerusalem wanted a chat, and "brought them on their way".
 
Act 20:28  Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. 
This is talking to the elders of the church at Ephesus.
 
Rom_16:23  Gaius mine host, and of the whole church, saluteth you. Erastus the chamberlain of the city saluteth you, and Quartus a brother. 
In a list of individual people - the "whole church" spoken of here is indicated to be the church at Corinth.
 
1Co 6:4  If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church. 
This is talking of the church at Corinth specifically.
 
1Co_10:32  Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God: 
This "might" be speaking generically, but tell me, how do you offend someone in the "universal church" - you offend people you meet, Even this indicates local application.
 
1Co_12:28  And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. 
The previous verses speak of one member suffering with another member - you don't suffer with a believer you have never met or heard of. The context applies this clearly to the local church, not some universal church.
 
1 Cor 14 mentions the church in 7 verses, and the context plainly makes it local.
 
1Co_15:9  For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 
Where was Paul going when he was converted? away from Jerusalem - which church did he persecute? the church at Jerusalem - he is not talking of a "universal church" but specifically the church at Jerusalem.
 
Gal 1:13 is the same.
 
Ephesians is prOBably your best bet in this argument, but if you look at the letter, you find that it is written specifically to the saints at Ephesus, and none of the verses defines the church as universal, and every verse could easily apply to a local church. Some of them could possibly apply to a universal church, but considering there is no reason to make it apply universally, that understanding comes from a predisposition to apply it that way - my understanding of these passages as applying locally also comes from MY predisposition - but I have the weight of 100 verses to side with my predisposition.
Ephesians "Might" apply either way, but does not need to.
 
Likewise:
Col_1:18  And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. 
 
This verse makes sense locally, and the other two uses of Church in Colossians are clearly local. - the only reason to make 1:18 universal is a predisposition to do so.
 
Heb_12:23  To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, 
 
This is another that is interesting, but not difficult really.
Let's have some context for it:
Heb 12:22  But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, 
Heb 12:23  To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, 
Heb 12:24  And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel. 
 
Ye are come to: Mount Sion, the heavenly Jerusalem, innumerable angels, general assembly and church of firstborn, God the judge of all,Spirits of just men made perfect, Jesus the mediator.
 
Where do we see all of this? Well now, eschatology suddenly makes a difference doesn't it?
We have not seen such a gathering, but when we do, this general assembly and church of the firstborn will be gathered into one place - a LOCAL assembly....
 
So of all the passages that mention "Church" they are either clearly local church, or MIGHT POSSIBLY be taken either way, depending on your predisposition.
 
There are NONE that are clearly universal, aside from the last, which is a local gathering of all believers into one place. It is only universal because it includes all believers - but they are gathered together in one place - a local gathering.
 
Do an experiment - read the "doubtful passages" from the perspective of never having heard of a universal church, and see if they still make sense.
 
We all have our preconceptions - but in this case, the local church only preconception fits with every passage, whilst the universal church only position is clearly unsupportable, and the dual nature position is not necessary.
 

 

 

I simply don't understand your explanation of the Gates of Hell - is it possible you have a typo in there, as it doesn't make any sense to me?????

(Not making fun, nor trying to be "smart" - maybe it is the way I am reading you, but the sentence doesn't make sense to me..... Sorry.)

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

I think you are wrong here.  The Catholics teach one VISIBLE church,which is  herself.  Non Catholics believe in one invisible church, of which all true believers belong, of which Jesus said: "I will build my church." Matthew 16:18.  He didn't say "I will build my churches."

Fist off, forgive me for spelling mistakes as I am using a glasses off program to improve my vision and it requires while I am using it not to where any glasses.  So I can't see the keybaord that well and my typing skills are a bit lacking.

 

So,

 

Which church would it be if Jesus has not gone to the cross yet?

 

So here is Jesus Building a church and it is pre-cross so what church was he building?

 

It is the church of the first born which is Israel also known as the church in the wilderness  This church is not currently being built.  What is being built today is the BODY OF CHRIST, which is called the Church.  Once the BODY OF CHRIST has been gathered into the clouds to Jesus, then dealing and building the church of the wilderness/the church of the first born will be taken up again under the Gospel of the kingdom.

 

Today, we are blessed not because we keep his commandments or do baptisms or repentance, but because of the work of Jesus Christ (this does not mean you will not get a blessing if your do, it just means you don't earn anything by works today).  under Law and the gospel of the Kingdom one must keep commandments and do works to get a blessing of God.

 

You can argue all you want, if you don't see that it is because you are not OBserving the text.

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  • Lady Administrators

 

You can argue all you want, if you don't see that it is because you are not OBserving the text.

I do believe we've been this route before, but since it seems that memories are short, let me remind you...STOP accusing people of not OBserving the text.  If you want to discuss, then discuss.  Browbeating by intimating or claiming that others don't read the Bible right is not godly and it is not going to continue.  

 

Should be enough said.

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

What is the meaning of "one body" in Ephesians 4:4 and 1 Cor. 12:13?  Is the "one baptism in Ephesians 4:5 water baptism?  What about the baptism in 1 Cor. 12:13?

 

Ephesians 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
Ephesians 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Ephesians 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

 

1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

 

John the Baptist prophesied the "baptism of the Holy Ghost" and the "baptism with fire" (judgment) by Jesus Christ Himself in Matthew 3:11:

 

Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

 

Jesus prophesied the "baptism of the Holy Ghost" in Acts 1:5:

 

Acts 1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

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Today, we are blessed not because we keep his commandments or do baptisms or repentance, but because of the work of Jesus Christ (this does not mean you will not get a blessing if your do, it just means you don't earn anything by works today).  under Law and the gospel of the Kingdom one must keep commandments and do works to get a blessing of God.

 

Please review my post at >#33 and respond.

 

Thank you.

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

 I didn't mean to "like" your post, swath.  I meant to copy it.  I can't undo the "like" though.  Yes, it is technically wrong.  I am well aware of the "Universal "church."  

 

I know you know more about the Popery than me, I think that part was meant for someone else.  You can click a "Like This" again to unlike it; unless there's a time period to do so?

 

That was childish and absolutely uncalled for. But not unexpected. Knock it off, swath. Now.

 

:bleh:

 

You can argue all you want, if you don't see that it is because you are not OBserving the text.

 

:ROFL:

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  • Advanced Member
..........

 

I simply don't understand your explanation of the Gates of Hell - is it possible you have a typo in there, as it doesn't make any sense to me?????

(Not making fun, nor trying to be "smart" - maybe it is the way I am reading you, but the sentence doesn't make sense to me..... Sorry.)

Sorry - typo -

The gates of hell is an expression not defined in Scripture, so we need to think. Satan's legions attacking Jesus' church, or the gates of hell CANNOT keep the captives JESUS will set free. The latter, I believe.

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

 

Which church would it be if Jesus has not gone to the cross yet?

 

So here is Jesus Building a church and it is pre-cross so what church was he building?

 

It is the church of the first born which is Israel also known as the church in the wilderness  

 

So by this twisting of scripture, the Great Commission was given to the apostles only and when they died was no more.  Nahh...

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Salyan,

 

You might want to add this passage to your already excellent explanation:

 

Heb 11
24  By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter; 
25  Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season; 
26  Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward. 
 

Note that it was Faith that caused Moses to acts in this way - just like it is Faith that makes us "do good works".

And note also what that faith was in - In CHRIST - not in God generally, but in Christ specifically - in the promised Messiah.

 

Moses had faith in Christ, and it caused him to serve God.

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry - typo -

The gates of hell is an expression not defined in Scripture, so we need to think. Satan's legions attacking Jesus' church, or the gates of hell CANNOT keep the captives JESUS will set free. The latter, I believe.

 

OK thanks for clearing that up (and for not assuming I was being stupid or picky about it).

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

What is the meaning of "one body" in Ephesians 4:4 and 1 Cor. 12:13?  Is the "one baptism in Ephesians 4:5 water baptism?  What about the baptism in 1 Cor. 12:13?

 

Ephesians 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
Ephesians 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Ephesians 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

 

1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

 

John the Baptist prophesied the "baptism of the Holy Ghost" and the "baptism with fire" (judgment) by Jesus Christ Himself in Matthew 3:11:

 

Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

 

Jesus prophesied the "baptism of the Holy Ghost" in Acts 1:5:

 

Acts 1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

One my comment about not OBserving means in a manner that reflects you are OBserving using the 6 w's and the H.

 

two, the Body is only mentioned by Paul it was not a teaching of Christ or the 11 or any member of the church in the wilderness/church of the first born.

 

Baptism of the Holy Ghost in Matthew was with the signs that they received in Acts 2.  that baptism stopped once Paul brought in the Gospel of the Grace of God. glad to see you knew that fire was baptism of judgement.  Never happened yet will take place in the tribulation.

 

Again Paul is the only one to teach about the Body of Christ and today there is only one baptism that which puts you into the Body of Christ.

 

Acts 1:5 was for the church in the wilderness/fist born Israel and that baptism ended when Paul brought in the Gospel of the Grace of God.

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

If you don't rightly divide the scriptures then you will blend them all and their doctrines and to whom they apply.

 

I can't force you to learn this or accept this but it is a truth. 

 

The divisions of Gen-Acts 7, Acts 12-Philemon, Hebrews through Rev 19, Rev 19-Rev21 are four simple divisions of scripture and they are to different people at different times.  that does not mean we can t use them or apply  them it just means doctrinally there is application that is not for us.

 

ALL scripture is for the Body of Christ but not not all of it applies to the body of Christ.

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  • Advanced Member

If you don't rightly divide the scriptures then you will blend them all and their doctrines and to whom they apply.

 

I can't force you to learn this or accept this but it is a truth. 

 

The divisions of Gen-Acts 7, Acts 12-Philemon, Hebrews through Rev 19, Rev 19-Rev21 are four simple divisions of scripture and they are to different people at different times.  that does not mean we can t use them or apply  them it just means doctrinally there is application that is not for us.

 

ALL scripture is for the Body of Christ but not not all of it applies to the body of Christ.

 

Strange teaching.

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Salyan,

 

You might want to add this passage to your already excellent explanation:

 

Heb 11
24  By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter; 
25  Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season; 
26  Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward. 
 

Note that it was Faith that caused Moses to acts in this way - just like it is Faith that makes us "do good works".

And note also what that faith was in - In CHRIST - not in God generally, but in Christ specifically - in the promised Messiah.

 

Moses had faith in Christ, and it caused him to serve God.

 

 

 

 

 

 

OK thanks for clearing that up (and for not assuming I was being stupid or picky about it).

I did not say that Faith was not active in any age, economy or dispensation.  I said that Faith, Works and God's Grace worked in different ways at different times.  They were all active at all times, just in different manners of application.

 

I don't remember anywhere in Exodus through Duet that Moses had faith in the finished work of Christ/Messiah to Moses he was called a prophet like unto himself. Moses did not know anything other than God would raise up a prophet like him to lead Israel.  While Moses knew that he did not know who Jesus Christ was until after his death when he met him face to face when Jesus went into hell and preached unto the prisoners. 

 

Moses's faith was in the word/promise of God generally and in God specifically.

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