Why I Left The Pre-Trib Position

[Genevanpreacher]

I have to say that you are ignorant.  I have repeatedly indicated that I went to the Bible Institute of Los Angeles.

I have no idea of what the Biola University or Talbot Theological official "statements of faith or doctrine" were in 1962.

 

You OBviously have some spiritual prOBlem (to put it mildly) as you repeatedly associate me with something other than the

Bible Institute of Los Angeles.  This is pure deception on the order of spiritual wickedness. 

As far as McGee goes, he has been dead for almost 3 decades, and yet, he is still heard on his daily radio broadcast

"Through the Bible". 

 

There is something wrong here!

There, I messaged you their doctrinal statement, which they say had been "originally conceived by the founders of this organization".

 

I read the things Gorship referenced also. I really do not see it.

 

In my opinion, useless jargon and made up fantasies.

Why can't 'christians' just accept what God says and focus on it, instead of 'looking into' something, and call it 'rightly dividing'?

 

There is no evidence in those 3 spots on the web, in my thinking, that even come close to my 27 years of reading the scriptures.

They do not align with God's word, and that is my prOBlem with what I hear on this thread.

It matters not how you say it, it does not fit!

 

By the way, my memory is not always the best and I apologize for any inconsistencies. They are not intentional.

[Genevanpreacher]

why should I teach if better men than me have stated it clearer than I can, id rather keep silent if at all possible. (on the college thing) I do agree with you that it is important, but to say im "bashing" im only asking to just watch the double standards, lets all be consistent. Furthermore my point wasn't that "you seem to have issues reading your Bible" at the end of the day, I Guarentee you that everyone on here could dance circles around me on some topics, i am far from an expert in anything other than how to sleep in till 1030am. My point is that It is a bit ridiculous to read a ton of people mis-characterizing Dispy theology when the information to fully understand it is so readily available. How can one refute a claim if the person does not know the claim themselves? We would be rolling on the floor in laughter if an Atheist said the Bible doesn't exist because they have never read it... yet I continually read through discussions where similar logic is being applied... Its just a bit ridiculous

I am genuinely interested in why people would see a post trib rapture, but if the proof for it is because "I dont like darby - therefore I dont like dispensationism which you are using to help show a pretrib" my eye starts twitching at the logic fail.

Honestly all I use Dispensations for at my level is for simple understanding of literally "what in the world was going on"



Again I dont think that any of the dispensations "saved" anyone, these are ways God chose to reveal himself to those during these periods and how they would govern themselves, all of which are to point to the promise in Genesis 3:15 which are fulfilled in Christ.

holy chocolate cows were off topic.

 

There should be no better man than you to teach.

Study and study!

You can be just as good at understanding God's word than anyone else, you get the same Spirit of God, that they have, to guide you.

[MountainChristian]

 

A picture is worth a thousand words, Thank you

[Steve Schwenke]

Genevanpreacher has demonstrated for us the impossibility of having any sane, rational discussion on the subject of eschatology.  He and prophet both insist on bashing dispensationalism, when neither one of them knows what it is.  Prophet even agrees with some of the basic tenets of dispensationalism, but he just can't get past a man who also taught it, but is also a (mild) Bible corrector.  (I say mild because to lump Scofield in with Westcott, Hort, Nestle, Aland, Metzger, Wuest, ROBertson, the NIV, the NASV, etc. et al is just too funny for words!) 

Prophet's argument goes like this. 

"Scofield taught dispensationalism.  Scofield also corrected the KJV.  Therefore dispensationalism must be wrong."

 

What an absurd argument. 

If we go by that standard, we would have to ditch every major doctrine of the Bible, because Bible correctors every where believe many of the same doctrines that we do.  For instance, Scofield believed in the blood atonement of Christ - should we drop that doctrine also?  I mean, let's be consistent, shall we???

 

And we are also to believe that he has never read anything in support of what he actually believes from somebody who hadn't "corrected" the Bible at some place or another.

 

 

Genevanpreacher's argument goes like this. 

"Dispensationalism must be wrong, because that is not what I believe.  Of course, I am not really sure what dispensationalism really IS, nor am I willing to find out!  In fact, I think I will just invent my own definition for it - that way I can be sure to prove it wrong!"

 

Well, I say that if you guys are not man enough to go dig it out for yourselves, then it is not worth my time to try to explain it to you.  If you REALLY wanted the truth on the matter, you would start digging - as in Prov. 2 type digging.  Like, digging for gold, silver or precious stones type digging.  You are never going to get any type of THOROUGH explanation of it on an internet forum.  This is not the proper setting for a thorough, indepth explanation of it that covers all the bases, and answers all the questions.  You guys would be launching all kinds of OBjections to it, along with all kinds of nice adjectives - like the term "heresy" - before we could even get 1/4 of the way through our explanations. 

Regardless of your own position, you owe it to yourself to be honest enough to find out exactly what dispensationalism is ON YOUR OWN.  That way, you know exactly what it is you are disputing.

 

Otherwise, these "conversations" are pretty much worthless.  You can't have any rational discussion with somebody who has already closed their mind on a subject, especially when they have no idea as to what it is they are really arguing against.

 

In Christ,

[swathdiver]

Regardless of your own position, you owe it to yourself to be honest enough to find out exactly what dispensationalism is ON YOUR OWN.

 

  Steve, should we be able to point to the scriptures and say, "This is what the Lord says about..."?

[Steve Schwenke]

Swath

Absolutely.

The Scriptures are the final authority.  All other material is to be judged by the KJV.  I have found that the Holy Bible speaks on every topic known to mankind.  It is our jOB as Christians, when we are confronted with a new topic (that is, new to us as individuals), to search the Bible to find out what it says on that topic. 

[Genevanpreacher]

Swath

Absolutely.

The Scriptures are the final authority.  All other material is to be judged by the KJV.  I have found that the Holy Bible speaks on every topic known to mankind.  It is our jOB as Christians, when we are confronted with a new topic (that is, new to us as individuals), to search the Bible to find out what it says on that topic. 

 

As much as I appreciate your 'love' toward those of us who stick to the plain and simple truth of God, you are being in quite the mood tonight.

Thank you for pointing out all the 'work' it would take for us to 'know' just what in the world you call 'the truth'.

 

Here is your quote:

"  Well, I say that if you guys are not man enough to go dig it out for yourselves, then it is not worth my time to try to explain it to you.  If you REALLY wanted the truth on the matter, you would start digging - as in Prov. 2 type digging.  Like, digging for gold, silver or precious stones type digging."

 

Last I read, God's word is pretty easy to understand, and was not written in any code.

Yes I understand there are some 'spiritiual' things God has in his word that are just for his children, but we are still humans,

and need some mercy when it comes to, not understanding him, but realizing that he is in control.

Since God is not the author of confusion, and just about everything spoken on this subject on these

forums is not clear to the minds of some of us, why would God want us to study something so abstract and hidden

that it would discourage men who have spent a lifetime reading and studying his word, and NEVER get what you all

have been saying in this website/forum?

 

I have seen Masonic teachings easier to understand than what is said about scriptures supporting 'Dispensationalism'.

If what 'Dispy' (no disrespect for the term) people teach is so 'true', why doesn't it 'ring bells' for all Christ's followers?

 

The answer Bro. Schwenke has above does nothing to add to my persuasion of the 'dispy' belief but division.

I love you brother but I have studied/read/preached/and taught the word of God since 1990, and have never

had this kind of teaching come to my mind. So in looking at my years of enjoying the word of God, and getting to know

God so personally, what do I lack? I do have the ability to study, and divide the word right, where have I failed to 'get'

this 'special revelation' that you all seem to have? Do I have to go to some special group, whether a college, or school,

or perhaps your Church to finally get it? 

 

I am sorry. I feel at a loss, when trying to accept something that doesn't 'jive' with what I know is not right division.

As I hope you do to. 

Could you be wrong? I can, but God has not revealed what you all believe to me yet, from his word.

[DaveW]

As much as I appreciate your 'love' toward those of us who stick to the plain and simple truth of God, you are being in quite the mood tonight.

Thank you for pointing out all the 'work' it would take for us to 'know' just what in the world you call 'the truth'.

 

Here is your quote:

"  Well, I say that if you guys are not man enough to go dig it out for yourselves, then it is not worth my time to try to explain it to you.  If you REALLY wanted the truth on the matter, you would start digging - as in Prov. 2 type digging.  Like, digging for gold, silver or precious stones type digging."

 

Last I read, God's word is pretty easy to understand, and was not written in any code.

Yes I understand there are some 'spiritiual' things God has in his word that are just for his children, but we are still humans,

and need some mercy when it comes to, not understanding him, but realizing that he is in control.

Since God is not the author of confusion, and just about everything spoken on this subject on these

forums is not clear to the minds of some of us, why would God want us to study something so abstract and hidden

that it would discourage men who have spent a lifetime reading and studying his word, and NEVER get what you all

have been saying in this website/forum?

 

I have seen Masonic teachings easier to understand than what is said about scriptures supporting 'Dispensationalism'.

If what 'Dispy' (no disrespect for the term) people teach is so 'true', why doesn't it 'ring bells' for all Christ's followers?

 

The answer Bro. Schwenke has above does nothing to add to my persuasion of the 'dispy' belief but division.

I love you brother but I have studied/read/preached/and taught the word of God since 1990, and have never

had this kind of teaching come to my mind. So in looking at my years of enjoying the word of God, and getting to know

God so personally, what do I lack? I do have the ability to study, and divide the word right, where have I failed to 'get'

this 'special revelation' that you all seem to have? Do I have to go to some special group, whether a college, or school,

or perhaps your Church to finally get it? 

 

I am sorry. I feel at a loss, when trying to accept something that doesn't 'jive' with what I know is not right division.

As I hope you do to. 

Could you be wrong? I can, but God has not revealed what you all believe to me yet, from his word.

 

Do you understand that in it's mildest form Dispensationalism is about historical divisions and has nothing to do with salvation?

 

Yes there are some people who take the concept to the extreme - they fantasize about differing salvations etc but have to twist and rend the Scriptures to do so.

 

But there is absolutely no doubt that there are different ages in history.

 

The real question is what exactly these are about and for, and what do they mean.

 

This is the prOBlem with making broad generalisations about subjects.

 

I know dsipensationalists that would argue against the hyper dispensationalists here just as vigorously as you, but then would argue against your definition of dispensationalism.

 

But there are some here who argue against "hyper-dispensationalism" but then espouse the same but call it dispensationalism (without the "Hyper").

 

The prOBlem is that not only you are confused about the various differing ideas of dispensationalism, but so are half the people arguing about it.

And how can we help but be confused about it, with so many different ideas of exactly what it is.

 

That is why I have not bothered (until now) to put anything into this - I am not interested in arguing for or against something that is so vastly different from one person to the next.

[prophet1]

Do you understand that in it's mildest form Dispensationalism is about historical divisions and has nothing to do with salvation?

Yes there are some people who take the concept to the extreme - they fantasize about differing salvations etc but have to twist and rend the Scriptures to do so.

But there is absolutely no doubt that there are different ages in history.

The real question is what exactly these are about and for, and what do they mean.

This is the prOBlem with making broad generalisations about subjects.

I know dsipensationalists that would argue against the hyper dispensationalists here just as vigorously as you, but then would argue against your definition of dispensationalism.

But there are some here who argue against "hyper-dispensationalism" but then espouse the same but call it dispensationalism (without the "Hyper").

The prOBlem is that not only you are confused about the various differing ideas of dispensationalism, but so are half the people arguing about it.
And how can we help but be confused about it, with so many different ideas of exactly what it is.

That is why I have not bothered (until now) to put anything into this - I am not interested in arguing for or against something that is so vastly different from one person to the next.

If you all have to use comparative adjectives, like "mildest" to get someone to be more willing to swallow what they are gagging on, you won't get them back to your restaurant.

What we balk at, is any attempt to force a system on to a Creator who made the platypus.

Anishinaabe

[Steve Schwenke]

Genevan

Who said anything about a "code?"

What I said is absolute truth.  I know a skeptic when I see one, and skeptics are long on dismissal, and short on attention span.  They have already made up their minds - just as you have about dispensationalism.  So the truth is, you truly are not interested in understanding our position to begin with - if you were, then somewhere along the line in the last 24 years you would have AT LEAST given consideration to it.   And that is why I say it is not worth my time to attempt to explain something that is "strong meat" to somebody who really is not interested in it anyway!

 

If what you said is true, then why is it that II Timothy 2:15 gives us the command to STUDY, and then says that we are to be a WORKMAN?  There are some simple truths that are laying right on the surface, but there is also a great deal of truth that will require much study and a lot of WORK to dig out.  That is why the Bereans were nOBle - they searched the Scriptures daily. 

If what you said is true, then why does Solomon exhort his son to cry aloud after wisdom and knowledge, and search for it as if he were searching for gold, and hidden treasures?  See Proverbs 2:1-9!  Not all of the truth is laying out in the middle of the street waiting to be picked up.  Gold is buried, and has to be dug out with a complicated system of mines, shafts, and machinery.  Hidden treasures are buried, and must be found.  So it is with Bible Doctrine. 

 

The trouble is that you want to be spoon fed.

 

You don't see how we arrive at our conclusions because you have never bothered to investigate what we believe on your own, and are very quick to dismiss it when confronted with it.

 

Could I be wrong?

I don't claim to have the answers to everything, but what I believe has silenced many a Bible critic in personal witnessing and public preaching.  It is places like this forum where I have proven to myself at least that what I believe is true, because it holds up to the OBjections of the critics.  Your OBjections are based on emotional appeals, not Scriptural substance.  I have demonstrated that Covenanter's OBjections are a huge distortion of Scripture, often ignoring the plain reading of the text, and often ignoring the definitive Scripture that explains his OBjections.  I use these forums to test what I believe against the critics.  It is not my goal to persuade anyone, but rather to test what I believe to see if it holds up against close scrutiny, at least to my own satisfaction.  If what I write is helpful to others, then praise the Lord!

 

When I am not sure on a thing, I remain silent.  But I have a responsibility to feed the flock that God has entrusted to my care.  Thus it behooves me to search a matter out to the fullest extent possible so that I can be sure that what I am feeding them is the TRUTH from the word of God.  How absurd it would be for me to stand in front of our congregation and say, "I don't know if what I am teaching is correct, but here it is anyway!"  NO, I must be certain, and so far as I can tell, what I believe is correct.   I realize this can be mistaken for arrogance, but I have been wrong before, and I have admitted where I was wrong, and made the necessary corrections and explanations to our church. 

 

But this subject - dispensationalism - has already been settled in my mind, just as your position is settled in your mind.

[Genevanpreacher]

Genevan

Who said anything about a "code?"

What I said is absolute truth.  I know a skeptic when I see one, and skeptics are long on dismissal, and short on attention span.  They have already made up their minds - just as you have about dispensationalism.  So the truth is, you truly are not interested in understanding our position to begin with - if you were, then somewhere along the line in the last 24 years you would have AT LEAST given consideration to it.   And that is why I say it is not worth my time to attempt to explain something that is "strong meat" to somebody who really is not interested in it anyway!

 

If what you said is true, then why is it that II Timothy 2:15 gives us the command to STUDY, and then says that we are to be a WORKMAN?  There are some simple truths that are laying right on the surface, but there is also a great deal of truth that will require much study and a lot of WORK to dig out.  That is why the Bereans were nOBle - they searched the Scriptures daily. 

If what you said is true, then why does Solomon exhort his son to cry aloud after wisdom and knowledge, and search for it as if he were searching for gold, and hidden treasures?  See Proverbs 2:1-9!  Not all of the truth is laying out in the middle of the street waiting to be picked up.  Gold is buried, and has to be dug out with a complicated system of mines, shafts, and machinery.  Hidden treasures are buried, and must be found.  So it is with Bible Doctrine. 

 

The trouble is that you want to be spoon fed.

 

You don't see how we arrive at our conclusions because you have never bothered to investigate what we believe on your own, and are very quick to dismiss it when confronted with it.

 

Could I be wrong?

I don't claim to have the answers to everything, but what I believe has silenced many a Bible critic in personal witnessing and public preaching.  It is places like this forum where I have proven to myself at least that what I believe is true, because it holds up to the OBjections of the critics.  Your OBjections are based on emotional appeals, not Scriptural substance.  I have demonstrated that Covenanter's OBjections are a huge distortion of Scripture, often ignoring the plain reading of the text, and often ignoring the definitive Scripture that explains his OBjections.  I use these forums to test what I believe against the critics.  It is not my goal to persuade anyone, but rather to test what I believe to see if it holds up against close scrutiny, at least to my own satisfaction.  If what I write is helpful to others, then praise the Lord!

 

When I am not sure on a thing, I remain silent.  But I have a responsibility to feed the flock that God has entrusted to my care.  Thus it behooves me to search a matter out to the fullest extent possible so that I can be sure that what I am feeding them is the TRUTH from the word of God.  How absurd it would be for me to stand in front of our congregation and say, "I don't know if what I am teaching is correct, but here it is anyway!"  NO, I must be certain, and so far as I can tell, what I believe is correct.   I realize this can be mistaken for arrogance, but I have been wrong before, and I have admitted where I was wrong, and made the necessary corrections and explanations to our church. 

 

But this subject - dispensationalism - has already been settled in my mind, just as your position is settled in your mind.

 

Just a note. You truly do misrepresent Proverbs chapter 2.

It is not that 'deep' into what your 'dispy' is about, but, I know, I don't know what I should about 'dispy'...

 

But I do know the words of the Lord, and what you call dispensationalism, is just a bunch of sensationalism that only the chosen in your 'club' can explain in your

view of what certain scriptures 'say'. If it's that difficult to explain, it 'ain't real'. That's what I meant by a 'code'.

 

You OBviously do not read well, or you wouldn't have said some of this response. I have spent all of my Christian walk reading God's word to the point

of family members worrying about my sanity, I was so addicted to studying. I carried my Bible with me everywhere, read it everywhere, and digested 

it daily more than anyone else I have ever met. I did not read commentaries, but tried a couple of books by some preachers, but they seemed to think very shallow.

They were, to put it mildly, boring when teaching the scriptures. I have read so many 'reference books' about history and people and encyclopedias galore,

it would prOBably scare you, but no where near the time I have spent reading the word of God. 

 

So do not even suggest I do not 'know' how to concentrate on a subject because of a small attention span.

 

You have no idea.

 

So now you have a little bit of info on me, and I know a personal attack when I see one. I do them too.

So please, if your gonna try to help in this discussion, don't try to coddle the subject with your ideas about people, but the facts.

 

No maybe that's not a good idea either, because everything I have 'recently' read from you and your co-horts and online from books,

has no facts.

 

It's just a 'view'.

[beameup]

The Dispensation that should be the most OBvious is the one that we are currently in,

and ignoring that information is exactly what the 4th Century Catholic Church did

when they came up with "Replacement Theology" and all its heretical bedfellows.

These 4th Century Catholic Doctrines are with us today, many having been adopted

by Protestants (including Baptists, unfortunately).

 

Ephesians 3:1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,

² If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

³ How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

⁴ Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

⁵ Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

⁶ That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

⁷ Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

⁸ Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;

⁹ And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

¹⁰ To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

¹¹ According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

 

For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.  (ie: end of this present Dispensation).  Romans 11:25

 

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¹⁵ And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

¹⁶ As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrestle, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.  2 Peter 3:15-16 

"Wrestling with the Scriptures" is precisely what Catholic Doctrine is all about (from 4th Century on).

Is it any wonder why Catholics chose Peter to be their "first pope"?

[Genevanpreacher]

 

The Dispensation that should be the most OBvious is the one that we are currently in,

and ignoring that information is exactly what the 4th Century Catholic Church did

when they came up with "Replacement Theology" and all its heretical bedfellows.

These 4th Century Catholic Doctrines are with us today, many having been adopted

by Protestants (including Baptists, unfortunately).

 

Ephesians 3:1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,

² If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

³ How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

⁴ Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

⁵ Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

⁶ That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

⁷ Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

⁸ Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;

⁹ And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

¹⁰ To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

¹¹ According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

 

For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.  (ie: end of this present Dispensation).  Romans 11:25

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

¹⁵ And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

¹⁶ As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrestle, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.  2 Peter 3:15-16 

"Wrestling with the Scriptures" is precisely what Catholic Doctrine is all about (from 4th Century on).

Is it any wonder why Catholics chose Peter to be their "first pope"?

 

 

This was in existence before the Catholics 'thought it up'. They are never the originators of anything true.

By the way, why won't you accept my 'messenger' email?

Also the word is not 'wrestle', but wrest. Two completely different actions, one means jerk violently away from, and the other means to have a 'planned' controlled attack and force one to give it to you.

[Steve Schwenke]

Genevan

So you know that you don't know about dispensationalism, but yet you castigate me for not telling you that you don't want to know about it?

 

Strange.

 

All I am saying is that you expect us to explain it to you in two sentences - maybe three.  Yes, that is spoon feeding.

 

You think that if you can't see it on the surface then it does not exist.  My reference to Prov. 2 is "spot on."  The truth is not always on the surface. 

Isaiah says it this way:

Isaiah 28:9-13

v. 9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.

 

If you want to understand Bible doctrine, there must be a certain amount of maturity about you.  See Heb. 5:12-14

 

V. 10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

v. 11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.

v. 12 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.

v. 13 But the word of the Lord was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

 

So Prov. 2 is the perfect illustration of learning Bible doctrine.  The Lord did not put in all in a nice, tidy, little box.  It is like searching for treasure - a little bit here, and a little bit there.  And those "little bits" are part of a structure that has a solid foundation (precept upon precept, line upon line) that we add to. 

 

You could no more explain to me your entire system of interpreting Scripture in one single, readable, post.  It would take several posts - and in between your explanatory posts, there would be constant interjections, heckling, and dismissal....so you would get about as far as I would. 

 

I did not say that you were unintelligent, or that your love for the Lord was insincere.  I just find it odd that you are so vehemently opposed to a system that you know nothing about.  I also find it odd that you take offense when somebody calls you on that, even though seem to be able to "dish it out." 

 

Goodbye.

 

In Christ,

[Genevanpreacher]

I guess nothing I say would be considered 'sincere' in your eyes. So I will resist further comment.

I will not repeat myself, you can reread my posts and maybe consider things on your own.

 

Goodbye?