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jebarr

Unsaved Son's Upcoming Wedding

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HI,

 

Our first son is going to marry his fiance this OctOBer.  Unfortunately they are both unsaved and while being a "good boy" he lives a pretty secular lifestyle. My wife and I are not even sure if they are going to allow our pastor to marry them yet as the wedding is at a hotel along with the reception and rehearsal dinner. Our beliefs are known by them and we are paying for the rehearsal dinner with NO money towards alcohol.  I have read that it is customary to "toast" at these rehearsals and of course the wedding reception too.  Is this acceptable in God's eyes if we are drinking water? 

 

At previous weddings we have just skipped this.  But would that be considered rude and cause hurt feelings? also they are having alcohol and a DJ at the reception.  We want no part of either but feel confused about things like the Mother/Son dance and the like. I feel like I know what I should do but am unsure how to preserve hurt feelings or appearing rude?

 

Thanks- Jebarr

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I know that I will prOBably be criticized for saying this, but it is their wedding.  If I were in that position, I would let them have their day as they want it and not personally participate in that which you are conflicted.  Not everyone's convictions are the same.

 

My own opinion.

 

And congratulations.

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Well, it isn't just the son's decision, so it's not just about him respecting them...there is also the fiance to consider, and her family.  A wedding is not done in a vacuum, and many people are involved when plans are made.

 

jebarr, if you really feel that you cannot attend the reception if there is alcohol, you should let your son know...let him know how much you love him, and how glad you are for the addition to the family (you can say that, because it is not an unequal yoke since they are both unsaved) - and how much you are looking forward to getting to know them as a married unit (because, believe me, marriage does change our children). But let them know that, as a Christian, you can't participate when there is alcohol.  Let them know your biblical reasons, and that it is not a reflection on them or their choices (because, remember, they are not saved - you cannot expect for them to adhere to the same standards you have).  Tell them you've agonized over this, but that you do not have peace about attending with alcohol being served.  And then invite them to a special celebratory dinner after their honeymoon.

 

As to the mother/son dance - if you don't attend, it's not a prOBlem.  If you do, though, know that it isn't the same thing as a rock n roll type dance, or something of that nature.  Stipulate that you choose the song, so you can assure that it isn't something OBjectionable.

 

I would strongly recommend much prayer - make sure that if you don't attend, it is definitely what the Lord would have you do.  Remember that our Lord went to a wedding, and there was drinking there (no, I'm not saying He made alcohol, but I'm sure not all the three days worth of drinking was only grape juice).

 

As for me, I think I would attend. And I would dance the mother/son dance with my son.  :bigshock:  That would give your wife his undivided attention for a few minutes...and she can most certainly make use of it with last-minute motherly advice...such as letting him know that he will make a fine husband, but would make a great husband if he only knew the Lord (or some such).

 

Congrats, jebarr.  I don't know if this is your first child (or if you have more than one) to get married, but a daughter-in-law can be such joy.

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I think it would be very hurtful if you skipped the wedding festivities.  However, there is nothing wrong with not partaking in the alcohol or not dancing.  Just go enjoy.  Visit with people.  Enjoy an iced tea or cold Coca-Cola.  Celebrate this big day with your son and daughter-in-law.  Failing to do so could potentially damage your relationship with them very deeply.  If there is a toast, simply toast with your glass of water, tea or cola.  Or simply don't toast.  But by all means go to your son's wedding. 

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HI,

 

Our first son is going to marry his fiance this OctOBer.  Unfortunately they are both unsaved and while being a "good boy" he lives a pretty secular lifestyle. My wife and I are not even sure if they are going to allow our pastor to marry them yet as the wedding is at a hotel along with the reception and rehearsal dinner. Our beliefs are known by them and we are paying for the rehearsal dinner with NO money towards alcohol.  I have read that it is customary to "toast" at these rehearsals and of course the wedding reception too.  Is this acceptable in God's eyes if we are drinking water? 

 

At previous weddings we have just skipped this.  But would that be considered rude and cause hurt feelings? also they are having alcohol and a DJ at the reception.  We want no part of either but feel confused about things like the Mother/Son dance and the like. I feel like I know what I should do but am unsure how to preserve hurt feelings or appearing rude?

 

Thanks- Jebarr

 

HI,

 

Our first son is going to marry his fiance this OctOBer.  Unfortunately they are both unsaved and while being a "good boy" he lives a pretty secular lifestyle. My wife and I are not even sure if they are going to allow our pastor to marry them yet as the wedding is at a hotel along with the reception and rehearsal dinner. Our beliefs are known by them and we are paying for the rehearsal dinner with NO money towards alcohol.  I have read that it is customary to "toast" at these rehearsals and of course the wedding reception too.  Is this acceptable in God's eyes if we are drinking water? 

 

At previous weddings we have just skipped this.  But would that be considered rude and cause hurt feelings? also they are having alcohol and a DJ at the reception.  We want no part of either but feel confused about things like the Mother/Son dance and the like. I feel like I know what I should do but am unsure how to preserve hurt feelings or appearing rude?

 

Thanks- Jebarr

 

You can say a few words or make a short speech or prayer to supplant the secular toast.

 

However, since the scriptures are clear on booze and we're not even to look at it, I'd honor God and not go.  Your son should honor you too and not have the booze.  The DJ is another reason to stay home, sounds like a typical secular drunken revelry in the making.  I used to indulge in such, not anymore as I love the Lord more than any man.  You want to be there when the swanky music plays and he removes that frilly thing from her leg and throws it to the crowd???

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Wow - you're assuming a lot here.  Why don't we wait til jebarr tells us the music is "swanky" (I know of a number of DJ'd receptions that played quite good music - the DJ simply made sure it was done right) and that she's going to pull a garter off her leg.  Not all weddings do that - even in the unsaved realm.

 

If going to a wedding where there is alcohol is wrong, why did Jesus go to one? There's no way anyone will convince me (and you can't use scripture because it doesn't say) that there wasn't alcohol served during the three days of feasting...

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In such matters I read what Scripture says, take the matter to the Lord in prayer, and then follow God.

 

If hurt feelings do result, better to hurt their feelings than to disrespect God. We have a decided lack of understanding what it means to fear God. This shows often when we are more concerned with how other people feel or think than we do with what God thinks of the matter.

 

It's not always easy to actually follow Christ, even Christ Himself said we should count the cost and decide if we truly want to follow Him or not.

 

The last wedding situation I faced like this the concerns were all very similar. In our case we were told we shouldn't be concerned, there would only be a little drinking, the music (secular) wouldn't be too loud and things would be okay. That's not how it seemed to me, I kindly expressed that along with my biblical reasons I wouldn't participate. As it turned out, many people got drunk and ended up spending the night in the hotel, the music was loud and the more drunk people got, the more unwholesome the dancing became. Several people were upset and hurt because we didn't participate, but none of them have raised the issue in years now and we are glad to have stood with the Lord rather than giving in to peer pressure, though it was a difficult matter to face.

 

I pray the Lord will give you clear guidance in this matter, along with wisdom and strength to carry you through.

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Well, it isn't just the son's decision, so it's not just about him respecting them...there is also the fiance to consider, and her family. A wedding is not done in a vacuum, and many people are involved when plans are made.

The decision belongs to whomever is paying for it. He who holds the cash... Edited by Arbo

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Thank you all so very much for your insight. I can say I agree with everyone's viewpoint about taking this to the Lord and we have been in much prayer about it.  This boy is our oldest of four children and his brother is getting married next year. Similar situation but we do know that they are having our IFB pastor perform the ceremony at least.  I know that I have to make a stand for God and cannot compromise my morals but I am not sure that I can totally skip the reception.  We are staying in the hotel too, so we may be able to just leave when the alcohol and dancing get going.  That way we are able to participate in at least some of it.

 

I like the idea of toasting with water or soda- I just did not know if that would be bad testimony or not.

 

I do think my wife would have say on what song is picked out for that mother/son dance so that may help.  Even though we abstain from dancing normally.

 

My wife doesn't want to have hurt feelings as grand kids will prOBably be entering the picture next year and the future fiance seems very much in charge in the relationship. So we try the best we can to maintain good relations, invite them to church all the time, and pray for them everyday.

 

We know that this is their day but everyday is the Lord's to us so we will make our concerns known before hand and hopefully talk this out so that everyone knows the expectations for that day.

 

Thank you all so much for your help in this matter again.  I think we may have a meeting with our pastor too.

 

Jebarr

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If going to a wedding where there is alcohol is wrong, why did Jesus go to one? There's no way anyone will convince me (and you can't use scripture because it doesn't say) that there wasn't alcohol served during the three days of feasting...

 

Jesus did not go to a wedding where booze was served.  He would not violate the Scriptures, we're not even to look at it.  Jesus cannot sin, did not sin.  The Scriptures don't say anything about bounce houses being there either for the children.  Let the Lord convince you, look up the 200+ verses dealing with booze again.

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...the future fiance seems very much in charge in the relationship. ...and pray for them everyday.

 


Ohh boy!  My little brother and his wife play games with giving my folks access to their children and it hurts them very deeply.  Hopefully they'll (your kids and my brother) get right with the Lord sooner than later.

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If going to a wedding where there is alcohol is wrong, why did Jesus go to one? There's no way anyone will convince me (and you can't use scripture because it doesn't say) that there wasn't alcohol served during the three days of feasting...

 

Jesus did not go to a wedding where booze was served.  He would not violate the Scriptures, we're not even to look at it.  Jesus cannot sin, did not sin.  The Scriptures don't say anything about bounce houses being there either for the children.  Let the Lord convince you, look up the 200+ verses dealing with booze again.

 
Of course Jesus went to places where sinners were, that's the whole point. Some people would no doubt have been drinking at Levi's house too, as well as doing whatever else. If we say 'there's no way Jesus would have come within a mile of where people were sinning' then we negate why He came and dwelt among us. 

 
Mark 2:15-17 And it came to pass, that, as Jesus sat at meat in his house, many publicans and sinners sat also together with Jesus and his disciples: for there were many, and they followed him. And when the scribes and Pharisees saw him eat with publicans and sinners, they said unto his disciples, How is it that he eateth and drinketh with publicans and sinners? When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

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Proverbs 23:29-32 Who hath woe? who hath sorrow? who hath contentions? who hath babbling? who hath wounds without cause? who hath redness of eyes? 30 They that tarry long at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine. 31 Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright. 32 At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder.

 

The word look used in these verses has multiple meanings. It can mean to simply glance upon. It can also mean to gaze approvingly upon, to enjoy, experience. Looking at the full context I would have to say it is the latter definitions that are more appropriate than the former. One is hardly likely to suffer all the negative ramifications mentioned in these verses by simply gazing at a glass of alcohol; regardless how potent it may be.

 

Also, to think Jesus never cast his gaze upon an alcoholic beverage in all his journeys is a pretty significant stretch.

 

If you decide to shun an occasion like this strictly because you will not gaze upon alcohol, you had best walk exceedingly circumspectly for the remainder of your days, especially in the company of those whom you may have offended. You had best not be seen in a grocery store, restaurant, sporting event, or any social event, festival, etc. where alcohol is sold or consumed, and where your eye may fall upon an alcoholic beverage; Thou hypocrite.

 

Ultimately, jebarr, this is really between you and the Lord. What HC said in post #4 is wise advice and worthy of consideration. I have had several family weddings over the past couple years (brother, nieces and nephews) and we go, congratulate, stay for dinner, and respectfully part company shortly thereafter (before the music and alcohol really begin to flow). On several occasions I have even been asked to give the opening prayer which officially gives me occasion to inject scripture into the event. Specifically how marriage is a picture of our relationship with Christ once saved.

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Do not gaze approvingly upon...

In other words, don't approve of it.s use.

Abstain from every appearance of evil.

Does that glass of water have the same color as the wine that is being consumed? will drinking it or lifting it in a toast cause others to think you are also enjoying and approving of their wine?

Edited by Standing Firm In Christ

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Do not gaze approvingly upon...

In other words, don't approve of it.s use.

Abstain from every appearance of evil.

Does that glass of water have the same color as the wine that is being consumed? will drinking it or lifting it in a toast cause others to think you are also enjoying and approving of their wine?

 

When you go to a restaurant:

 

"Does that glass of water have the same color as the wine that is being consumed? will drinking it or lifting it in a toast cause others to think you are also enjoying and approving of their wine?"

 

Time to stop going to any restaurant that serves alcohol.

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Jesus did not go to a wedding where booze was served.  He would not violate the Scriptures, we're not even to look at it.  Jesus cannot sin, did not sin.  The Scriptures don't say anything about bounce houses being there either for the children.  Let the Lord convince you, look up the 200+ verses dealing with booze again.

Jesus went to a wedding where there was a many day feast, where the guests were drinking.  What He made was so good, it was surprising to the governor.  There is no indication that what the guests were drinking before that was not alcoholic. In fact, it likely was because of lack of refrigeration in those days.  That doesn't mean Jesus partook nor that He sinned - and it's dumb to even suggest that I or anyone would think that He did.  Nowhere did I say Jesus "looked" on it - if there was alcohol there, He most certainly did not partake.  That is possible, you know.

 

I don't need the Lord to convince me, thank you. And I've studied every single verse on alcohol that is in scripture, thank you again.  Nowhere does it say there wasn't alcohol at that wedding.  You add to scripture by assumption when you try to say there wasn't.

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When you go to a restaurant:

 

"Does that glass of water have the same color as the wine that is being consumed? will drinking it or lifting it in a toast cause others to think you are also enjoying and approving of their wine?"

 

Time to stop going to any restaurant that serves alcohol.

And grocery stores...

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As for stores, Linda and I avoid the alcohol aisle.

And the assumption that wine at the wedding feast was alcoholic is just that... Assumption.

The Fact that the taste buds of the governor were not dulled (which alcohol does to the drinker) is proof enough for me that alcohol was not present.

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Of course Jesus went to places where sinners were, that's the whole point. Some people would no doubt have been drinking at Levi's house too, as well as doing whatever else. If we say 'there's no way Jesus would have come within a mile of where people were sinning' then we negate why He came and dwelt among us. 

 

Wrong context.

 

There is no indication that what the guests were drinking before that was not alcoholic.

 

Nowhere does it say there wasn't alcohol at that wedding.  You add to scripture by assumption when you try to say there wasn't.

 

And nowhere does it say that there was booze at the wedding.  You add to scripture by adding YOUR assumptions.  Why does their have to be booze at every wedding, especially 2000 years ago?  Why do folks assume when drinking is mentioned that it was booze?

 

Saying that our Lord and Savior was at a party where booze was being served seems little different than...  well, it's really disappointment to read your comments on this.  

 

If someone wrote that they were with me yesterday and I was drinking all day long, many would automatically assume it was booze.  No, it was water and diet mountain dew.  

 

Yes, Christ was around sinners but he did not partake in nor associate with their sins; he rebuked sin. 

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Wrong context.
 

 
And nowhere does it say that there was booze at the wedding.  You add to scripture by adding YOUR assumptions.  Why does their have to be booze at every wedding, especially 2000 years ago?  Why do folks assume when drinking is mentioned that it was booze?
 
Saying that our Lord and Savior was at a party where booze was being served seems little different than...  well, it's really disappointment to read your comments on this.  
 
If someone wrote that they were with me yesterday and I was drinking all day long, many would automatically assume it was booze.  No, it was water and diet mountain dew.  
 
Yes, Christ was around sinners but he did not partake in nor associate with their sins; he rebuked sin.

Exactly! And there is no indication that Christ rebuked anyone for the use of alcohol at the Feast.

No mention by Him that some needed to go home and sleep off the effects of the wine.

I believe the text leans more to the fact that alcohol was not present at the Feast in Cana.

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Wrong context.

 

 

And nowhere does it say that there was booze at the wedding.  You add to scripture by adding YOUR assumptions.  Why does their have to be booze at every wedding, especially 2000 years ago?  Why do folks assume when drinking is mentioned that it was booze?

 

Saying that our Lord and Savior was at a party where booze was being served seems little different than...  well, it's really disappointment to read your comments on this.  

 

If someone wrote that they were with me yesterday and I was drinking all day long, many would automatically assume it was booze.  No, it was water and diet mountain dew.  

 

Yes, Christ was around sinners but he did not partake in nor associate with their sins; he rebuked sin. 

Actually, no I don't add to scripture, because I'm not assuming. Read carefully what I wrote.  There is the possibility of fermented grape juice having been at the wedding.  No assumption, just truth.  None of us can know for sure either way.  Why does 2000 years ago matter? You think there wasn't drunkenness then?  Go back even further in time to Noah's day, Lot, etc...there was drunkenness then, so alcoholic beverage existed way before Jesus' day.

 

You are purposely mis-reading and mis-stating what I said. I never said He WAS around any of it - I said there is no scripture to say He wasn't.  I'm disappointed in people who don't read things properly.... And no-one said He partook in anything sinful - so stop assuming that anyone did.

 

SFIC - you believe that, and that's great.  I actually believe that myself.  But guess what?  There's no scripture to definitively say there was absolutely no alcohol there.  And no-one can say there is...

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