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What Advice Do You Have Or Same-Sex Couples

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The situation is no different than same-sex marriage.  Especially if children are involved.  A family was established as a result of sinful behavior.  If the parties seek to follow God, the question becomes how does God want to work in the midst of their situation?  What does repentance mean?  How does God's grace work and create something good out of what was made from sinful actions?  

These things happen folks.  God's grace has to be present in some way for those who seek to follow him.  What does repentance mean in these situations and how is God's grace present? 

 

In review I see that HappyChristian, Jim's Helpmeet, Swathdiver, Arbo, and myself gave you reasoned responses as to why God may be able to work with divorced, remarried couples and not with homosexual couples. Yet you keep coming back with the save type of statements with apparently no heed to what has been provided through scripture or logic. It appears to me that you're primary goal here is to find some way to justify homosexuals in the church.

 

Let's try this: With regards to people that are in adulterous affairs and to all homosexuals, as Wlane stated: you exlude them...end of story.

 

It is a tragedy for the children, but unfortunately there are a lot of adults out there who's sin harms the innocent children within their care.

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But does God recognize a second marriage where husband has affair, leaves his wife, and remarries the woman he had an affair with?  I she conceived, it is no different than same sex marriage.  A family was established through sinful behavior. 

 

How does one in this situation repent?  Must husband leave wife 2 and go back to wife 1?  Stay with wife 2 and the child?  How does the grace of God work in this situation?  I believe it does, but it takes time to heal. For one, I think what is done is done and the husband must go forward with wife 2. I think it would cause more pain to divorce a second time.

But this is no different than a same-sex couple who have conceived through artificial insemination or committed to raising children together through adoption. A family was born out of sinful actions.  So how can the family be preserved, and God work in their lives?  I believe he does and he can.

 

Knowing children who have same-sex parents, I cannot fathom that God would want that family broken apart.  I tend to think that God may call them to celibacy and complete the task for raising the children.  Them separating is akin to divorce and would be very painful to the children involved. 

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But a same sex union is not in any way God endorsed.

The very fact of it being a homosexual union means that it is not and can never be considered the same as a marriage.

Until you recognise and accept that biblical fact you will never come to accept a biblical solution to your questions.

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I know several same-sex couples who are very healthy families.  One couple I knew raised children together and were committed for 40 years before her partner died.  Their children are productive, healthy, happy people today.  Another couple has a son in my daughter's class.  One of the strongest families I know.  One mother a doctor, the other a stay at home mother, and the child is very intelligent, well rounded, kind, and loving. 

 

I'm not saying starting a family like that is right.  But where there is a family, there God can and does work through those situations. 

 

I don't see it any differently than where there was an affair.  It is a broken, situation.  But there is room for the healing and grace of God to work therein without causing more pain and tearing apart a family. 

 

All I am saying is we will see families like this.  My question is how the church should reach them.  I do not think the answer is to merely exclude and reject them until they separate.

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And yes, same sex couples have children together.  I have worked with clients who have committed to having children together, gone to a sperm bank, conceived through in vitro, and are raising children together today.  The non-biological mother has now officially adopted her children.  Legally, they are recognized as the children of both.

 

I am adopted.  My mother did not conceive me.  Yet she is my mother.  It is no different.  A parent is the person who loves you unconditionally and has committed their life to raising you and providing for you.  My mother and father are not biological, but they are my mother and father.  Legally and emotionally.  Children of same-sex couples are no different. 

 

I know several same-sex families who are much stronger than heterosexual families I have come across who do not provide or love their children, and are so terrible that I'm not certain I would call them parents at all.

 

It is inconceivable to me that someone would want to take a child away from a same-sex couple who has been excellent parents to that child.  That is why I think adoption is so important in same-sex couples cases.  If the biological mother dies, a family who does not approve could try to take the child away from the other mother.  Legal adoption is tremendously important in those cases. 

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And yes, same sex couples have children together. I have worked with clients who have committed to having children together, gone to a sperm bank, conceived through in vitro, and are raising children together today. The non-biological mother has now officially adopted her children. Legally, they are recognized as the children of both.

I am adopted. My mother did not conceive me. Yet she is my mother. It is no different. A parent is the person who loves you unconditionally and has committed their life to raising you and providing for you. My mother and father are not biological, but they are my mother and father. Legally and emotionally. Children of same-sex couples are no different.

I know several same-sex families who are much stronger than heterosexual families I have come across who do not provide or love their children, and are so terrible that I'm not certain I would call them parents at all.

It is inconceivable to me that someone would want to take a child away from a same-sex couple who has been excellent parents to that child. That is why I think adoption is so important in same-sex couples cases. If the biological mother dies, a family who does not approve could try to take the child away from the other mother. Legal adoption is tremendously important in those cases.

Homosexuals are unable to love.
They are consumed by lust.
Your judgement of what is "healthy" is very skewed by this present World.

The Truth will separate, and offend, and they won't stay long in a "healthy" church.

;)

Anishinaabe

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And this brings me back to my original question.

 

Where the legal reality in our society is that same-sex couple are married, and adopt children, what does repentance mean?

 

I think this is the last I will say on the topic because we are going in circles now.  But I tend to think celibacy in those cases is the way to go.  I cannot fathom God wanting to break up that family.  I think the church should be loving to such families and welcome them to participate.  If they have made a vow of celibacy, I would not have a prOBlem with membership.  Surely, where God can work all things together for good, can work good out of a same-sex family who wants to follow him and is trying to do so.  Is the situation ideal?  No it isn't, but neither are many family situations.  Yet when people turn to God, listen, and begin to follow him, God can work in the situation they are in. 

 

If my same-sex couple friends asked if they could come to church with me, I would say absolutely.  I'd make no judgments on them, and allow God to speak to them as he sees fit.  I'd love them and their children, and talk to them about the love of Christ.  God is big enough that I just have to speak the love of Christ, and he can speak to them.

 

Again, I brought this up because we have legal realities.  I think the church really needs to think about this and decide how it will reach and include these couples when they couples may express an interest in spiritual matters.

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And yes, same sex couples have children together. I have worked with clients who have committed to having children together, gone to a sperm bank, conceived through in vitro,

 

Legally, they are recognized as the children of both.

 

I can certainly tell that you are a lawyer with all your word games. Same sex couples do NOT have children TOGETHER. They may go to the sperm bank together but only one is getting fertalized. The DNA of the child is not a blend of the two, but only of one and some other unknown (typically). Stop trying to fit the worlds legaleze and sin into a proper Biblical relationship with God. Just because man calls something legal does not make it right with God. There are many things that man deems legal that are only legal so man can feel comfortable in his sin.

 

You are OBviously committed to accepting homosexuals into your life and your church regardless what the Bible has to say about it. You're the lawyer, draw up the words that make it work for you. Governments (and unfortunately many churches) have been doing it for years.

Edited by 282Mikado

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Mikado.  I have no DNA in common with my mother and father.  I am the product of a teenager having sex and getting pregnant at the age of 15.  My mother and father adopted me. Legally, I am seen no differently then a biological child.  That is the beauty of adoption.  Though genetically unrelated, legally, I have full rights and am fully recognized as their child.  They had me together.  They decided together they wanted a child and adopted me.  No different that God adopts us as his children.

 

Same-sex couples can legally adopt.  They are recognized as the parents under the law.  Both of them.  They committed together to having a child.  They have the same rights, duties and OBligations to that child.  They love the child no differently than my parents loved me. 

 

I'm have no agenda.  I'm discussing how churches should deal with these legally binding relationships.  There are legal realities and spiritual realities.  I'm discussing how the church should deal with these legal realities when there are children involved.

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The laws of men don't change the law of God.

 

Homosexuality is a sin.

 

Sex outside of what God declares is marriage is a matter of lust, which is sin, not love.

 

Christians are called to live in accord with the Word of God above any man made laws.

 

Are you placing God first and submitting to Him or bowing before humanism?

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I know several same-sex couples who are very healthy families.  One couple I knew raised children together and were committed for 40 years before her partner died.  Their children are productive, healthy, happy people today.  Another couple has a son in my daughter's class.  One of the strongest families I know.  One mother a doctor, the other a stay at home mother, and the child is very intelligent, well rounded, kind, and loving. 

 

 

But are they saved and mature Christians producing more saved and mature Christians? If the answer is no then it's not a healthy family and the children aren't well-rounded.

 

All I am saying is we will see families like this.  My question is how the church should reach them.  I do not think the answer is to merely exclude and reject them until they separate.

 

With the gospel presented unapologetically but with love. The Holy Spirit will do the rest.

 

And yes, same sex couples have children together.  I have worked with clients who have committed to having children together, gone to a sperm bank, conceived through in vitro, and are raising children together today.  The non-biological mother has now officially adopted her children.  Legally, they are recognized as the children of both.

 

It is inconceivable to me that someone would want to take a child away from a same-sex couple who has been excellent parents to that child.  That is why I think adoption is so important in same-sex couples cases.  If the biological mother dies, a family who does not approve could try to take the child away from the other mother.  Legal adoption is tremendously important in those cases. 

 

You're confusing U.S. legal provisions with God's. Just because the government considers someone a legal parent doesn't mean God does. What's meant by there only being one parent is that a same-sex couple MUST rely on a third individual to produce a child and one of them will have absolutely no biological part in it. In order for that child to be concieved, they had to have gone outside the bounds of God's established family structure and outside God's process for procreation. What they've effectively done is to remove God from the process in order to fulfill their own desires of having children. That is called self-will, and God absolutely hates it because it's the root of all sin.

 

Further, it doesn't matter how loving parents are by society's standard. If they're not bringing those children up in the nuruture and admonition of the Lord, they are failing their responsibility as parents. It would be better that they had no children than to teach children to live an ungodly life. In light of Matt 18:6, it is inconceivable to me that a professing Christian would encourage and enable a child to be raise in a home guaranteed to raise them contrary to the Bible. You might not be able to do anything to remove a child from such an unsafe situation, but I can't imagine how any Christian could justify condoning it and claim to be following Jesus.

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This post is long, but it is so to make a point. KOB has been told over and over and over how a church should go about Biblically handling homosexuality and he keeps going back to his humanistic legalese and opinions over the Bible.

 

Again, just because something is legal does not make it scriptural or God honored. There is a big difference between your adoptive parents and homosexual parents. If your parents were completely healthy and fertile they could have naturally conceived and had children with no outside influence but God’s grace. That is not true with the homosexual. Hence homosexuality is not natural and is not a part of God’s design. God calls it abhorrent, and reprOBate. Just because YOU think it is okay to be in the church does not mean God does. I am much more interested in what God thinks than any man. It’s mans thinking that consistently gets us into trouble.

 

You keep tossing around the word “legally” as if it has the same weight as “biblically”.

 

Isaiah 55:8-9 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. 9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

 

As far as the heavens are higher than the earth so is the Bible higher than your best legal book, college, or institution.

 

You keep saying that these couples can stay together but remain celibate. And who is going to monitor this celibacy. Are we going to take their word for it? Let me ask you, would you recommend that a drunk remain sOBer while keeping a six pack in the refrigerator at all times? Would you recommend an ex-smoker keep a pack of cigarettes in his breast pocket? Or a recovering addict some crack cocaine in the cupboard?

 

Here are multiple posts made with regards to your question of how a church should deal with the “legal” realities of homosexual couples. All state that they should deal with them Biblically.

 

From Prophet1:

"Homosexual" is not our verbiage. We quote this:
Lev 20:13; Rom 1:25-27
Those who practice unnatural sexual relationships, are not compatable with our Faith.

Case by case, but , yes...Adultery has to be addressed, it is commanded.
1Co 5:11-13
11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? 13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

 

Homosexuals are unable to love.  They are consumed by lust.
Your judgment of what is "healthy" is very skewed by this present World.
The Truth will separate, and offend, and they won't stay long in a "healthy" church.

 

From JimsHelpmeet:

Our church bylaws state that anyone who is living in a state of unrepentant sexual sin (be it adultery, fornication, or homosexuality) they will not be eligible for a position in church service. They are also subject to church discipline, should the situation arise after becoming a member. She also stated that they should not live together in response to your question.

Lastly, God does not recognize any sodomite relationship as a "marriage", regardless of what they believe or the state they live in. Legally, they are married, but they never will be in God's eyes. So asking them to separate in the spirit of repentance is not inconsistent, or hypocritical, if the church doesn't force the same thing on divorced and remarried heterosexuals.

 

From Linda R

A "gay Christian" is an oxymoron....there is no such thing as a "gay" Christian.  Gay Christians don't exist. Gay is simply a euphemism (a "kinder" word) for the biblical word sodomite.  According to Scripture, sodomites will not inherit the kingdom of God:
1 Corinthians 6:9-11

IOW, there will be no sodomites in heaven!  Those who are saved and call themselves Christians are new creatures in Christ Jesus:
2 Corinthians 5:17

 

From SFIC

what did Jesus say about one lusting after a woman in one's heart? Guilty of adultery.
Same standard... One does not have to act physically to be guilty of being a sodomite. There must be a turning from sin and a turning toward God. Turning from does not mean keeping it at your door.

 

From ASOD

If they come to your church and would like to join then your pastor isn't doing something right. 

 

From Steve Schwenke:

This may seem to be shocking to some here, but I know this from experience.  The scenario described here is nothing more than sodomites attempting to live outside of the boundaries of Scripture.  These types of people who have hardened their hearts against God already (see Romans 1:18-32) need to repent of their sin, which includes "breaking up" with their sodomite "partner."  God calls that sin an abomination.

 

From Arbo:

To the best of my recollection, divorce is not called an abomination like homosexuality is.

 

From HC:

KOB, in all reality, you are comparing apples to oranges with the comparison of a same-sex relationship to a divorce/remarriage relationship.  God recognizes marriage between a man and a woman - not between same-sex couples, so the comparison is not a valid one.

 Yes, divorce is sin.  And God hates it.  But He has made allowances for it in scripture - unlike same-sex relationships, which He has labeled abomination. He has made it plain that when a remarriage takes place it is not to be dissolved.  He has said a lot about it throughout scripture.  But He has never compared the consequences of a divorce to same-sex relationships because, again, there is no comparison.

 

From Swathdiver:

A sodomite is not a candidate for church membership, regenerated people only.

Sodomites are unregenerated people who are not eligible for membership in a New Testament Church of the kind that Jesus Christ built and died for.  The first thing you do with them is share the gospel.  If they repent and accept Christ as Lord and Savior, with a new heart and new desires and the Holy Ghost within them, they begin to get in accord with God and become eligible for church membership.

 

From Me:

From this (in my mind) I see that God abhors adultery and homosexuality, but he can work with the former (pending repentance) because it is still a union between a man and a woman which is the natural order of things as He designed it (See Gen 2:21-25). Homosexuality has always been unseemly and an abomination. God did not design us this way. I think this is evident when you look at the many studies that have been done that show the life expectancy of gay and bisexual men is 8 to 21 years less than normal. The only true repentance from this sin is to terminate and abstain from such relationships.

 

From wlane:

yes you exclude them end of story

 

From DaveW:

But a same sex union is not in any way God endorsed.
The very fact of it being a homosexual union means that it is not and can never be considered the same as a marriage.
Until you recognise and accept that biblical fact you will never come to accept a biblical solution to your questions.

 

You have been answered but in typical lawyer fashion you keep avoiding the truth and mixing words just to get your client exonerated. You don't want the Bible, you want acceptance. Rereading all your posts I see that you want it YOUR way, not Gods.

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Oh, goodness! Where to begin?

Okay, but this isn't the same thing as a sodomite couple. For starters, even in a situation where a man sins, has an affair, and marries his mistress the marriage, itself, is in the model of what God expects - one man and one woman legally, and spiritually, bound. They can both ask God to forgive them of their sin of adultery and their marriage will be sanctified. A sodomite relationship does not qualify, because it's an abomination from the get-go. Nowhere in the Bible does God even hint that two men or two women can have a relationship that will be honored by Him. Why? Because even when adultery occurs between a man and a woman, the intimate act itself is not called an abomination, nor vile affections. Adultery is a sin, yes, and all sin is sin; however, a homosexual union is an aberration.

 

God doesn't want families to be broken apart, but He also expects us not to put ourselves in situations where innocent children will be brought into sexually deviant relationships where the children will be hurt in the process of their parents repenting. You seem to think that God is concerned with our happiness. That's worldly. Our happiness is oftentimes contingent upon indulging the lusts of our flesh. God is concerned with our holiness, full stop, no exceptions. 

 

I will be so bold as to say you don't know any healthy, functional sodomite family, because truly functional, healthy relationships honor the Lord. Any relationship that does not honor the Lord is in a state of dysfunction, because being outside of God's plan leads to chaos and constant inner turmoil. You are justifying something the Lord calls an abomination by claiming you know sodomite couples with children who have great careers and seem happy from all outside appearances. I knew a woman once who was successful. She shacked up with her boyfriend, because marriage was for suckers. She wasn't about to be tied down. She got pregnant, had an abortion, and got a promotion at work. I guess by your estimation she was in a healthy relationship as well, just because surface appearances would attest to her success and happienss.

 

Children are the innocent byproducts on sinful unions every single day. They are not beyond God's reach, but to make excuses for abominable behavior just because someone has a child is so wrong. That's like saying we should let a child be raised by a pimp because, hey, it's better than having no dad at all. 

 

The prOBlem we're having in this discussion with you, KOB, is that you seem to operate under the misguided premise that God's view of repentance changes based upon local legalities and cultural norms. It doesn't. God's system of repentance remains unchanged.

 

But you do have an agenda. You did not merely ask an innocent question. You asked, and then keep coming back with all of these personal anecdotes about all of these awesomesauce sodomite "families" you know and how we're somehow supposed to change our view of accepting these types of couples into our churches, just because you think legalities and having children change God's perception of their relationship. 

 

Here is how the church deals with it - you call it what it is. Sin. You preach the truth in love. You make it abundantly clear that they are welcome to visit, but they are not, under any uncertain terms, to promote their abominable lifestyle to church members, and they will not be allowed to enter into the body of believers without repentance. Repentance, in this case, would mean parting ways and dividing assets in accordance with the laws under which they were married, and then separating and pursuing God's holiness for their lives. 

 

I used to attend church with a gay man. The church I attended was so desperate for a music minister that they allowed him in and then turned a blind eye to his sin. They tried to pretend he wasn't a sodomite simply to justify their decision. And this was a Southern Baptist church! He claimed he was a homosexual, but celibate. When he was caught by a deacon holding hands with another man while shopping at a furniture store one day, he claimed they were "just old friends from college". Come to find out, he was his live-in lover and they were buying furnishings for the new home they just bought. When our church pianist passed away, he brought his lover in to replace her! The final straw was when he was allowed to go on a youth mission trip to Amsterdam. He was caught taking two teenage boys from the youth group to a gay brothel. He died of AIDS three years later, still acting in the capacity of music minister of the church. This isn't idle gossip. He admitted all of these things himself as soon as he realized he was going to die.

 

These are the consequences of allowing unrepentant sodomites into the fellowship for the sake of being politically correct, nice, or because there is a shortage of members to fill leadership roles in the church. Homosexuals have joined churches, claimed they were single and celibate, and have divided churches by recruiting young people. They cause confusion. I've heard stories of sodomites befriending married men, allowing them to confide personal marriage struggles, and then seducing them. They use churches to abuse children. Without repentance, there is no fellowship. Period. That seems harsh, and hateful, to the world, but hey, the narrow path is called narrow for a reason.

 

:goodpost: Amen sister!


Edited by LindaR

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Ok.  I'll leave the topic of same sex marriage and how the church should respond. 

 

But in my follow up question, if a husband marries his mistress, has children by wife 1, and children by wife 2, that is a very toxic situation for the children.  Wife 1 will always be hurt and struggle with anger, rejection, etc.  Does God honor the second marriage?  Does the Bible not say that if one divorces, they should not remarry?  I need to pull out the reference.  If so, isn't the husband continuing to live in an adulterous relationship with his mistress?  If wife 1 wants to reconcile and husband ignores her and divorces and marries wife 2, then has children with her, what is repentance?  What does it require? 

 

 What if husband and wife 2 want to joint the same church as wife 1?  Which must stay and which must go?  Wife 1 will be sick seeing her husband and mistress in church every week.  It is a terrible, terrible situation that seems to me must be dealt with in some manner.  Does the husband repent by not going back to wife 1? 

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Ok.  I'll leave the topic of same sex marriage and how the church should respond. 

 

But in my follow up question, if a husband marries his mistress, has children by wife 1, and children by wife 2, that is a very toxic situation for the children.  Wife 1 will always be hurt and struggle with anger, rejection, etc.  Does God honor the second marriage?  Does the Bible not say that if one divorces, they should not remarry?  I need to pull out the reference.  If so, isn't the husband continuing to live in an adulterous relationship with his mistress?  If wife 1 wants to reconcile and husband ignores her and divorces and marries wife 2, then has children with her, what is repentance?  What does it require? 

 

 What if husband and wife 2 want to joint the same church as wife 1?  Which must stay and which must go?  Wife 1 will be sick seeing her husband and mistress in church every week.  It is a terrible, terrible situation that seems to me must be dealt with in some manner.  Does the husband repent by not going back to wife 1? 

You're right - it is a most unfortunate situation for the children to be in. Blended families are hard work, and there are oftentimes many hurt feelings and resentment along the way. That is a consequence of the sin, itself. The fact remains that God's model for marriage is one man and one woman. It really is very simple. We complicate it by throwing our feelings into the mix. The topic of homosexuality is most difficult to approach, because it is likely most of us have a former friend, or even a close relative, who is in a sodomite relationship. Our personal feelings of wanting that person to feel loved and accepted will make it all the more difficult to accept God's Truth about the issue. 

 

As to your scenario, it is most unlikely that a woman jilted by her husband would seek membership at a church where he attends with his new wife and children. Even so, God makes it clear in His Word that when we love Christ, we will seek to forgive and live peaceably with other believers.

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Have to say I'm also a bit thrown by the claim being made by several on here that if one is adulterous and divorces and remarries, then so long as the couple repent, the marriage becomes sanctified and every bit as legitimate in God's eyes as any other marriage. The justification given is that man-woman marriages are otherwise fine, so it's just the adultery that needs dealing with.

 

To me this sounds bizarre because of how OBviously wrong it seems in other situations. For example, lets say I steal £1,000 and get away with it. If I genuinely repent of that theft, does God then approve of me keeping the money because having money is not by itself sinful?

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This post is long, but it is so to make a point. KOB has been told over and over and over how a church should go about Biblically handling homosexuality and he keeps going back to his humanistic legalese and opinions over the Bible...

 

You have been answered but in typical lawyer fashion you keep avoiding the truth and mixing words just to get your client exonerated. You don't want the Bible, you want acceptance. Rereading all your posts I see that you want it YOUR way, not Gods.

 

The tragic reality here is that OPer hasn't a clue.  For the Bible says:

 

"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." - 1 Corinthians 2:14

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Have to say I'm also a bit thrown by the claim being made by several on here that if one is adulterous and divorces and remarries, then so long as the couple repent, the marriage becomes sanctified and every bit as legitimate in God's eyes as any other marriage. The justification given is that man-woman marriages are otherwise fine, so it's just the adultery that needs dealing with.

 

To me this sounds bizarre because of how OBviously wrong it seems in other situations. For example, lets say I steal £1,000 and get away with it. If I genuinely repent of that theft, does God then approve of me keeping the money because having money is not by itself sinful?

The marriage will be sanctified through repentance. In this case, repentance comes through not committing two sins. To divorce again is just as much of a sin as divorcing in the first place. In the case of stealing money, the money belongs to someone else. In the case of divorce, I'm not sure where people in churches today get this idea of "permanent soul ties". It seems very "mystical" to me, and I certainly can't find it in the Bible. Yes, the Bible says we become one flesh, but I don't see where this is a soul issue or that once the wife has been "put away" by her husband, that they are still "soul tied" to one another. Therefore, the divorced spouses are not the "property" of another person, the way stolen money would be.

 

I read an article once while doing research about divorce and remarriage about "soul ties". This seems to be a largely charismatic concept. One said that demonic soul ties are linked to things like gifts given to you by someone you formed an unholy soul tie with, and how they must be burned to break the soul tie. That you must, "pray the spirit of the Lord" against those soul ties. 

 

I do want to say that I am not, by any means, advocating that people take their marriage vows flippantly. But I do believe that even marriages that are the result of adultery can be forgiven by God, and that divorcing again would be sinful. God's Word says so in Deuteronomy. In fact, God told the Israelites that if they divorced a second spouse to reunite with the first it would defile their spouse and displease the Lord. OBviously God takes divorcing a subsequent spouse just as seriously as divorcing the first one, even if the marriage was entered into under sinful terms.

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Very real scenario:

 

Two women have lived together for 12 years in a same-sex relationship.  They have gone to another state to get legally married and now reside in your state.  Through in vitro fertilization and an anonymous sperm donor through a sperm bank, they have conceived and are raising three children, ages 6, 4 and 6 months.  They come to your church and would like to join.

 

What do you do?  What do you tell them?  What position should the church take on this?  This puts two sins in at odds.  Homosexuality and divorce.  Maybe.  Perhaps they have decided to remain celibate.  No one has ever asked my wife and I about our sex lives, so should we ask about theirs? 

 

I am curious to know what your advice would be.  Here we have three children who are well cared for, love their mothers, and are excelling in every area of life.  If you advise them to separate and "divorce" (that is what would occur, no matter what you call it), the children would be harmed.  If you advise them to stay together, do you tell them they have to be celibate?

 

How should the church address same-sex families in these situations?  How can the church possibly reach them if we advocate tearing their family apart? 

I am friends with a couple in this very situation. I never hear Christians talk about the realities, and am curious as to your thoughts:

 

1.  How do you know this couple is having sex, which is prohibited in the Bible?  If they are celibate, are they still sinning? 

 

2.  When children and assets are involved, and breaking them up, if you say that is what they must do, how do you decide who gets custody of children?  Who gets the house?  Who gets money in the bank account? 

 

I'm not interested in a debate as the morality or immorality of same-sex sex.  I am interested in the realities of people who are living as families and are legally married, and how the church should address these situations.  Do we just turn them away?  Do we maintain and respect their families and tell them to abstain from sex? 

 

I would like to say this very LOUDLY.

 

This will not happen. Anyone who are/is in a perverted situation as this 'couple', are in a state of reprOBation, as per Romans chapter one. Period.

They will not OBserve God and His law for what they are.

Now if they repent and 'destroy' their situation, they become as anyone else seeking the ways of the Lord. But if they do not 'destroy' this type of relationship, they are none of His.

 

Check out 1 Corinthians 6 and you will see the phrase, " and such were some of you...".

 

They need to become, each, a real woman, and disavow any type of relationship with each other, to prove they are really trying to follow God and His word.

 

If they are living as 'in love' with each other in any way shape or form, they are not sincere.

 

Either way, what in the world would they want to be members for? Just to infiltrate their so called lifestyle in the face of Christianity.

 

Let society close the doors of the churches! It is better to OBey God rather than man!!

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Ok.  I'll leave the topic of same sex marriage and how the church should respond. 

 

But in my follow up question, if a husband marries his mistress, has children by wife 1, and children by wife 2, that is a very toxic situation for the children.  Wife 1 will always be hurt and struggle with anger, rejection, etc.  Does God honor the second marriage?  Does the Bible not say that if one divorces, they should not remarry?  I need to pull out the reference.  If so, isn't the husband continuing to live in an adulterous relationship with his mistress?  If wife 1 wants to reconcile and husband ignores her and divorces and marries wife 2, then has children with her, what is repentance?  What does it require? 

 

 What if husband and wife 2 want to joint the same church as wife 1?  Which must stay and which must go?  Wife 1 will be sick seeing her husband and mistress in church every week.  It is a terrible, terrible situation that seems to me must be dealt with in some manner.  Does the husband repent by not going back to wife 1? 

 

What if Husband 1 and Wife 1 love each other growing closer to God and each other everyday while walking in His likeness? If we stick to God's design and plan we won't have all of these "what ifs". :jaw:

Edited by jebarr

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