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What Advice Do You Have Or Same-Sex Couples


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  • Advanced Member

Very real scenario:

 

Two women have lived together for 12 years in a same-sex relationship.  They have gone to another state to get legally married and now reside in your state.  Through in vitro fertilization and an anonymous sperm donor through a sperm bank, they have conceived and are raising three children, ages 6, 4 and 6 months.  They come to your church and would like to join.

 

What do you do?  What do you tell them?  What position should the church take on this?  This puts two sins in at odds.  Homosexuality and divorce.  Maybe.  Perhaps they have decided to remain celibate.  No one has ever asked my wife and I about our sex lives, so should we ask about theirs? 

 

I am curious to know what your advice would be.  Here we have three children who are well cared for, love their mothers, and are excelling in every area of life.  If you advise them to separate and "divorce" (that is what would occur, no matter what you call it), the children would be harmed.  If you advise them to stay together, do you tell them they have to be celibate?

 

How should the church address same-sex families in these situations?  How can the church possibly reach them if we advocate tearing their family apart? 

I am friends with a couple in this very situation. I never hear Christians talk about the realities, and am curious as to your thoughts:

 

1.  How do you know this couple is having sex, which is prohibited in the Bible?  If they are celibate, are they still sinning? 

 

2.  When children and assets are involved, and breaking them up, if you say that is what they must do, how do you decide who gets custody of children?  Who gets the house?  Who gets money in the bank account? 

 

I'm not interested in a debate as the morality or immorality of same-sex sex.  I am interested in the realities of people who are living as families and are legally married, and how the church should address these situations.  Do we just turn them away?  Do we maintain and respect their families and tell them to abstain from sex? 

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In God's eyes, they are not married... Even if another state performed the ceremony. As to letting them join the Church, a definite no. Unless of course, they separate and repent of their wickedn

.

Well...first I don't think it pits one sin against another because, as SFIC said, they are not married according to God's definition of marriage. While legally it may be divorce, spiritually it is a r

  • Advanced Member

And what about it do you find vile and wicked?
 

I presented a very real scenario.  One that I have seen occur in the last church I was a part of.  One that I have encountered with some neighbors on my street.

 

I am sorry if you find it vile.  But this is the real world.  These are real scenarios that the church needs to be prepared to address.  There are same sex couple who are legally married.  Everywhere.  My neighbors were legally married in Vermont and have three children.  I described a situation.  One that will occur with more and more frequency in the coming years.  The church must have answers. To date they do not.

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Sword.  I see what you are saying, but what does that mean in this scenario?  Does it mean that the couple should separate?  If so, who decides how to divide their bank account?  Who keeps the house they purchased?  What if one was an income earner such as a doctor and the other a stay at home mother?  Should the doctor pay alimony to the stay at home mother? 

 

Who decides which spouse keeps the children?  Who decides visitation rights? 

 

How should the church answer all of these questions?  If the church say the couple must split and divorce, then it seems to me the church needs to have answers to these questions.

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Sword.  I see what you are saying, but what does that mean in this scenario?  Does it mean that the couple should separate?  If so, who decides how to divide their bank account?  Who keeps the house they purchased?  What if one was an income earner such as a doctor and the other a stay at home mother?  Should the doctor pay alimony to the stay at home mother? 

 

Who decides which spouse keeps the children?  Who decides visitation rights? 

 

How should the church answer all of these questions?  If the church say the couple must split and divorce, then it seems to me the church needs to have answers to these questions.

 

I disagree that it is on the church to answer such questions. As a secular insititution, homosexual marriage and subsequent divorce should be handled according to secular laws. Anything I offer on the topic is simply my opinion. Were I the pastor in such a case, the only thing I would even begin to weigh in on is to recommend (not decree) custody to the biological mother. Money and material is between the two parties. It must be understood that the church is not forcing a divorce, merely setting it as a condition for membership. They are free to choose not to seek church membership. One condition for people coming into my house is not to be drunk. Everyone has the choice to either not drink or sOBer up before knocking on my door, but I am in no way forcing them not to drink.

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I can see not letting them join.  What policy should a church have as to their involvement if they choose to keep their family together?  Should their children be allowed to take part on children activities?  Should they, as a couple, be permitted to help out in the children's area?  Help prepare snacks for VBS?  Should they be allowed to volunteer in other roles in the church?  Or should they just be allowed to attend and not participate in anything? 

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I find the original post to be vile, wicked, and disgusting. I have reported it to the moderators and I hope it will be deleted.

 

You also do not think that those who have not 'checked' the IFB box ought not be allowed to post on this site.

 

I believe it is a valid question.  There is nothing wrong with seeking wisdom from other Christians.

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

I can see not letting them join.  What policy should a church have as to their involvement if they choose to keep their family together?  Should their children be allowed to take part on children activities?  Should they, as a couple, be permitted to help out in the children's area?  Help prepare snacks for VBS?  Should they be allowed to volunteer in other roles in the church?  Or should they just be allowed to attend and not participate in anything? 

 

1 Corinthians 2:14   :icon_pray:

Edited by swathdiver
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The first thing for most all of those attending that Anglican church is to get saved the bible's way.

The prOBlems keep coming up for you KOB because the Bible is not your final authority for all matters of faith and practice. If it was, you would be asking us (if you couldn't find it yourself) what the Lord says about something, not how a church should position themselves over a matter.

A sound New Testament Church of the kind that Christ built and died for would never allow unregenerated people into the body of believers. These ladies are living in unrepentant sin, period.

All you can do is show them from God's Word (your King James Bible) what he says about various questions they may have and pray for their salvation. How they divide their assets and such, should they repent and trust Christ as Lord and Savior is their business, not yours or mine. There is ZERO biblical justification for their remaining in this condition only that it is a bible truth that people take pleasure in sin.


But what about the law of love? You want to hit them over the head with the bible instead. How about loving them???

If I have not love, I am nothing Paul said. Love conquers all and covers a multitude of sins. There you have it, the Gospel.
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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

I can see not letting them join. What policy should a church have as to their involvement if they choose to keep their family together? Should their children be allowed to take part on children activities? Should they, as a couple, be permitted to help out in the children's area? Help prepare snacks for VBS? Should they be allowed to volunteer in other roles in the church? Or should they just be allowed to attend and not participate in anything?

The churches need to add language to their Constitutions, or whatever statement of faith they present to prosective members, that deals with this.
We are not to eat with anyone who calls themself a Christian, and is in fornication.
We would be wise to be very careful to protect our churches from various types of child molestors.

Anishinaabe

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

I feel like this is pretty easy;

They need to realize in Gods eyes they are not married,
Repent, and seperate in their relationship, physicalities aside this is still an un holy union.
who ever had the children, those are her children, the church can support her in anyway possible as she grows in Christ and prays for a mate to help her.

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But what about the law of love? You want to hit them over the head with the bible instead. How about loving them???

If I have not love, I am nothing Paul said. Love conquers all and covers a multitude of sins. There you have it, the Gospel.

 

If I understand your post correctly, it smells of relativism.

 

Love is not counting the unacceptable (as found in Scripture) as acceptable.

Edited by Arbo
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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

     I am hereby withdrawing from Online Baptist. I will not participate on a forum that allows members (such as kindofblue1977) to promote ungodly and wicked lifestyles. Yes, that is exactly what this member is doing. In the name of tolerance and love, he or she (I am not sure if this member is a man or woman) is promoting homosexualty and lesbianism. I have asked the moderator to delete this thread and have also asked him/her to ban kindofblue1977. Neither one has happened, so (with a heavy heart) I am hereby withdrawing my membership from this board.

 

Sincerely,

Bro Steve Smith

brosmith@pioneerbaptist.org

Edited by brosmith
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Goodbye, Brosmith. I think this thread has been fascinating because it's popped up at exactly the same time as the >divorce thread and both have been asking the same question: what do we do when people turn up at church professing to be Christians and yet are doing 'X'. I'm inclined to think that your response here and yet silence in the other thread--and pretty much the flavour of all the responses here contrasted with the other thread--has been a poster child for what ROB is talking about >here

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  • Advanced Member

I have in no way promoted anything ungodly.  I am sorry you feel that way.  I have simply asked a question.  This is something that churches will have to address and deal with more and more in coming years.  I think this is an important discussion to have.  I have neighbors in this situation.  I have had a couple with children visit a church I attended at one point. 

 

I am not promoting anything, and I have not attempted to argue homosexual sex is not sinful.  I believe it is. I have simply asked how should we counsel people in these situations?  Should we say it is ok for them to be a family since they have made commitments, but remain celibate?  Should we reject them entirely and not try to reach them?  Should we make our churches unwelcoming to them?  What should we do? 

 

That is my question.  If you cannot see the legitimacy of that question, then I don't know what to do. 

 

Most have given honest and good responses as to their thoughts.  I would like to see a bit more discussion, but if no one has anything else to add, that is fine. 

 

I will add that never have I posted anything disrespectful to anyone, even with those I disagree with. I am respectful and am wiling to listen to all viewpoints, and engage in thoughtful conversation.  I have not posted this or any other item that has promoted anything sinful or attempting to disparage the beliefs of those here, but to ask questions and learn about the beliefs and thoughts of others.  This particular question seems to be an important one in light of what is going on in our culture today.  There are same-sex couples in your community who are legally married. In mine too.  If we want to reach them for Christ, we must be prepared to answer tough questions I raise in this thread.  Because they will ask them.

Edited by kindofblue1977
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I am hereby withdrawing from Online Baptist. I will not participate on a forum that allows members (such as kindofblue1977) to promote ungodly and wicked lifestyles. Yes, that is exactly what this member is doing. In the name of tolerance and love, he or she (I am not sure if this member is a man or woman) is promoting homosexualty and lesbianism. I have asked the moderator to delete this thread and have also asked him/her to ban kindofblue1977. Neither one has happened, so (with a heavy heart) I am hereby withdrawing my membership from this board.

Sincerely,
Bro Steve Smith
brosmith@pioneerbaptist.org

How did KOB promote homosexuality, etc? This is a discussion long overdue for churches, especially the IFB type which condemns them Jerry Falwell style.
This is coming to a church near you.

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

I have in no way promoted anything ungodly. I am sorry you feel that way. I have simply asked a question. This is something that churches will have to address and deal with more and more in coming years. I think this is an important discussion to have. I have neighbors in this situation. I have had a couple with children visit a church I attended at one point.

I am not promoting anything, and I have not attempted to argue homosexual sex is not sinful. I believe it is. I have simply asked how should we counsel people in these situations? Should we say it is ok for them to be a family since they have made commitments, but remain celibate? Should we reject them entirely and not try to reach them? Should we make our churches unwelcoming to them? What should we do?

That is my question. If you cannot see the legitimacy of that question, then I don't know what to do.

Most have given honest and good responses as to their thoughts. I would like to see a bit more discussion, but if no one has anything else to add, that is fine.

I will add that never have I posted anything disrespectful to anyone, even with those I disagree with. I am respectful and am wiling to listen to all viewpoints, and engage in thoughtful conversation. I have not posted this or any other item that has promoted anything sinful or attempting to disparage the beliefs of those here, but to ask questions and learn about the beliefs and thoughts of others. This particular question seems to be an important one in light of what is going on in our culture today. There are same-sex couples in your community who are legally married. In mine too. If we want to reach them for Christ, we must be prepared to answer tough questions I raise in this thread. Because they will ask them.

Any church with any wisdom can see that they must pre-emptively strike concerning this issue.

Rural churches may be the last to encounter this, but even they will, seeing as how our society is permeated by communications media, and therefore, sin.

If we don't spell it out in a legal document, we will lose our buildings, and even personally end up jailed over unpaid lawsuit damages.

They are coming, be prepared.


Anishinaabe

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