Moderators Ukulelemike Posted April 22, 2014 Moderators Share Posted April 22, 2014 If I handed you a telescope or microscope and you started yelling into it like it was a microphone, what would I think of you? Instead of clearly understanding Romans 16:17, this "pastor's wife" (and the pastor backed her actions as well) has committed the act of spreading false rumors and back-biting and verballying slandering a great man of God. She clearly is blind-as-a-bat as far as understanding this scripture: Now I beseech you, brethren, mark skopeō them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. As a result, I have since "avoided" these "-ites". I suspect she gets her "Hog-wash" from the "Hog-yard" I see what you are saying, but keep in mind that we have great examples from Paul of how those he marked, he also warned about. Yes, mark them, pay attention to them, notice them and take heed to avoid them, but we also have a responsibility to warn others about them. Paul named names, gave issues, made them public-shouldn't we also, so long as we have good information? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TheSword Posted April 22, 2014 Members Share Posted April 22, 2014 They were spelled out as a list of requirements. If no one meets the requirements, then no one gets installed in the office. What is there to discuss? You want me to agree that "no one is qualified", so we can ignore the list, or make it a suggestion , not a command, before you will discuss it. We have to accept the Word of God, before we can discuss it. Anishinaabe All I wanted was an honest discussion on whether or not we had an accurate understanding of what that verse says because I disagree that it's as plain as you seem to think it is; but nevermind. I truly have no interest in discussing anything with you now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members beameup Posted April 22, 2014 Members Share Posted April 22, 2014 I see what you are saying, but keep in mind that we have great examples from Paul of how those he marked, he also warned about. Yes, mark them, pay attention to them, notice them and take heed to avoid them, but we also have a responsibility to warn others about them. Paul named names, gave issues, made them public-shouldn't we also, so long as we have good information? I might also make another "OBservation" concerning this particular "congregation". Rather than being "spiritual" and thus gentle and kind, they seem to "focus" on having an angry spirit concerning things totally outside their control, such as certain "conspiricies" of a particular religious order and (progressive) "liberalism" in general. Perhaps they do not really trust the Holy Spirit... or perhaps even worse... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members prophet1 Posted April 22, 2014 Members Share Posted April 22, 2014 All I wanted was an honest discussion on whether or not we had an accurate understanding of what that verse says because I disagree that it's as plain as you seem to think it is; but nevermind. I truly have no interest in discussing anything with you now.You summarily dismissed the literal interpretation. Now you want to discuss what? How can "must be" not mean "must be"? Anishinaabe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Gorship Posted April 22, 2014 Members Share Posted April 22, 2014 While the OP doesnt necessarily speak to this exactly. In terms of "eating meat and spitting out bones" I think personal decernment helps a lot... I personally had to stop listening to Todd friel, as the gaggle of calvinistic theology played in clips by paul washer and company just ate away at my Joy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TheSword Posted April 22, 2014 Members Share Posted April 22, 2014 You summarily dismissed the literal interpretation. Now you want to discuss what? How can "must be" not mean "must be"? Anishinaabe Didn't dismiss anything, but I don't care to dig it back up. Pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Ukulelemike Posted April 22, 2014 Moderators Share Posted April 22, 2014 I might also make another "OBservation" concerning this particular "congregation". Rather than being "spiritual" and thus gentle and kind, they seem to "focus" on having an angry spirit concerning things totally outside their control, such as certain "conspiricies" of a particular religious order and (progressive) "liberalism" in general. Perhaps they do not really trust the Holy Spirit... or perhaps even worse... Well, I certainly can't argue with you that there are those who allow their zeal to give them a poor spirit and attitude. These are the kinds that give other believers a bad name. I certainly have no prOBlem with warning ministries, so long as they are done with kindness and wisodm, and well-document what they are saying. After all, Jeremiah and Isaiah and Ezekiel definitely had warning ministries, particularly to israel, but much can be applied to the NT believer who takes for granted what the Lord has done for him, of those who seek to include ungodliness and error in the work. A great example would be, of course, the well-known 'god hates fags' "church", Westboro Baptist. They are just bubbling over with zeal, without an ounce of discernment or Christian love to be seen. Of course, they're an extreme example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ASongOfDegrees Posted April 23, 2014 Members Share Posted April 23, 2014 What exactly are you confused about? I did put this out in a bit of haste, so maybe I wasn't as clear as I meant to be. Please allow me to clarify You seem to suggest that only adultery can be committed in the heart and/or that married men can only commit adultery but not fornicate. Matt. 15:19- For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: It all comes from the heart and thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ASongOfDegrees Posted April 23, 2014 Members Share Posted April 23, 2014 That's an interesting answer. I had always considered adultery as a type, or subset, of fornication. It's an intriguing thought, but I'm not yet fully on board with the idea of it being a distinction between physical and non-physical interaction. John 8:3-4 seems to describe adultery as a physical act and the adultery of the heart passage (Matt 5:28) seems to indicate that the common understanding was that adultery was physical, but Jesus extended it to non-physical. Thus, when I read Matt 5:23 I understand the provision for divorce to be all kind of sexual sin to include adultery. Thoughts? I'm sure there's a Greek word somewhere to explain it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TheSword Posted April 23, 2014 Members Share Posted April 23, 2014 I'm sure there's a Greek word somewhere to explain it. Thanks for your encouragement to study. I'll look into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Ukulelemike Posted April 23, 2014 Moderators Share Posted April 23, 2014 You seem to suggest that only adultery can be committed in the heart and/or that married men can only commit adultery but not fornicate. Matt. 15:19- For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: It all comes from the heart and thoughts. Yeah it does kind of sound like that. NO, The point I am clumsily trying to make, is that, while adultery can be of the heart OR the flesh, then becoming fornication as well, fornication is strictly of the flesh. Now certainly, fornication dirives from adultery of the heart, but that domain is between you and the Lord, as far as the consequences are concerned, while fornication has now officially and manifestly made the breech in the marriage. Like what I asid about the hate/murder thing: We can hate a brother without a cause, and be seen of God as a murderer in heart, but we can't be tried in court for that. However, when that hate breaks forth into physical assault or murder, THEN the courts can try us and find us guilty. Yes, murder is borne out of hate, generally, but hate alone cannot cause us to be judged by man, only God. So adultery which can be of the heart, while IN the heart, its still adultery, but we are judged then of God, but fornication, when it manifests in flesh, can then find physical judgment. That's the best way I can explain it. Also, in reference to the verse, adultery and fornication are separated, because adultery is not always fornication, and fornication is not always adultery-sometimes adultery is only of the heart, and sometimes, fornication is done where there is no marriage involved, thus no adultery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members prophet1 Posted April 23, 2014 Members Share Posted April 23, 2014 Yeah it does kind of sound like that. NO, The point I am clumsily trying to make, is that, while adultery can be of the heart OR the flesh, then becoming fornication as well, fornication is strictly of the flesh. Now certainly, fornication dirives from adultery of the heart, but that domain is between you and the Lord, as far as the consequences are concerned, while fornication has now officially and manifestly made the breech in the marriage. Like what I asid about the hate/murder thing: We can hate a brother without a cause, and be seen of God as a murderer in heart, but we can't be tried in court for that. However, when that hate breaks forth into physical assault or murder, THEN the courts can try us and find us guilty. Yes, murder is borne out of hate, generally, but hate alone cannot cause us to be judged by man, only God. So adultery which can be of the heart, while IN the heart, its still adultery, but we are judged then of God, but fornication, when it manifests in flesh, can then find physical judgment. That's the best way I can explain it. Also, in reference to the verse, adultery and fornication are separated, because adultery is not always fornication, and fornication is not always adultery-sometimes adultery is only of the heart, and sometimes, fornication is done where there is no marriage involved, thus no adultery. Adultery, when it becomes physical, becomes fornication. Pornography viewing is physical, and is adultery, for a married man. We can't judge the inward thoughts of any brother, but we are to judge the outward expression of those thoughts. Anishinaabe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Ukulelemike Posted April 23, 2014 Moderators Share Posted April 23, 2014 Adultery, when it becomes physical, becomes fornication. Pornography viewing is physical, and is adultery, for a married man. We can't judge the inward thoughts of any brother, but we are to judge the outward expression of those thoughts. Anishinaabe Whosoever looketh upon a woman to lust after her has committed adultery with her in his heart. Isn't this exactly what viewing pornography is? Jesus calls it of the heart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AVBibleBeliever Posted April 24, 2014 Members Share Posted April 24, 2014 Mark, yes. Slander, no. slander is an act of causing division Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AVBibleBeliever Posted April 24, 2014 Members Share Posted April 24, 2014 The terms of Adultery and Fornication are so closely related in the Bible that one generally does not go without the other. Mt 5:32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.Mt 19:9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.Ga 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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