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Secondary Inspiration


TheSword

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I thought I explained why I hold to my position...if I didn't I apologize...

 

You certainly have and I've benefited greatly from your mature contributions. I'll be more than happy to continue engaging you on them.

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I called your use of a racial term 'racist', not your traducción I don't know anything about any book by ROBert Breaker. Where did you see me say that I read it? Hades is a Greek word, so maybe you should find out what it means to the Greeks. Hades is the name of the "god" who keeps the realm, not even the name of the realm. Hades was a false "god" a long time before Jesus came. Anishinaabe

 

So when the TR says, Kagó de ególegó hoti hou ei Petros kai epi houtos ho petra oikodomeó ego ten ekklesía kai pulé hades ou katischuó ego. (Mateo 16:18) What Jesus was trying to convey to us is that a greek god would not be able to harm the church??

 

Sure, like I said, it really doesn´t matter one iota what you believe the word hades to mean. In the TR it means hell, it means a place and it is a real word that does not even in the slightest bit denote a mythological underworld where some false god sits and rules as far as the word of God in concerned.

 

Like I said, go back and play with the kiddies in the sand box.

 

The 1960 is fine wherever it says hades in place of Infierno, they are one and the same.

 

God bless,

calvary

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I'm not talking about the word of God. I know the apostles had access to that. I'm talking about the writings of man. Your argument is that the apostles didn't need to use books and such from men. I just pointed out that's because there were no other men or writings because the apostles were breaking new ground. They were laying the foundation, men and their writings, commentaries, books, etc. would come after that. 

 

So what I'm saying does make sense if you correctly comprehend what I'm saying.

 

ASOD, once again I disagree. God's intent was hardly for His Apostles to begin a trend of men's writing. You will find that nowhere in the Word. Nowhere is God's Word described as a foundation for men's written interpretation. We are to live by every Word of God only. It is all God wants us to study.
 
Local Pastors, teachers, elders are to exhort us from the Word in the local NT church. Not write books on the Word period, much less to sell them.
 
The local NT church as strayed far away with the over commercialization of God via "doctors" with books sales, mission boards, corporate type groups profiting on God. It is all filthy lucre IMO.  If it isn't the local NT church, it isn't Scriptural period.
 
Seems, even the seemingly sanctified IFBs want to study everything but the Word. The Spirit is in us to guide us into all truth with His Word, not some dude's book.
 
Most of the ego, pride, dissention prOBlems that plague NT churches are the result of studying other men's materials and not the Word (and the encouragement and rebuke of your local NT Pastor and Elders).
 
It is a whole lot easier to think of ourselves as scholars instead of servants. I think if we walk in the Spirit, we will deny the flesh and won't give a spit about men's scholarly writings.
And you won't read this in a book. It would cut the throat of the author's profits and that's the bottom line.
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Studying them for what resource reason?

 

I like to study them b/c I will be taking a trip to Israel in a year.  God willing, that is.  I would love to be able to speak some Hebrew to the Jews there.  I have been studying Hebrew for awhile.  I took 2 years of German in high school, but I never mastered it.  I learned more German from WWII movies.  LOL

As for the Greek? I have a close friend who is Greek and I am able to talk with her relatives on Facebook a bit.  They live in Greece.  They are Greek Orthodox and they desperately need saved.

As you know, Hebrew was a dead language for a long time.  I find it an interesting study.  I have also been able to use it, as an additional resource, in helping people understand scriptures better.  For example, the thread on wine in the Bible?  The Hebrew explains it quite well.  There is nothing wrong with wanting to broaden my horizons, AVBB.  I was a teacher for 18 years.  I love to study.

Nothing can replace the KJB.  Learning other languages is not a sin.  :)

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Wretched,

 

I agree with the gist of what you are saying. While I'm not against all books men write, I do agree the vast majority of them are based too much upon opinion, tradition, church/denominational teaching, politics, pride, etc.

 

The most scripturally sound, and therefore the most useful, books by men that I've read are those which are collections of sermons or books written than expound upon something in a biblical manner akin to a sermon. The best of these center on and around the Word, not traditions, opinions, etc.

 

However, most Christian books are not heavily biblical centered. They often serve as a means for the author to put forth their pet views, or to highlight their deep understandings, or to promote political actions or church traditions. Some Christian books are so filled with stories and such they are more entertainment centered than Bible centered.

 

The Bible is sufficient in itself. We don't "have to" read other books. While there is nothing wrong with selectively reading some Christian books, such reading should never take the priority. The Bible should always be front and center and the most read and studied of any book.

 

I love to read and over the years I've read thousands of books, both Christian and otherwise (most of the non-Christian books were of a historical or biographical nature). However, as the years have gone by and I've grown in my walk with the Lord I've found each year the book list I consider for reading shrinks and narrows. The book I'm currently reading is so saturated with Scripture it's like getting in another Scripture reading session as I read that book.

 

Yet as my book reading narrows, I've found myself spending more and more time in the reading of Scripture.

 

Anyway, I agree that most of the Christian books being written today are put forth for profits, prestige and popularity.

 

Typically, the more Bible-centric a book is, the lower the sales, so the less interested are publishers and most authors.

 

Unfortunately, I know many Christians who will read some watered down Christian book, or even Christian fiction, and think they have done very good.

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So when the TR says, Kagó de ególegó hoti hou ei Petros kai epi houtos ho petra oikodomeó ego ten ekklesía kai pulé hades ou katischuó ego. (Mateo 16:18) What Jesus was trying to convey to us is that a greek god would not be able to harm the church??

Sure, like I said, it really doesn´t matter one iota what you believe the word hades to mean. In the TR it means hell, it means a place and it is a real word that does not even in the slightest bit denote a mythological underworld where some false god sits and rules as far as the word of God in concerned.

Like I said, go back and play with the kiddies in the sand box.

The 1960 is fine wherever it says hades in place of Infierno, they are one and the same.

God bless,
calvary

Hades doesn't mean "Hell" in Greek or Spanish.

Anishinaabe

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A couple from our church went on a 10 day tour of Israel a few weeks ago and they both continue to talk about it and how it impacted their lives.

 

The husband even gave a fine, hour long presentation to a group of older ladies at our church (his wife was going to do this but schedule conflicts got in the way and he volunteered). The husband has also begun regularly attending the adult Sunday school after our first morning service (which he faithfully attends and serves as a deacon).

 

Somehow their zeal for the Lord was greatly enhanced by their trip to Israel. Praise God!

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A couple from our church went on a 10 day tour of Israel a few weeks ago and they both continue to talk about it and how it impacted their lives.

The husband even gave a fine, hour long presentation to a group of older ladies at our church (his wife was going to do this but schedule conflicts got in the way and he volunteered). The husband has also begun regularly attending the adult Sunday school after our first morning service (which he faithfully attends and serves as a deacon).

Somehow their zeal for the Lord was greatly enhanced by their trip to Israel. Praise God!

So they were "Re-inspired"?

B)

Anishinaabe

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Me too! Headed out there at the end of next month on a study tour and I'm super excited about it.

That is so awesome, Sword!  I can't wait.  I just want to put my feet on Holy ground.  Everyone that visits Israel says that they are never the same afterward.  

We are going with the IFB churches in my area.  They do a tour once a year.  This Sunday the choir director and pianist in my church is going to do a presentation on Israel for the congregation.  He was there when the Jews finally bombed Gaza.  He also went into Syria. 

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Hades doesn't mean "Hell" in Greek or Spanish.

Anishinaabe

Your opinion the contrary is of no value. I have met folks like you over the years.

 

I just quoted Jesus from the Greek NT who used the word hades and yet you cavil.

After having been proved to be error, you yet argue and act more like a fool than before.

 

Pride is an amazing testament to the foolishness of a ma´s heart.

 

You would be entertaining if you weren´t so pathetic.

 

Leave it alone fool, you´re wrong, I presented evidence that is irrefutable that you are, so just bow out like a good little boy and run along.......

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Wretched,

I understand what you are saying, and the typical local Christian bookstores around the USA are right in line with what you are saying....I just think you are taking it to an extreme point, almost isolationist.  I thank God for the writings of good, solid, KJV Bible Believing men who love the Lord, and are living for the Lord.  It is my responsibility as a Pastor to feed the flock of God, and I can't do that if I am not being fed myself.  Just as the congregation at our church needs to hear the teaching and preaching of the word of God, so do I, and I get that need met by READING what other men have met.

 

If we took your position as far as you have, we would not have ANY TRANSLATIONS of Scripture at all, because nOBody would be able to study other languages.  So then we would be without a Bible in English - which is the exact same position the Roman Catholic Cult took during the Dark AGes.  Keep everyone uninformed, uneducated, and grossly ignorant on every subject.  Keep the Bible in a language they don't speak, write, or understand.  You know the results of that era!

 

My understanding of the Bible has been greatly enhanced by reading what God has taught other good men.  And I do read and study the Bible on my own so much as time permits.  But I would be a fool to think that I could get everything out of the Bible on my own.  Just as God is pleased to enlighten the local church as to the meaning of Scripture through the teaching and preaching of the word of God, so God has been pleased to teach me through the preaching and teaching of other men through the medium of written books.   And I always confirm everything that I read with the word of God - and sometimes I end up rejecting what somebody said on the basis of Scripture.  Guess what?  The studies I have done that led me to reject somebody's position only bolstered my own faith in the word of God.

 

I generally agree with your posts - I just think this is a dangerous position to take.  Just as we are to examine the preaching and teaching of the word of God as it comes to us from the pastor, so are we to examine the writings of other people.

 

BTW - the local churches of the NT supported missionary outreaches in the NT, through some means or another.  Another thing to keep in mind is that the missionaries could travel anywhere they wanted to in those days.  The Political culture of the world is much different.  Most countries will not allow foreigners in for extended periods of time unless they can prove that they have a means of supporting themselves.  They are not allowed to work.  They must have a VISA.  They must have a long list of things before they can even get into many countries....so "mission boards" and deputation is not a matter of "filthy lucre" as much as it is a necessary reality, however unpleasant it might be.  Of course, fallen man can corrupt any good thing, and yes there are "moochanaries" out there that are in it for the money.  But there are plenty of good missionaries out there who sacrifice everything to serve in a foreign field. 

 

If I were you, I would stay away from that subject unless you have been on the foreign field as a missionary.

 

That's all I have to say about it to you, so don't expect a response from me if you choose to answer.  You are way off here, brother, and need to be a bit more reasonable about your attacks on "filthy lucre." 

 

In Christ,

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ASOD, once again I disagree. God's intent was hardly for His Apostles to begin a trend of men's writing. You will find that nowhere in the Word. Nowhere is God's Word described as a foundation for men's written interpretation. We are to live by every Word of God only. It is all God wants us to study.
 
Local Pastors, teachers, elders are to exhort us from the Word in the local NT church. Not write books on the Word period, much less to sell them.
 
The local NT church as strayed far away with the over commercialization of God via "doctors" with books sales, mission boards, corporate type groups profiting on God. It is all filthy lucre IMO.  If it isn't the local NT church, it isn't Scriptural period.
 
Seems, even the seemingly sanctified IFBs want to study everything but the Word. The Spirit is in us to guide us into all truth with His Word, not some dude's book.
 
Most of the ego, pride, dissention prOBlems that plague NT churches are the result of studying other men's materials and not the Word (and the encouragement and rebuke of your local NT Pastor and Elders).
 
It is a whole lot easier to think of ourselves as scholars instead of servants. I think if we walk in the Spirit, we will deny the flesh and won't give a spit about men's scholarly writings.
And you won't read this in a book. It would cut the throat of the author's profits and that's the bottom line.

 

And suppose I don't attend their church? Suppose I live in an area where there are no churches. I know of a preacher who gave a bunch of free books and tapes to a saved family in Romania where there was absolutely no place to fellowship. What about them? Are you suggesting it was wrong to do this? I don't see any difference between a pastor/teacher speaking words or writing words on paper other than he might make a greater profit from the later (which is not unscriptural- I Cor. 9:13,14). They are both for the edification of the church.

 

I think you are taking the extreme position. You cannot tell me that you have never learned anything about the scripture reading the material of other bible believers. I do not believe it. In fact, you are learning things from others on this forum which is not much different than if you read a book.

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Wretched,

I understand what you are saying, and the typical local Christian bookstores around the USA are right in line with what you are saying....I just think you are taking it to an extreme point, almost isolationist.  I thank God for the writings of good, solid, KJV Bible Believing men who love the Lord, and are living for the Lord.  It is my responsibility as a Pastor to feed the flock of God, and I can't do that if I am not being fed myself.  Just as the congregation at our church needs to hear the teaching and preaching of the word of God, so do I, and I get that need met by READING what other men have met.

 

If we took your position as far as you have, we would not have ANY TRANSLATIONS of Scripture at all, because nOBody would be able to study other languages.  So then we would be without a Bible in English - which is the exact same position the Roman Catholic Cult took during the Dark AGes.  Keep everyone uninformed, uneducated, and grossly ignorant on every subject.  Keep the Bible in a language they don't speak, write, or understand.  You know the results of that era!

 

My understanding of the Bible has been greatly enhanced by reading what God has taught other good men.  And I do read and study the Bible on my own so much as time permits.  But I would be a fool to think that I could get everything out of the Bible on my own.  Just as God is pleased to enlighten the local church as to the meaning of Scripture through the teaching and preaching of the word of God, so God has been pleased to teach me through the preaching and teaching of other men through the medium of written books.   And I always confirm everything that I read with the word of God - and sometimes I end up rejecting what somebody said on the basis of Scripture.  Guess what?  The studies I have done that led me to reject somebody's position only bolstered my own faith in the word of God.

 

I generally agree with your posts - I just think this is a dangerous position to take.  Just as we are to examine the preaching and teaching of the word of God as it comes to us from the pastor, so are we to examine the writings of other people.

 

BTW - the local churches of the NT supported missionary outreaches in the NT, through some means or another.  Another thing to keep in mind is that the missionaries could travel anywhere they wanted to in those days.  The Political culture of the world is much different.  Most countries will not allow foreigners in for extended periods of time unless they can prove that they have a means of supporting themselves.  They are not allowed to work.  They must have a VISA.  They must have a long list of things before they can even get into many countries....so "mission boards" and deputation is not a matter of "filthy lucre" as much as it is a necessary reality, however unpleasant it might be.  Of course, fallen man can corrupt any good thing, and yes there are "moochanaries" out there that are in it for the money.  But there are plenty of good missionaries out there who sacrifice everything to serve in a foreign field. 

 

If I were you, I would stay away from that subject unless you have been on the foreign field as a missionary.

 

That's all I have to say about it to you, so don't expect a response from me if you choose to answer.  You are way off here, brother, and need to be a bit more reasonable about your attacks on "filthy lucre." 

 

In Christ,

 

Well, thats allot of OBjection :)

 

Unfortunately there is nothing new in this Steve and I understand why you think of it in the same way as 99% of everyone else.

 

Sure, I used to be interested in the old timers books but never agreed with them in all areas. And I am certainly not referring to the cooled down lukewarm mainstream protestant groups with their overwhelming merchandizing of God. I am referring to our pathetic IFB (warmer but still lukewarm) lot, following down the same roads just at a slower pace.

 

Even IFBs are gullible enough to follow the whims of the "great men of God" until they fall (which they all do), then these silly folks have to throw out their books and pretend they never really followed their writings.

 

Any point you attempt to make reference Bible translations is moot to my point. As long as they are not copyrighted, I certainly don't take this stand with the Word and never mentioned the Word Itself. And yes I have been a member of several missionary churches in several countries that I have lived in. There is something to be said about real life experiences that give the person a wholly different perspective on things that one can never have by only the internet, reading, TV and pictures or the occasional story from visitors. Those same missionary church in Panama, Honduras, Columbia, Korea and even in Germany were the real deal. Real Scriptural NT churches that only relied on the Word, prayer and each other. That is where I saw the real revival, the real soulwinning. Since back in the states it has just been one big watered down carnal christian mess.

We are way too fat, comfortable and rich to ever think of really following the Lord (me too sadly). But I will never pretend it is ok by God.

 

The making merchandise of God has grown so ridiculous now with IFBs, seems every pastor wants that Dr on their name and wants to be published for filthy lucre sake or pride or recognition by men. It is sad and part of the falling away as predicted.

 

Disagree till you turn blue but noone here can provide even one example in the Word of anyone doing this type of thing or even hinting to it apart from the repeated warnings of covetousness and pride and making merchandize of God.

 

I think you are taking the extreme position. You cannot tell me that you have never learned anything about the scripture reading the material of other bible believers. I do not believe it. In fact, you are learning things from others on this forum which is not much different than if you read a book.

 

I have learned more about people here than any doctrinal ideas they may post ASOD. With the big exception of the non Pre mil and amil/covenant 2 or 3 on here. I had never heard those ideas anywhere in the world I have been. I assume it must only be an internet thing.

 

I do enjoy the debate on here though when there is time to kill.

 

Remember I post only opinion, take it and think about it or don't...

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wretched

so the pastors/missionaries you sat under in foreign countries never read anything outside of the Bible?

Does your current pastor read anything outside of the Bible?

 

Here is what I think.

I believe the Bible speaks on every subject known to mankind.  I am not afraid to read any material written by any person because I know the Bible has the correct answer on anything subject I read on.  The more I read the Bible, the more I understand things in the world around me - politically, economically, socially, culturally, and in every way.  However, my knowledge of all subjects is better understood by READING about them as historical reference, and other studies, aided by the careful reading and study of the Bible.  I don't see them as mutually exclusive, but rather, I see them as trying to understand what is happening in the world through the lense of Scripture.  It almost sounds like you want to be a hermit or something.

 

History does not happen in a vacuum.  History is directly related to how a country and its leaders respond to the Holy Bible, and the Lord Jesus Christ.  Without a knowledge of history, we have no idea how we got to where we are today glOBally, or in the United States.  We can accurately predict what will happen in the United STates, so far as the Lord's treatment of us, by understanding what God did to other nations in world history over the course of the last 3000 years.  Not only do we have Biblical precedent, but that Biblical precedent has been confirmed time and again throughout history outside of the writings of Scripture.

 

I know I said I would not respond to you anymore on this subject, but I just think too many pastors are missing the boat because they don't see how the Bible relates to anything outside of their little world.  I believe that there is not one subject that a person can think of that the Bible does not speak to.  It speaks directly to every situation that a person can find themselves in across the world.  The prOBlem is that the preachers don't know how to dig that stuff out, so they become isolated, anemic in their teaching, and live in some kind of dream world or something....I don't know.  But the Bible has the answers to America's tax prOBlem, immigration prOBlem, defense prOBlem, mega-church prOBlem, false prophet prOBlem, sodomite prOBlem, rock music prOBlem, marital prOBlem, economic prOBlems, and any other prOBlem you might think of.   But the more you understand about economics in general, the better you will be able to see the economics the Bible lays out.  The more knowledge you have about current and past political issues, the better you will the political teachings and principles in the Bible.  The more you understand about taxation in general, the better you will see those principles in Scripture.  The list is endless - so I hope you get the point.

 

We don't live on an island.  We should be able to have intelligent conversations with lost people about these issues, and show them from the Bible what we believe and why we believe it.  But you can't do that if all you read is the Bible - you will miss a lot of subjects that it speaks to just out of plain ignorance. 

Supporting a Bible-Believing man who writes good materials, and then turns around and GIVES a large percentage of those materials away to missionaries and pastors is not letting someone indulge themselves in "filthy lucre."  It is helping other Christians grow in grace.  The men I know who write extensively give a good chunk of their material away - and use the rest of the "income" from sales to print more materials.  Some is sold, and that is put back into the cost of printing more, and the rest is given away.  They are not making any profit on the sales at all.  It all goes right back into ministering to others. 

The people I know of personally who have written and sold books for other KJV Bible believers are not getting rich off any of there sales - they are common ordinary folks who love the Lord and just want to try to help other Christians. 

That is prOBably why I have taken such offense to your extremism.  You are broad-brushing everyone into the same category....so maybe the people I am thinking of would be "exceptions" to your "rule."  But it is a pretty bad rule, if you ask me.  In fact, I have been working on several books of my own, and hope to get them finished and made available to other KJV Believers some time soon.  Guess what?  I am going to have to charge a fee for the books because of simple economics.  I don't have the capital to print all of the books and hand them out free of charge.  So the price I will charge will merely compensate me for the investment, and then free me up to print more.  I have no desire to "get rich" off the sales - just want to help other believers. 

 

And if you doubt my ability to teach the Bible, even though I read other things outside the Bible, just let me know - I'll send you some sample CD's of Bible teaching.

 

In Christ

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