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Can We Talk About A Pre-Tribulation Rapture...


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without people who don't believe in it?  If you don't hold to this view, I kindly ask you to stay out of this conversation.  John81, Conventater, an Invicta, that would be you.  Since Ukelelemike doesn't believe in it, I would ask another moderator to supervise.  There are 10,385 scriptures on prophecy in the KJV Bible.  Fire away the scriptures, please.

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The "Tribulation" is not about the Church, it's about Israel.  Specifically, it is the fulfillment of the "70th Week of Daniel".

 

Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression,
and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness,
and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.  see Daniel 9:24-27
 
When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet,
stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)  Matthew 24:15
 
But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet,
standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in
Judaea flee to the mountains:  Mark 13:14
 
But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day  Matthew 24:20
 
PS: The word "weeks" used in Daniel is shabuwa` which simply means "sevens"
(like we use the word "dozen").  There is no "place" (function for) the church
on the earth at this time.  It is for the final purification of Jews for service of the Messiah.
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Here are some "highlights" from an article by Mark ROBinson of Jewish Awareness Ministries:

 

Is The Rapture Pre-Trib?

 

Mark ROBinson gives three reasons in the defense of a pre-tribulation rapture:

 

1. THE DISTINCTION BETWEEN ISRAEL AND THE CHURCH - Daniel 9:24-27

 

The entire 70 weeks is exclusively for the Jewish people. “Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and thy holy city.” Since the church wasn’t born until after Jesus ascended into heaven, 40 days after his death and resurrection, it is clear that the church was not present during the first 69 weeks.

 

2. IMMINENCY  - Titus 2:12-13; Philippians 4:5; James 5:7-9

 

The language of these verses (Titus 2:12-13; Philippians 4:5; James 5:7-9) clearly speaks of an “anytime” coming of the Lord. “Looking for that blessed hope,” (not the coming of the Anti-Christ or any other prophecy); “the Lord is at hand;” and “the judge standeth before the door” all demand an understanding of imminency in regard to the coming of the Lord.  J. Barton Payne declared, “In fact, no natural reading of Scripture would produce any other conclusion3.”

 

The imminent coming of Christ has been consistently taught throughout church history. The Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church states, “Primitive Christianity believed the event to be imminent and this belief has been revived from time to time in the history of the church.”4

 

 3.    Quoted from Maranatha, Our Lord Come: A Definitive Study of the Rapture of the Church, Dr. Renald Showers, (Friends of Israel Gospel Ministry, 1995) p. 129

4.    Ibid. p. 143

 

3. RAPTURE BEFORE WRATH - 1 Thessalonians 1:9; 5:9; John 5:22, 27; Revelation 6:1

 

In the fifth chapter of Revelation, we have a scroll sealed with seven seals. The question is asked by an angel, “Who is worthy to open the book (scroll), and to loose the seals thereof?” The answer to this question is vitally important because the one identified will be opening the 7 seal judgments, along with the subsequent trumpet and bowl judgments that will be poured out upon this earth. Verse nine provides the answer, “And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book (scroll), and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation.” The Lamb of God, Jesus, is the only one worthy to open the book and, as John already told us in his gospel, He will be pouring out these judgments upon the world.

 

In the first seal judgment, Revelation 6:1,  we are told “the Lamb opened one of the seals.” In fact, the Lamb, Jesus, opens all the seal judgments, vss. 3, 5, 7, 9, 12. Then, with unmistakable clarity, we are told, “For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?” This is the wrath of God from which believers are promised deliverance. His wrath has already commenced. His wrath is initiated with these seal judgments. The seal judgments start at the beginning of the Tribulation period and so the Church must be raptured before the Tribulation period starts in order to “deliver us from the wrath to come.”

 

THE BLESSED HOPE

 

Three lines of evidence have been presented for the validity of the pre-trib rapture view. The scripture passages examined, to this writer, leave no possibility for the mid-trib, post-trib, and pre-wrath position to be the correct biblical position.  It is this writer’s conviction that the Bible supports the pre-trib rapture and that born-again Christians will be taken off this earth before the Tribulation period begins. This is truly a blessed hope!

**************************************************

Maranatha!

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The lady asked for a thread devoted to discussion of a pre-trib rapture.

 

Can't we respect our sister enough to stick to that in her own thread?

His post has bearing on the subject at hand, though. Really, the two go hand in hand. Since a lot of the brethren want to go through the Tribulation he's clearing it up that the Tribulation is for Israel, not the church.

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without people who don't believe in it?  If you don't hold to this view, I kindly ask you to stay out of this conversation.  John81, Conventater, an Invicta, that would be you.  Since Ukelelemike doesn't believe in it, I would ask another moderator to supervise.  There are 10,385 scriptures on prophecy in the KJV Bible.  Fire away the scriptures, please.

 

We Christians are children of light and we should be watching for the signs for the day of the Lord. But we are not to fear since we are not going through the wrath. We are to comfort each other with this knowledge.

 

1 Thessalonians 5:1-11

1But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.

2For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

3For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

5Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

6Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sOBer.

7For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.

8But let us, who are of the day, be sOBer, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.

9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to OBtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

10Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

11Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.

 

 

((The mystery of iniquity is being restrained by He who letteth that is the Holy Spirit in the church. We are the salt and light of the world. As salt preserves a country ham we preserve the earth.))

 

2 Thessalonians 2:6-12

6And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

7For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

 

((The Holy Spirit will never leave us nor forsake us. Therefore when he is taken away we are taken away in the rapture.))

 

 

 

8And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

9Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

10And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

11And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

12That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

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Paul referred to it as 1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.  2Th 2:1 ¶ Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,  the connecting word to both of these is together speaking of the Body of Christ

 

It is the gathering of the Body of Christ.  We could call it "Our Gathering".

 

I am one who thinks we should use AV bible words and not popish Latin transliterations, not even the AV translators used it.

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The word "Rapture" isnt a concrete noun, in English, but rather it is abstract. Rapture is not an event, but rather an emotion.

Having a Scriptural discussion of a non-Scriptural Word, will lead to confusión and strife.

How about discussing the Resurrection?

His Appearing?

His Descent?

His Coming?

Our Gathering?

Dan 12:12
12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

Mat 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven:and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Our Gathering

2Th 2:1-3
Chapter 2
1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means:for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;



Anishinaabe

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Prophet1,

 

You have the option of not posting in this discussion.  If you don't like the topic, then ignore this thread.

 

This topic doesn't lead to strife and confusion....except to those who deny the imminency of the "catching up" (rapture) of the Church age saints.

 

The poster who began this thread made a request. Why do you simply want to ignore that request and start this strife and confusion that will ensue?

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Zephaniah said the day of the Lord will be near after Israel the nation not desired is gathered.

 

 

Zephaniah 1:14-2:3

14 The great day of the LORD is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even the voice of the day of the

 

LORD: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly.

15 That day is a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness,

16 A day of the trumpet and alarm against the fenced cities, and against the high towers.

17 And I will bring distress upon men, that they shall walk like blind men, because they have sinned against the LORD: and their blood shall be poured out as dust, and their flesh as the dung.

18 Neither their silver nor their gold shall be able to deliver them in the day of the LORD's wrath; but the whole land shall be devoured by the fire of his jealousy: for he shall make even a speedy riddance of all them that dwell in the land.

 

1 Gather yourselves together, yea, gather together, O nation not desired;

 

2 Before the decree bring forth, before the day pass as the chaff, before the fierce anger of the LORD come upon you, before the day of the LORD's anger come upon you.

3 Seek ye the LORD, all ye meek of the earth, which have wrought his judgment; seek righteousness, seek meekness: it may be ye shall be hid in the day of the LORD's anger.

 

Isaiah 30:19-24 is the fulfillment of Zephaniah's prophecy of the gathering. The day of the Lord is very,very near and hasteth greatly.

 

Therefore the catching up of the born again believers in Jesus Christ is very, very, very near and hasteth greatly too!

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The lady asked for a thread devoted to discussion of a pre-trib rapture.

 

Can't we respect our sister enough to stick to that in her own thread?

 

That's alright, John.  I was hoping this conversation would get into the Tribulation.

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Prophet1,

 

You have the option of not posting in this discussion.  If you don't like the topic, then ignore this thread.

 

This topic doesn't lead to strife and confusion....except to those who deny the imminency of the "catching up" (rapture) of the Church age saints.

 

The poster who began this thread made a request. Why do you simply want to ignore that request and start this strife and confusion that will ensue?

 

Thank you, LindaR.

The reason that I asked certain people to stay out of the discussion, is b/c not all people believe in a Pre-Tribulation Rapture, Prophet 1.

I am very tired of the contention between Christians on Online Baptist.  This is one of those topics that people end up in an argument over, and it continues for days.   Like yourself, not all people believe in a PTR.  

 

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