Jump to content
  • Welcome Guest

    For an ad free experience on Online Baptist, Please login or register for free

Family Salvation


John81

Recommended Posts

  • Members

The rest of the family would still be responsible for receiving Christ but like I mentioned under some cultures that was almost automatic when the head, patriarch, chief or father got saved.

 

Today there are still some men that commend this respect but I think we are at the place now that Christ spoke of in Luke 12:53.

 

I know of one man who lost everything after he got saved. His wife left him and took the five kids and in the State of New York she doesn't have to have a good reason to depart. The courts will give her everything but the mortgage and bills.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 32
  • Created
  • Last Reply
  • Members

Vs 31 does not say that they were saved; only that they had to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

Vs 32 tells us that "they" were given the word of God.

Vs 33 tells us that they were baptized.

I believe that "they" were saved during the time period of Vs 32.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

If the idea put forth here is false, then does anyone have any idea why Shelton Smith would not only accept this sermon but place it on the front page of the Sword of the Lord, an IFB publication?

 

Has anyone else encountered this teaching elsewhere? As I mentioned, I read it in an Andrew Murray book years ago and that's the only other time I've heard of this teaching.

 

With regards to repentance, Shelton Smith seems to try and play both sides of the issue. I've read articles by him where he says he believes in repentance but then he goes around in so many circles it's hard to tell just what he believes. Kind of like some of Curtis Hutson's stuff sounds like he believes in biblical repentance but other things he put forth seem to diminish it. Then there is the prOBlem of him taking aspects of repentance out of hymns he had published the "Soul Stirring Songs and Hymns" hymnal the Sword sells. (I've heard Shelton Smith bowed to complaints about that and replaced the repentance wording but I've not seen a newer hymnal to check it out myself)

 

I appreciate the input from everyone. Thank you!!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

I've never been one to go with the idea that if the head of household findssalvation that all of the house are automatically saved.I used to belong to a church that changed doctrine after we joined and they suddenly believed this. But I've always held that it was a reference to the fact that a good example will lead others to the truth and wanting to know of God and His grace.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Thank you for the input BettyAnn and welcome to Online Baptist!

 

I've never heard such a thing preached in any church I've been in. I've never heard of the idea among any Fundamentalists before. This is why I'm really wondering why this particular sermon was chosen as one of the front page sermons in the latest Sword of the Lord.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Also, I was taught that the woman is kind of like the Holy Spirit of the family.  I was taught, as a child, that she is the glue that holds the family together.  So, when mama ain't happy, the whole family ain't happy.   :yeah:


I do not know whether the premise expressed in the OP is valid or not; but in my own family's case it started with my Dear Mother who taught and nurtured us children to fear Our Lord. It took many years, but my Father eventually accepted Christ for salvation because of the way she lived. I believe that my immediate family will be in Heaven because of my Mother's efforts and the way she conducted herself.

I am so very grateful for such a woman.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

I've never been one to go with the idea that if the head of household findssalvation that all of the house are automatically saved.I used to belong to a church that changed doctrine after we joined and they suddenly believed this. But I've always held that it was a reference to the fact that a good example will lead others to the truth and wanting to know of God and His grace.

Again, it has to do with the culture of the time. You can still find this response in many parts of the world. How do you think missionaries get whole tribes converted at one time? They usually worked over the chief and got hims saved first then the rest followed. Even with Israel it seemed that their salvation was dependent on the Pharisees converting but they never did so the whole nation ended up paying the price.  You really can't use modern Western culture as an example of why this principle isn't true. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

I've never been one to go with the idea that if the head of household findssalvation that all of the house are automatically saved.I used to belong to a church that changed doctrine after we joined and they suddenly believed this. But I've always held that it was a reference to the fact that a good example will lead others to the truth and wanting to know of God and His grace.

Yes, that is a false doctrine.  See 1 Corinthians 7: 12-16

 

....and 1 Peter 3.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Yes, that is a false doctrine.  See 1 Corinthians 7: 12-16

 

....and 1 Peter 3.

How do these passages prove it's false doctrine?  If anything I Corinthians 7:14 support this interpretation. It's nothing about doctrine anyway but about the culture and mindset of the people of the time. Exceptions prove the rule. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

The verses weren't necessarily meant to directly prove how that the "automatic salvation" thing was false doctrine, but to show that it is our manner of life which influences our spouse and family toward salvation. I don't know where you're getting the "culture" stuff.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Are we confusing two separate thoughts here?

The Bible is plain that every man will stand before God and make an account for himself.
Even those who believe in different forms of salvation in general would agree that no man can do anything to make another saved.

But in certain cultures, particularly those which are heavily tribal, the average person would not dare to defy their chief or elder. This means that it very very difficult to reach these groups.
However, if the chief gets saved, then the tribe becomes "available" for salvation.
But it does not mean that everyone in the tribe automatically gets saved.

So, before the chief's salvation, it is very hard for anyone in the tribe to get saved because of the pressure.
After the chief gets saved the people are allowed to open up to the Gospel.

This is the cultural aspect.

But it neither stops nor ensures the salvation of any individual.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

The verses weren't necessarily meant to directly prove how that the "automatic salvation" thing was false doctrine, but to show that it is our manner of life which influences our spouse and family toward salvation. I don't know where you're getting the "culture" stuff.

In some cultures the father or patriarch was revered and the family pretty much followed him no matter what. They still had to of their own free will accept Christ but the family was more unified under the head of the household more than they are now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Are we confusing two separate thoughts here?

The Bible is plain that every man will stand before God and make an account for himself.
Even those who believe in different forms of salvation in general would agree that no man can do anything to make another saved.

But in certain cultures, particularly those which are heavily tribal, the average person would not dare to defy their chief or elder. This means that it very very difficult to reach these groups.
However, if the chief gets saved, then the tribe becomes "available" for salvation.
But it does not mean that everyone in the tribe automatically gets saved.

So, before the chief's salvation, it is very hard for anyone in the tribe to get saved because of the pressure.
After the chief gets saved the people are allowed to open up to the Gospel.

This is the cultural aspect.

But it neither stops nor ensures the salvation of any individual.

Yes, this was the point I was trying to make when I mentioned the manners and customs of that era.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

This can't be a cultural thing because the Bible is clear all these people were saved. One can't just decide they will follow whatever the patriarch is doing and be considered biblically saved. For the Bible to say one is saved, that means they have submitted to the calling of the Holy Ghost, surrendering to Christ as their Saviour and Lord.

 

A cultural Christian is one who calls themselves a Christian because their family is "Christian" or it's the dominate religion of their nation or some such.

 

Biblical salvation doesn't come through cultural followings. Catholics and Muslims believe one is a Catholic or Muslim simply because of the family they belong to. Sadly America is full of secular Christians who are not biblically saved Christians, but are cultural Christians who call themselves Christian simply because their family is "Christian".

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.



×
×
  • Create New...