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Kjvo And Original Languages


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My question may sound antagonistic, but it is not. 

 

If the King James version of Scriptures is the "perfect version for the English-speaking peoples" as some claim, why does it seem that those same people often refer to the original Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic languages when explaining a belief? 

 

The best example of this that I can think of is the debate about wine and grape juice. 

 

 

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My question may sound antagonistic, but it is not. 

 

If the King James version of Scriptures is the "perfect version for the English-speaking peoples" as some claim, why does it seem that those same people often refer to the original Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic languages when explaining a belief? 

 

The best example of this that I can think of is the debate about wine and grape juice. 

Because they think the original languages have some kind of magical properties and that God could only inspire his word in languages that are either dead and/or only a very few can read.

 

A lot of people don't really believe what they claim to believe.

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Although some misuse the language issue, it is no different to looking up the definitions in a dictionary.
The language definitions NEVER change the meaning.

 

If the KJV uses the word wine to describe alcoholic and nonalcoholic grape juice, and the difference is significant,  then why did the translators not make a distinction between the two?

 

Again, I use this as an example because it is the best, most common one that comes to mind.

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The English words used in the AV Bible represent the broad meanings of the original languages, none of which we can verify today because we have no originals, neither did they have them in 1605.  Strong's Greek dictionary is filled with Classical Greek defitions attributed to the Koine Greek words of the NT Text.  the Hebrew also the originals are lost but God preserved them. every one just as he wanted us to know them in the AV Bible.

 

A good English dictionary will help you find the broad meanings of these words in English and a few advanced revelation when newer meanings were added as of late.  God was so wise and all knowing he knew the English better than we.

 

He who made the mouth knows the words that will proceed before they are even spoken.   Isa 57:19a I create the fruit of the lips; That is the words that will proceed out of them.

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If the KJV uses the word wine to describe alcoholic and nonalcoholic grape juice, and the difference is significant,  then why did the translators not make a distinction between the two?

 

Again, I use this as an example because it is the best, most common one that comes to mind.

 

The KJV (Old Testament) comes from the Hebrew Masoretic Text, Arbo.  In Hebrew, the text is flawless.  I used the Hebrew definition of "wine" to help people better understand the difference between grape juice and fermented wine.  Some people were not understanding it from the KJV.  If you would like, I could find all the scriptures in the OT and NT to help people understand the word, "wine" better.  However, we would have another thread on "wine" and their would be more arguments on it.   ;)  I am certain the conversation will come up in another thread, in the future.  The KJV is the final authority in understanding God's Word.    

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Perhaps I am not making myself understood well enough.  I've no desire to get into another thread about alcohol.  The usages of the word 'wine' was simply the best example that I could think of.

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If the KJV uses the word wine to describe alcoholic and nonalcoholic grape juice, and the difference is significant,  then why did the translators not make a distinction between the two?

 

Again, I use this as an example because it is the best, most common one that comes to mind.

 

Because even English didn't make a distinction between the two until the early 20th century. Most English dictionaries will still list something like the following in their definitions: "the juice, fermented or unfermented, of various other fruits or plants, used as a beverage, sauce, etc." If you check older dictionaries, the distinction is less clear than it is today. I have an 1828 Webster's Dictionary that suggests it was used interchangeably even then.

 

 

If the King James version of Scriptures is the "perfect version for the English-speaking peoples" as some claim, why does it seem that those same people often refer to the original Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic languages when explaining a belief? 

 

Because there are nuances of highly inflected languages like Greek and Hebrew and they can help clarify the intended meaning of an English word. Consider how many ways we use the word "hand" (anatomy, applause, measurement, cards, help/aid, etc). Context usually makes the usage clear but sometimes not so much. Going to the original language can narrow the range of meaning of the English word used and/or pinpoint the intended usage.

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AVB-  If the meanings of some words are subject to change with the passage of time, why is it wrong that updated versions reflect those changes?

Why eliminate the older meanings just because new ones are added?

 

when you interpret a Bible using an English word that is a pinpointed meaning of the newer meaning you effectively eliminate the original or older meanings.  Use the Broad English word that reflects all the meanings and adjust your teaching to reflect the application from all the meanings.

 

Why not keep them all and see that the English has the Broadness of the original languages.

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Perhaps I am not making myself understood well enough.  I've no desire to get into another thread about alcohol.  The usages of the word 'wine' was simply the best example that I could think of.

 

Oh, that's good to hear Arbo.  I am really exhausted about talking about alcohol.   :lol:

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Because even English didn't make a distinction between the two until the early 20th century. Most English dictionaries will still list something like the following in their definitions: "the juice, fermented or unfermented, of various other fruits or plants, used as a beverage, sauce, etc." If you check older dictionaries, the distinction is less clear than it is today. I have an 1828 Webster's Dictionary that suggests it was used interchangeably even then.

 

 

 

Because there are nuances of highly inflected languages like Greek and Hebrew and they can help clarify the intended meaning of an English word. Consider how many ways we use the word "hand" (anatomy, applause, measurement, cards, help/aid, etc). Context usually makes the usage clear but sometimes not so much. Going to the original language can narrow the range of meaning of the English word used and/or pinpoint the intended usage.

:goodpost:   What he said!

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:goodpost:   What he said!

Would you say then that God did not correctly preserve his word to this generation the way he wanted it too, so we have to go to the Greek and Hebrew to get those languages nuances and uses to correct the English?

 

I would think that if we have to correct the English AV Bible then it is not preserved as promised and therefore we should not be following a God who can't keep his words and promises.

 

And beside the Greek meanings are CLASSICAL Greek imposed on Koine Greek words because there never was and cannot be found today a Koine Greek Dictionary.   there is a big difference between Classical Greek and Koine Greek and as such we have confusing interpretations from the Greek today. 

 

So either God preserved his words or he didn't

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Why eliminate the older meanings just because new ones are added?

 

when you interpret a Bible using an English word that is a pinpointed meaning of the newer meaning you effectively eliminate the original or older meanings.  Use the Broad English word that reflects all the meanings and adjust your teaching to reflect the application from all the meanings.

 

Why not keep them all and see that the English has the Broadness of the original languages.

 

So you're basically saying to use whichever meaning fits what you want to teach...? Unless I misunderstood you, I firmly disagree. Such a position basically makes the Biblical truth flexible with the times and culture.

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