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The Glory Land

Can God Use A Man That Drinks Wine?

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People need to read before they make false statements The Member named "Candlelight claims I said the Jesus drank alcoholic wine when in fact I said the opposite. I would like an apology for that please Candlelight, Here is your quote "I am shocked when I here about a Christian talk about Jesus drinking alcoholic wine" that is a lie for I never did make any such claims. I do not drink any one who preaches the gospel is not to drink period. That is why John the Baptist refuse to drink wine. I am a Biblicist so I believe the bible word for word I do not believe there is any hidden meaning in part of the bible. So if it says wine it means wine period. Good wine is not a hidden code for grape juice.

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Darren, there is no Bible term for "grape juice" right? So what do you suppose they called the stuff that spilled out of the grapes right after they stomped them? I believe they called it "wine" right then didn't they? Would the pure and righteous Son of God give alcoholic wine, (which his word calls a "mocker") to people, when His Word also says it is a "woe unto him" to do so?

 

Habakuk 2:15Woe unto him that giveth his neighbour drink, that puttest thy bottle to him, and makest him drunken also, that thou mayest look on their nakedness!

Edited by heartstrings

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People need to read before they make false statements The Member named "Candlelight claims I said the Jesus drank alcoholic wine when in fact I said the opposite. I would like an apology for that please Candlelight, Here is your quote "I am shocked when I here about a Christian talk about Jesus drinking alcoholic wine" that is a lie for I never did make any such claims. I do not drink any one who preaches the gospel is not to drink period. That is why John the Baptist refuse to drink wine. I am a Biblicist so I believe the bible word for word I do not believe there is any hidden meaning in part of the bible. So if it says wine it means wine period. Good wine is not a hidden code for grape juice.


Not too slow to be offended, eh?  Ease up.  Perhaps she misunderstood. 

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I do not drink, not because I can not handle it but because I mad a vow with God not too. I used to drink wine in fact I used to make my own wine as a hobby. 1 Timothy 3:3 when referring to a Bishop same thing as a Pastor it says not giving to wine. But when it gives the qualifications of a deacon it says in 1 Timothy 3:8 not giving to much wine. So why is a Pastor not to have any wine and a deacon not to have much wine. Well that is hard to answer. I would prefer nobody drink it causes problems trust me I know. Did Jesus make real wine at the wedding yes I believe he did people are not going to save the best grape juice for last that is just silly. I believe the bible says what it means and means what it says and he made water into wine period not new wine not grape juice but wine, He is the catcher though Jesus did not drink it. Now at the last supper did he use wine will they only had a sip and if that was wine it was all Jesus ever had though if I preform the Lords supper I would only use grape juice.

 

Now the problem is if it is okay to have small amounts of wine how much is to much and when is it ok. You should never drink around children period. You should never drink when you are going to operate a vehicle or make any important decision. You should never drink in public it is a bad witness the sinner observing you doesn't know how much you are drinking. We must avoid the appearance of evil. So when and how much is a big question. The wine made today is about 12% alcohol the wine made in the bible days was 6% or less. So if they drank a glass of wine you would only have a half a glass. Now I said I used to drink until I decided to follow my calling and get ordained but I took a vow like John the Baptist did. I like the fact that I drank for one reason it gave me something to give up for GOD. I only drank at celebrations and before bed it helped me get to sleep easy.

 

Some day I will be a Pastor of a Church and what will I tell people if you tell some one it is okay to have a drink they will have two drinks. I know how people are. Alcohol has cause so much deviation in so man peoples lives I have seen it with my own eyes I have seen the carnage cause by drinking. I was a medic in the navy years ago and saw the mess and horrible injuries inflicted and caused by drinking. I was a cab driver and have seen people at there worst while drinking. What is the fine line you cross from having a drink to being a drunkard. The bible says drunkards can not enter the kingdom.

 

If you want my advice take it or leave it. You do not need any wine. You need to serve the Lord and help reach the lost and dying world out there. Take a vow like John the Baptist did an for sake drinking all together. Serve the LORD win souls for GOD. Help out a ministry. The time is short here don't waste you salvation on a glass of wine it is not that important what is important is peoples lives. Open you eyes a see what drinking has done in your community. GOD BLESS you.

You said Jesus made alcoholic wine, Darren.  I replied to your post that He did not.  Please re-read your post.  Thank you.

Edited by candlelight

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Or, perhaps he misunderstood.  He says that he does not believe wine is grape juice.  Well, according to John 2, Jesus  and His Disciples wanted wine at that wedding feast in Cana. 

John 2:1-3 And the third day there was a marriage in Cana of Galilee; and the mother of Jesus was there: And both Jesus was called, and his disciples, to the marriage. And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine.

They?  Who is "they" referring to?  Why, the subjects... Jesus and the Disciples.

What?  Jesus wanted alcohol?  Well, He and His Disciples wanted wine, as the passage clearly states.  Darren says all wine is alcoholic and also says Jesus did not drink wine. 

What did He want wine for if He was not going to drink it?
 

And Scripture does reveal that Jesus did in fact drink wine.

Mark 14:25 Verily I say unto you, I will drink no more of the fruit of the vine, until that day that I drink it new in the kingdom of God.

I will drink no more of the fruit of the vine until...

As candlelight so rightly pointed out, the fruit of the vine is clearly called wine in Isaiah 65:8

Isaiah 65:8 Thus saith the LORD, As the new wine is found in the cluster, and one saith, Destroy it not; for a blessing is in it: so will I do for my servants' sakes, that I may not destroy them all.

So, there is no doubt that Jesus did in fact drink wine.

But contrary to Darren's uneducated claim, not all wine was alcoholic in the Bible.  And the wine that Jesus drank was the pure blood of the grape; i.e., grape juice.

Edited by Standing Firm In Christ

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But contrary to Darren's uneducated claim, not all wine was alcoholic in the Bible.  And the wine that Jesus drank was the pure blood of the grape; i.e., grape juice.

And with the addition of the superfluous adjective "uneducated", I foresee this thread nose diving into contention rather than discussion. (Sound familiar??)

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You seem have to no idea of tact and courtesy.
No, technically there is nothing wrong with what you wrote, but the likelihood is that he will be offended by your use of an unnecessary term.

It didn't need to be said.

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I guess the Lord and His Apostles had much less tact and courtesy than I. Perhaps I should begin imitating His speech and refer to those teaching falsely as blind guides? Or the Apostle's term, ignorant?

Uneducated is mild compared to what the Lord and His Apostles would have used.

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If he has not studied the topic, then the claim is uneducated. Nothing wrong with my statement. I could have used a term the Apostle used, I suppose... Unlearned. But don't they mean the same thing?


What benefit do you think would be gained by intentionally being insulting to a brother?

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What benefit do you think would be gained by intentionally being insulting to a brother?

 

SFIC has made it very clear in these discussions that he considers anybody who believes Jesus could coneivably have drunk wine to be unsaved. Therefore, he doesn't think Darren is a brother. Just supplying some context.

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My Jesus did not drink alcohol, obviously if yours did, we are not serving the same Jesus.

 

Thanks for confirming what I was saying, SFIC. If your point in posts 105 onwards was to say that actually Darren does think that Jesus may have drank alcohol, then it logically follows that you do not think Darren is a Christian. Like I said, I was just making that obvious for any that aren't familiar with your views.

 

Of course, the logical conclusion of your 'different Jesus' argument is that anyone who differs with you on any point of scripture isn't saved:

 

My Jesus did not teach that we are to tithe to pastors, obviously if yours did, we are not serving the same Jesus.

 

My Jesus did not teach XYZ view about the end times, obviously if yours did, we are not serving the same Jesus.

 

My Jesus did not have XYZ views about dressing for church, obviously if yours did, we are not serving the same Jesus.

 

My Jesus is against CCM, obviously if yours isn't, we are not serving the same Jesus.

 

Etc, etc..

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I would never serve a Jesus who condemns people to the lake of fire for being drunkards, but made alcohol for a bunch of people who had well drunk already.

Yes, such a Jesus is different than the Jesus I serve.

You guys can defend a distributor of alcohol if you choose. I will serve a Jesus who is free from sin.

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Sounds like many embrace ecumenism these days.


The Jesus who did not drink alcohol is no different than the Jesus who did drink alcohol
The Jesus who condemns drunkenness is no different than the Jesus who endorses the giving of alcohol to drunks.
The Jesus who created the world in six days is the same Jesus who spent millions of years to create the world.

2 Corinthians 11:4 (KJV)
For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or [if] ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with [him].

Can two walk together except they be agreed?

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When it comes to salvation, one has to believe that Jesus is the Son of God, that He gave His life as a ransom for us and by His shed blood we are cleansed when we accept Him as Lord and Saviour. That's the Jesus one has to know to be saved.

 

Other points may be important in other matters, but not with regards to salvation.

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I agree that we have to believe those things about Jesus. But which Jesus are we to believe has those attributes?

We are warned of false christ's in the world. We are warned of another Jesus than the one the Apostles preached.

I believe lying christ's deceive many to believe others into believing they are the Son of God. Look at Matthew 7. Many will stand before the real Jesus saying they they did things in His name... Yet He does not know them.

Why not? They were serving another christ and not the true christ.

Do the Catholics serve christ who had brothers and sisters? No! They serve a son of a perpetual virgin. Yet, they say this son is the one who died and rose from the dead.

When someone says Jesus made alcohol, they are presenting a false Christ. If they were following the right Jesus, they would not present a false Jesus.

When someone says Jesus drank alcohol, they are presenting a false Christ. If they were following the right Jesus, they would not present a false Jesus.


The Jesus whom we serve is important. We need to make sure that Jesus fits perfectly the description of the Jesus of the Bible.

If not, we obviously serve another Jesus.

Edited by Standing Firm In Christ

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The Jesus whom we serve is important. We need to make sure that Jesus fits perfectly the description of the Jesus of the Bible. If not, we obviously serve another Jesus.

 

Exactly, SFIC. So like I said, the logical conclusion of your 'different Jesus' argument is that anyone who differs with you on any point of scripture isn't saved.

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John, your statement puts every single Catholic in heaven, every single Mormon in heaven, and many other cults in heaven. 

They too believe that Jesus is the Son of God, lived, died, was buried, rose again.

Your belief is very ecumenical.

We must believe in the right Jesus or we know not the right Jesus.

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