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Can God Use A Man That Drinks Wine?


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But contrary to Darren's uneducated claim, not all wine was alcoholic in the Bible.  And the wine that Jesus drank was the pure blood of the grape; i.e., grape juice.

And with the addition of the superfluous adjective "uneducated", I foresee this thread nose diving into contention rather than discussion. (Sound familiar??)

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I am in constant awe at Christians who have arrived spiritually to the point where they can read other people's hearts and know whether or not they are saved based on a twisted version of a few words

If you take a bowl out of the cabinet and it is dirty, can you use it for ice cream. Why yes you can! However if your standard is cleanliness, it doesn't matter that you can use it, you will not use i

  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

You seem have to no idea of tact and courtesy.
No, technically there is nothing wrong with what you wrote, but the likelihood is that he will be offended by your use of an unnecessary term.

It didn't need to be said.

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I guess the Lord and His Apostles had much less tact and courtesy than I. Perhaps I should begin imitating His speech and refer to those teaching falsely as blind guides? Or the Apostle's term, ignorant?

Uneducated is mild compared to what the Lord and His Apostles would have used.

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If he has not studied the topic, then the claim is uneducated. Nothing wrong with my statement. I could have used a term the Apostle used, I suppose... Unlearned. But don't they mean the same thing?


What benefit do you think would be gained by intentionally being insulting to a brother?
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What benefit do you think would be gained by intentionally being insulting to a brother?

 

SFIC has made it very clear in these discussions that he considers anybody who believes Jesus could coneivably have drunk wine to be unsaved. Therefore, he doesn't think Darren is a brother. Just supplying some context.

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My Jesus did not drink alcohol, obviously if yours did, we are not serving the same Jesus.

 

Thanks for confirming what I was saying, SFIC. If your point in posts 105 onwards was to say that actually Darren does think that Jesus may have drank alcohol, then it logically follows that you do not think Darren is a Christian. Like I said, I was just making that obvious for any that aren't familiar with your views.

 

Of course, the logical conclusion of your 'different Jesus' argument is that anyone who differs with you on any point of scripture isn't saved:

 

My Jesus did not teach that we are to tithe to pastors, obviously if yours did, we are not serving the same Jesus.

 

My Jesus did not teach XYZ view about the end times, obviously if yours did, we are not serving the same Jesus.

 

My Jesus did not have XYZ views about dressing for church, obviously if yours did, we are not serving the same Jesus.

 

My Jesus is against CCM, obviously if yours isn't, we are not serving the same Jesus.

 

Etc, etc..

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I would never serve a Jesus who condemns people to the lake of fire for being drunkards, but made alcohol for a bunch of people who had well drunk already.

Yes, such a Jesus is different than the Jesus I serve.

You guys can defend a distributor of alcohol if you choose. I will serve a Jesus who is free from sin.

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Sounds like many embrace ecumenism these days.


The Jesus who did not drink alcohol is no different than the Jesus who did drink alcohol
The Jesus who condemns drunkenness is no different than the Jesus who endorses the giving of alcohol to drunks.
The Jesus who created the world in six days is the same Jesus who spent millions of years to create the world.

2 Corinthians 11:4 (KJV)
For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or [if] ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with [him].

Can two walk together except they be agreed?

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When it comes to salvation, one has to believe that Jesus is the Son of God, that He gave His life as a ransom for us and by His shed blood we are cleansed when we accept Him as Lord and Saviour. That's the Jesus one has to know to be saved.

 

Other points may be important in other matters, but not with regards to salvation.

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I agree that we have to believe those things about Jesus. But which Jesus are we to believe has those attributes?

We are warned of false christ's in the world. We are warned of another Jesus than the one the Apostles preached.

I believe lying christ's deceive many to believe others into believing they are the Son of God. Look at Matthew 7. Many will stand before the real Jesus saying they they did things in His name... Yet He does not know them.

Why not? They were serving another christ and not the true christ.

Do the Catholics serve christ who had brothers and sisters? No! They serve a son of a perpetual virgin. Yet, they say this son is the one who died and rose from the dead.

When someone says Jesus made alcohol, they are presenting a false Christ. If they were following the right Jesus, they would not present a false Jesus.

When someone says Jesus drank alcohol, they are presenting a false Christ. If they were following the right Jesus, they would not present a false Jesus.


The Jesus whom we serve is important. We need to make sure that Jesus fits perfectly the description of the Jesus of the Bible.

If not, we obviously serve another Jesus.

Edited by Standing Firm In Christ
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The Jesus whom we serve is important. We need to make sure that Jesus fits perfectly the description of the Jesus of the Bible. If not, we obviously serve another Jesus.

 

Exactly, SFIC. So like I said, the logical conclusion of your 'different Jesus' argument is that anyone who differs with you on any point of scripture isn't saved.

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John, your statement puts every single Catholic in heaven, every single Mormon in heaven, and many other cults in heaven. 

They too believe that Jesus is the Son of God, lived, died, was buried, rose again.

Your belief is very ecumenical.

We must believe in the right Jesus or we know not the right Jesus.

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I agree that we have to believe those things about Jesus. But which Jesus are we to believe has those attributes?

We are warned of false christ's in the world. We are warned of another Jesus than the one the Apostles preached.

I believe lying christ's deceive many to believe others into believing they are the Son of God. Look at Matthew 7. Many will stand before the real Jesus saying they they did things in His name... Yet He does not know them.

Why not? They were serving another christ and not the true christ.

Do the Catholics serve christ who had brothers and sisters? No! They serve a son of a perpetual virgin. Yet, they say this son is the one who died and rose from the dead.

When someone says Jesus made alcohol, they are presenting a false Christ. If they were following the right Jesus, they would not present a false Jesus.

When someone says Jesus drank alcohol, they are presenting a false Christ. If they were following the right Jesus, they would not present a false Jesus.


The Jesus whom we serve is important. We need to make sure that Jesus fits perfectly the description of the Jesus of the Bible.

If not, we obviously serve another Jesus.





You are talking about two Jesus? I believe in three Jesus. Jesus the father, Jesus the Son and Jesus the Holy Spirit. So you fall short one. :)
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Jesus said in John 3 that he that believeth on the Son hath eternal life. He that hath the Son hath eternal life.

There are many christs in the world many false Jesus's are being presented in churches all around the world.

The True Son is found in the Word of God.

Jesus said to Mary and Martha, I am the resurrection and the life. He that believeth in Me, though he were dead shall live.

We must believe in the true Christ, or or belief is in vain.

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Who here considered every point of possible difference regarding Jesus before they were born again?

 

No, what I've said doesn't put a single Catholic or Mormon in heaven. Both Catholics and Mormons believe in a works based salvation. It doesn't matter what they think regarding wine, CCM, or SUVs.

 

Salvation and learning and growing in the Lord are two different things.

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Jesus said in John 3 that he that believeth on the Son hath eternal life. He that hath the Son hath eternal life.

There are many christs in the world many false Jesus's are being presented in churches all around the world.

The True Son is found in the Word of God.

Jesus said to Mary and Martha, I am the resurrection and the life. He that believeth in Me, though he were dead shall live.

We must believe in the true Christ, or or belief is in vain.





You have mentioned that you don't see very well in the past. How is it that you spell correctly and so quickly reply. Just checking, forgive me for my poor grammar.
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No, those who believe in a Jesus other than the Jesus portrayed in the Bible are unsaved.

 

Right, but the way you define belief in 'the Jesus portrayed in the Bible' seemingly includes everything the Bible speaks on. You even gave an example yourself:

 

 

The Jesus who created the world in six days is (not) the same Jesus who spent millions of years to create the world.

 

So here you are saying that anyone who is wrong or ignorant about how many days the world was created in is unsaved and cannot be saved until they first gain a correct knowledge of it.

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I surprise my wife at times with my typing skills. Many years of practice has taught me how to type on the keyboard behind my back. One does not need to have good vision to learn how to spell or type.

For example, close your eyes and spell horse. Now, that wasn't hard, was it? LOL

(I wonder how many are trying the keyboard thing now? ROFL)

Edited by Standing Firm In Christ
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The trick to the keyboard thing is to lean the keyboard against the back of the chair instead of laying it flat on the seat. Place your hands behind your back as if you are reaching in your back pockets, rotate. Then, feel for the raised notches on the j and f keys . Then type. LOL

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The trick to the keyboard thing is to lean the keyboard against the back of the chair instead of laying it flat on the seat. Place your hands behind your back as if you are reaching in your back pockets, rotate. Then, feel for the raised notches on the j and f keys . Then type. LOL

 

Perhaps if you're drinking...

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It does sound like SFIC is saying that if someone does not interpret any part of the scripture that has to do with Jesus and wine exactly as he does cannot be saved.  

It also sounds to me that SFIC is saying that if you believe Jesus drank or made alcoholic wine you believe in a false Christ.  And since the word "antichrist" is made up of two roots: αντί (anti) + Χριστός (Khristos). "Αντί" can mean not only "against" and "opposite of", but also "in place of", "Χριστός", translated "Christ".  So I guess if according to SFIC if you agree with him on the Jesus and alcohol issue you believe in Jesus, whereas if you disagree with him on the subject of Jesus and alcohol you just could be worshiping an antichrist. 

 

I do not agree with SFIC on this issue therefor I must be damned.  If I am wrong, (it wouldn't be the first time) I am willing to be corrected.

 

God bless,

Larry

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It does sound like SFIC is saying that if someone does not interpret any part of the scripture that has to do with Jesus and wine exactly as he does cannot be saved.
It also sounds to me that SFIC is saying that if you believe Jesus drank or made alcoholic wine you believe in a false Christ. And since the word "antichrist" is made up of two roots: αντί (anti) + Χριστός (Khristos). "Αντί" can mean not only "against" and "opposite of", but also "in place of", "Χριστός", translated "Christ". So I guess if according to SFIC if you agree with him on the Jesus and alcohol issue you believe in Jesus, whereas if you disagree with him on the subject of Jesus and alcohol you just could be worshiping an antichrist.

I do not agree with SFIC on this issue therefor I must be damned. If I am wrong, (it wouldn't be the first time) I am willing to be corrected.

God bless,
Larry





I am sorry, you can only get Saved Ones.
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Right, but the way you define belief in 'the Jesus portrayed in the Bible' seemingly includes everything the Bible speaks on. You even gave an example yourself:

 

 

So here you are saying that anyone who is wrong or ignorant about how many days the world was created in is unsaved and cannot be saved until they first gain a correct knowledge of it.

Let's put it this way. 

If you were witnessing to me and told me that Jesus Christ was born, died on a cross and rose again the third day, and I believed it, your contention would be that I would be saved. 

But what if, down the road, you told me that the Jesus you have always believed in shot up heroin? or snorted cocaine on occasion?  Would I be saved?  Of course not.  But you presented to me the same Jesus back then, but left out some details as to who that Jesus was.  The Jesus you led me to was the drug addicted Jesus, not the Jesus of the Bible... even though you said that Jesus died, was buried and rose again.

When we preach Christ, we had better be preaching the right Christ.  If we are preaching the christ of our understanding, and that christ was a christ contrary to the Christ of Scripture, we have preached the wrong christ.  No matter how much we want to think it was the right one.

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