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Can God Use A Man That Drinks Wine?


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I do not drink, not because I can not handle it but because I mad a vow with God not too. I used to drink wine in fact I used to make my own wine as a hobby. 1 Timothy 3:3 when referring to a Bishop same thing as a Pastor it says not giving to wine. But when it gives the qualifications of a deacon it says in 1 Timothy 3:8 not giving to much wine. So why is a Pastor not to have any wine and a deacon not to have much wine. Well that is hard to answer. I would prefer nobody drink it causes problems trust me I know. Did Jesus make real wine at the wedding yes I believe he did people are not going to save the best grape juice for last that is just silly. I believe the bible says what it means and means what it says and he made water into wine period not new wine not grape juice but wine, He is the catcher though Jesus did not drink it. Now at the last supper did he use wine will they only had a sip and if that was wine it was all Jesus ever had though if I preform the Lords supper I would only use grape juice.

 

Now the problem is if it is okay to have small amounts of wine how much is to much and when is it ok. You should never drink around children period. You should never drink when you are going to operate a vehicle or make any important decision. You should never drink in public it is a bad witness the sinner observing you doesn't know how much you are drinking. We must avoid the appearance of evil. So when and how much is a big question. The wine made today is about 12% alcohol the wine made in the bible days was 6% or less. So if they drank a glass of wine you would only have a half a glass. Now I said I used to drink until I decided to follow my calling and get ordained but I took a vow like John the Baptist did. I like the fact that I drank for one reason it gave me something to give up for GOD. I only drank at celebrations and before bed it helped me get to sleep easy.

 

Some day I will be a Pastor of a Church and what will I tell people if you tell some one it is okay to have a drink they will have two drinks. I know how people are. Alcohol has cause so much deviation in so man peoples lives I have seen it with my own eyes I have seen the carnage cause by drinking. I was a medic in the navy years ago and saw the mess and horrible injuries inflicted and caused by drinking. I was a cab driver and have seen people at there worst while drinking. What is the fine line you cross from having a drink to being a drunkard. The bible says drunkards can not enter the kingdom.

 

If you want my advice take it or leave it. You do not need any wine. You need to serve the Lord and help reach the lost and dying world out there. Take a vow like John the Baptist did an for sake drinking all together. Serve the LORD win souls for GOD. Help out a ministry. The time is short here don't waste you salvation on a glass of wine it is not that important what is important is peoples lives. Open you eyes a see what drinking has done in your community. GOD BLESS you.

 

**Reposting**
 

John 2:1-10

King James Version (KJV)

 
And the third day there was a marriage in Cana of Galilee; and the mother of Jesus was there:
And both Jesus was called, and his disciples, to the marriage.
And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine.
Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come.
His mother saith unto the servants, Whatsoever he saith unto you, do it.
And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece.
Jesus saith unto them, Fill the waterpots with water. And they filled them up to the brim.
And he saith unto them, Draw out now, and bear unto the governor of the feast. And they bare it.
When the ruler of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine, and knew not whence it was: (but the servants which drew the water knew;) the governor of the feast called the bridegroom,
10 And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine until now.
  
The "good wine" was not alcoholic wine.  It was PURE grape juice.  I am shocked when I hear Christians talk about Jesus drinking alcoholic wine.  How could the sinless Son of God miraculously fabricate a wine which His own Holy Word denounced as "the poison of the serpent." Proverbs 23-32.  Also, the Proverbs are principles to live by not promises.  Lets flip the coin and show the other side.  Some Christians will use every gimmick of interpretation and every technical loophole. Christ's first miracle is one of the most misunderstood passages in the Bible.  But there is no foundation in scripture to back the assumption that Jesus drank fermented wine.  It was his enemies that said this.  I am certainly not going to support his enemies.  Our Saviour is sinless. If Jesus made and drank alcoholic wine, let's all do it.  Lets let our children go on their merry way towards alcoholism.  

Not all wine is alcoholic any more than all cider is hard.  It is inconceivable to me that our blessed Lord Jesus Christ would ever produce an intoxicant, or that He used fermented wine at Passover.  The Jews (at that time) did not drink alcohol during Passover.  It was forbidden.  He used this wine at Passover as the symbol of His own shed blood.

Fermented wine is decayed wine.  Can that be the symbol of new life in the Spirit?  His holy flesh never saw decay or corruption.  The cup of the Lord and the cup of the devil are two entirely different things.  Jesus also miraculously created bread to feed the five thousand, but it was not moldy bread.  Now did he create rotten fish?  Jesus Christ is the creator of life, not death.
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I am in constant awe at Christians who have arrived spiritually to the point where they can read other people's hearts and know whether or not they are saved based on a twisted version of a few words

If you take a bowl out of the cabinet and it is dirty, can you use it for ice cream. Why yes you can! However if your standard is cleanliness, it doesn't matter that you can use it, you will not use i

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**Reposting**

John 2:1-10
King James Version (KJV)


2 apiece.
7
The "good wine" was not alcoholic wine. It was PURE grape juice. I am shocked when I hear Christians talk about Jesus drinking alcoholic wine. How could the sinless Son of God miraculously fabricate a wine which His own Holy Word denounced as "the poison of the serpent." Proverbs 23-32. Also, the Proverbs are principles to live by not promises. Lets flip the coin and show the other side. Some Christians will use every gimmick of interpretation and every technical loophole. Christ's first miracle is one of the most misunderstood passages in the Bible. But there is no foundation in scripture to back the assumption that Jesus drank fermented wine. It was his enemies that said this. I am certainly not going to support his enemies. Our Saviour is sinless. If Jesus made and drank alcoholic wine, let's all do it. Lets let our children go on their merry way towards alcoholism.
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So the guests at Cana were all teetotalers? I don't believe that. And, if it was only grape juice why would people go back for seconds or thirds??? They must have been really thirsty for non-alcoholic grape juice. No, I believe the wine they had at Cana was fermented and people were have a good time and ran out. Then Jesus made them good wine., so good that the guests (who were not teetotalers) complemented the host.
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First of all, HC, let me say that I'm not disputing that this group are wrong when they say salvation can be lost. Nevertheless, I don't see how making a free will choice to stay with God--or to not walk away--could be called a 'work', even if it were possible. If we say that exercising free will to stay with God would be a work, how then do we not also say that exercising free will to turn to God is a work? And, of course, that exactly what Calvinists say about those who believe that man has the free will to turn to God--they say they are teaching works salvation.

That is a good point, Carl, but think with me on this...

 

God has offered the gift of salvation freely to all who will come to Him.  Christ did the work of redemption on the cross, and so no man needs to do anything to have this gift - except realize that one is a sinner and turn to Christ.

 

Now, God has promised that salvation is eternal, and that it is a gift. Gifts can only be received, not worked for (or they are no longer a gift).  That we can all agree on, no?

 

Okay....so, salvation is only through Christ.  And that necessarily includes the eternal aspect of it, because God has said that the life He gives is eternal, everlasting.

 

If there were any way to lose that salvation, there would be conditions put on that salvation - and necessarily so, because it wouldn't be fair of God to give us something that we could lose if we did or didn't do something and didn't know about it. (hope that's clear...).  And God is completely just, so always fair.

 

Once salvation is given, there is no more free will to walk away from it (as in losing it...there is free will to backslide).  Why? Because salvation is from God, is eternal, and God will not go back on His word.

 

If a person could walk away by free will, and thus lose his/her salvation, that person would exhibit more power than the blood of Jesus and more power than the word of God who says salvation is eternal.

 

Thus, what they are teaching is a works-based salvation because keeping it is contingent upon the will of the person being saved rather than the One doing the saving.

 

I hope that makes sense...

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I do not drink, not because I can not handle it but because I mad a vow with God not too.

 

Did Jesus make real wine at the wedding yes I believe he did...

 

Some day I will be a Pastor of a Church...

 

Sir, the Lord can't use you yet because you're thinking on this matter is not in accord with the Scriptures.  Why would God tell us not even to look at it and then make it for a party?  Nonsense.

 

Swath, where have they espoused salvation by works?

 

I've not seen it in writing, well once, a long time ago but I do not remember, it's on their big website though, cleverly phrased.  I learned much more by reading a book about them and even more by knowing many of them!  They all believe that you can lose your salvation and have to earn it back.  One example is that if you don't commune with Jesus enough, you can lose your salvation, you have to keep praying, going to church and tithing several of them said.  More nonsense.

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So the guests at Cana were all teetotalers? I don't believe that. And, if it was only grape juice why would people go back for seconds or thirds??? They must have been really thirsty for non-alcoholic grape juice. No, I believe the wine they had at Cana was fermented and people were have a good time and ran out. Then Jesus made them good wine., so good that the guests (who were not teetotalers) complemented the host.

 

You can either believe the word of God, or yourself Donillo.  We have been over this alcohol issue on OB so many times since you have been here.  It is getting very old.   :icon_rolleyes:   If you want to drink alcohol, go ahead.  You will miss out on many blessings from God trying to being people to the saving knowledge of Jesus Christ.  Not to mention all the bad things that alcohol brings with it.  The choice is yours.

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You can either believe the word of God, or yourself Donillo. We have been over this alcohol issue on OB so many times since you have been here. It is getting very old. :icon_rolleyes: If you want to drink alcohol, go ahead. You will miss out on many blessings from God trying to being people to the saving knowledge of Jesus Christ. Not to mention all the bad things that alcohol brings with it. The choice is yours.


I don't drink. Maybe a sip of wine a couple times a year. Up till 10 years ago, I drank a lot. My kidneys failed and so that put an end to it. I received a transplant last year.


It bothers me when a church misrepresents what the bible says. Drinking's a sin, smoking's a sin, etc. It's a sin to some , not sin to others. For me, it's sin. But you cannot make laws like that for everyone. And yes we should consider the weak so as not to cause them to stumble.
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It bothers me when a church misrepresents what the bible says. Drinking's a sin, smoking's a sin, etc. It's a sin to some , not sin to others. For me, it's sin. But you cannot make laws like that for everyone. And yes we should consider the weak so as not to cause them to stumble.

 

It's not a man-made law like those of the Catholics.  It's the Word of God that shows that boozin' n smokin' are sins.  

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I don't drink. Maybe a sip of wine a couple times a year. Up till 10 years ago, I drank a lot. My kidneys failed and so that put an end to it. I received a transplant last year.


It bothers me when a church misrepresents what the bible says. Drinking's a sin, smoking's a sin, etc. It's a sin to some , not sin to others. For me, it's sin. But you cannot make laws like that for everyone. And yes we should consider the weak so as not to cause them to stumble.

Your kidneys failed and you had to have a transplant...from drinking? Isn't it a sin to abuse the body God blessed you with?

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So the guests at Cana were all teetotalers? I don't believe that. And, if it was only grape juice why would people go back for seconds or thirds??? They must have been really thirsty for non-alcoholic grape juice. No, I believe the wine they had at Cana was fermented and people were have a good time and ran out. Then Jesus made them good wine., so good that the guests (who were not teetotalers) complemented the host.

had the wine at Cana been alcoholic, then when Jesus made more of it, he would have disqualified Himself as the sinless sacrifzice He came to this Earth to be. Adding to man's drunkenness by giving more alcohol to man?

What Jesus do you serve? My Jesus came to save the world from sin, not to encourage sin.
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So you do not think that Our Lord cannot use whomever He wants whenever He wants?  Remember, He is omnipotent.
 

 

Again, different context.

 

God will NOT call an adulterer to be a Pastor.  The context is that the man is currently committing adultery and does not want to stop and or thinks it's ok.  There's a double curse on booze by God.  The Lord will not call a drunkard either in the same context as above.  Not my God anyway.

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That is a good point, Carl, but think with me on this...
 
God has offered the gift of salvation freely to all who will come to Him.  Christ did the work of redemption on the cross, and so no man needs to do anything to have this gift - except realize that one is a sinner and turn to Christ.
 
Now, God has promised that salvation is eternal, and that it is a gift. Gifts can only be received, not worked for (or they are no longer a gift).  That we can all agree on, no?
 
Okay....so, salvation is only through Christ.  And that necessarily includes the eternal aspect of it, because God has said that the life He gives is eternal, everlasting.


Fine!
 

If there were any way to lose that salvation, there would be conditions put on that salvation - and necessarily so, because it wouldn't be fair of God to give us something that we could lose if we did or didn't do something and didn't know about it. (hope that's clear...).  And God is completely just, so always fair.


It's true that these people are putting conditions on salvation: they are saying you have to accept it. But then you, HC, also believe that the gift of salvation is conditional on a person accepting it, unless you are a universalist or a calvinist. Moreover, these people--I forget their names--are not saying that a person's salvation can be lost through simply neglecting to do things, or unwittingly getting a ritual wrong or something like that. They are saying it's lost by a person choosing to reject the gift they once accepted. So is that a work? And if acceptance/rejection of a gift is a work, then how are we not doing a work when we first accept Christ?
 

Once salvation is given, there is no more free will to walk away from it (as in losing it...there is free will to backslide).  Why? Because salvation is from God, is eternal, and God will not go back on His word.
 
If a person could walk away by free will, and thus lose his/her salvation, that person would exhibit more power than the blood of Jesus and more power than the word of God who says salvation is eternal.

 

Fine, but those two paras only refute the idea that one can lose one's salvation. They don't explain why changing one's mind about something should be considered a work.
 

Thus, what they are teaching is a works-based salvation because keeping it is contingent upon the will of the person being saved rather than the One doing the saving.

 

But you and I also believe that salvation is contigent on the will of the person who accepts it. What you've just said there is exactly the same argument that calvinists lever against us and anyone who believes we have the free will to accept or reject the gift of salvation. They say that means the work of man is involved (accepting the gift) and God therefore doesn't get the whole glory.

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Again, different context.
 
God will NOT call an adulterer to be a Pastor.  The context is that the man is currently committing adultery and does not want to stop and or thinks it's ok.  There's a double curse on booze by God.  The Lord will not call a drunkard either in the same context as above.  Not my God anyway.

But we are not talking about adultery, are we.  There are different opinions on what is permitted by Scripture concerning alcohol consumption, unlike Its condemnation as declared in the sixth Commandment (of which there no credible dispute).  It is a completely different subject.

 

I am curious about your claim of a "double curse on booze".  Please explain.

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No, Carl - please note that I said "keeping it is contingent upon the will of the person being saved rather than the One doing the saving.

 

To claim that one can choose to walk away and become unsaved puts the power of eternity into the hands of the one walking away.  Why would it be considered a work?

 

Here is another explanation (by a Nazarene) about what choosing is...

However, if you mean "lose" through rejection, living in willful disobedience to God's known will, or breaking fellowship with Him, I'd answer, "Absolutely." God respects our free will too much to force His plan of salvation upon us. He invites us to receive this awesome gift by forgiving us of our past sins. Then He enters into relationship with us. Forgiveness and relationship characterize two necessary features of salvation. 

God can save us only if we maintain relationship with Him. Trusting Christ for salvation involves a seeking heart and faithfulness to that relationship. Vital union with Christ protects us against losing our salvation for any reason. 

 

 

Choose to walk away or choose to "maintain" = works because the emphasis is on what the person does.  

 

It sounds good for them to say God respects our free will too much to force His plan of salvation on us. I don't know that I would say He respects our free will too much. Maybe that is what it is, but I don't know....Anyway - No-one is forced to accept salvation. But once they do, it is forever.  Any teaching that a person can change that is works, because it adds what a person does or does not do to salvation.  Even when they word it as "exercising free will to choose to walk away."  Walking away is something that they do

 

"Trusting Christ for salvation involves a seeking heart and faithfulness to that relationship."  I don't see that anywhere in scripture, do you?

 

BTW - this quote is from Frank Moore, director of the Center for Faith and Culture Studies at Olivet Nazarene University.

 

~~~~

 

Good thing TLG doesn't care if his threads get hijacked.  :nuts:

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No, Carl - please note that I said "keeping it is contingent upon the will of the person being saved rather than the One doing the saving.


Ok, but you are giving this 'will of the person' as the reason for it being salvation by works. Therefore, you are saying that it is free will, i.e. making choices, that is the work. So what I'm saying is: if we say that making a choice is a work, don't we then have to say that about all choices, including the choice to accept the gift of salvation in the first place?
 

To claim that one can choose to walk away and become unsaved puts the power of eternity into the hands of the one walking away.  Why would it be considered a work?

 

Well that's what I'm asking, why would it? Wrong maybe, but not an example of a works salvation doctrine.
 

Here is another explanation (by a Nazarene) about what choosing is...
 
'However, if you mean "lose" through rejection, living in willful disobedience to God's known will, or breaking fellowship with Him, I'd answer, "Absolutely." God respects our free will too much to force His plan of salvation upon us. He invites us to receive this awesome gift by forgiving us of our past sins. Then He enters into relationship with us. Forgiveness and relationship characterize two necessary features of salvation. God can save us only if we maintain relationship with Him. Trusting Christ for salvation involves a seeking heart and faithfulness to that relationship. Vital union with Christ protects us against losing our salvation for any reason.'
 
Choose to walk away or choose to "maintain" = works because the emphasis is on what the person does.


If what they are saying is that you've got to do stuff well enough, e.g. do the rituals right and do them often enough, or not commit any more sins, then I'd agree that they are espousing works salvation. But what your previous website seemed to be saying was that a person had to make a very deliberate and conscious choice to reject salvation.
 

Even when they word it as "exercising free will to choose to walk away."  Walking away is something that they do.

 

If a decision to reject is a work, then why isn't a decision to accept?
 

"Trusting Christ for salvation involves a seeking heart and faithfulness to that relationship."  I don't see that anywhere in scripture, do you?

 

No I don't, HC. :-)

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Ok, but you are giving this 'will of the person' as the reason for it being salvation by works. Therefore, you are saying that it is free will, i.e. making choices, that is the work. So what I'm saying is: if we say that making a choice is a work, don't we then have to say that about all choices, including the choice to accept the gift of salvation in the first place?
 

 

Well that's what I'm asking, why would it? Wrong maybe, but not an example of a works salvation doctrine. I was actually asking that as a precursor to the next quote.  
 


If what they are saying is that you've got to do stuff well enough, e.g. do the rituals right and do them often enough, or not commit any more sins, then I'd agree that they are espousing works salvation. But what your previous website seemed to be saying was that a person had to make a very deliberate and conscious choice to reject salvation.  
 

 

If a decision to reject is a work, then why isn't a decision to accept?  They are being disingenuous with their choice of words. It is not just a decision to reject, but a walking away. One person explains it one way, another explains it another. But it all comes down to their idea of sanctification: sinless perfection.  Without it, one is lost.  Ergo - what one does is what keeps one saved.  Works.
 

 

No I don't, HC. :-) 

 I guess I'm not really getting my point across.  Sorry.  Sometimes I know what I want to say, and it just doesn't come out.  Anyone else out there want to give it a shot?

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But we are not talking about adultery, are we.  There are different opinions on what is permitted by Scripture concerning alcohol consumption, unlike Its condemnation as declared in the sixth Commandment (of which there no credible dispute).  It is a completely different subject.

 

I am curious about your claim of a "double curse on booze".  Please explain.

 

We're talking sin and adultery and drunkeness are sins.  The Bible shows that if one drinks booze, one sip even, one is a drunkard.  Opinions don't matter, just God's Word.

 

As for the double curse, see Isaiah 28:1-3 and Habakkuk 2:15-16

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 I guess I'm not really getting my point across.  Sorry.  Sometimes I know what I want to say, and it just doesn't come out.  Anyone else out there want to give it a shot?

 

Don't worry, HC. If we agree the doctrine is wrong, I suppose it isn't very important what category of 'wrong' we put it into. :-)

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We're talking sin and adultery and drunkeness are sins.  The Bible shows that if one drinks booze, one sip even, one is a drunkard.  Opinions don't matter, just God's Word.

 

As for the double curse, see Isaiah 28:1-3 and Habakkuk 2:15-16

Drunkenness as sin...not in dispute.  One sip...Scriptures does not name that as such.

 

Personal convictions are okay, but adding to Scripture is dangerous.

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Drunkenness as sin...not in dispute.  One sip...Scriptures does not name that as such.

 

Personal convictions are okay, but adding to Scripture is dangerous.

 

So now that you've read it, what are your thoughts on the double curse?

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The passage from Isaiah speaks of the drunkard and the passage from Habakkuk speaks of the person who gets another drunk in order to see their nakedness. I see nothing in either about a "double curse".

Perhaps you could explain what you mean by "double curse" in real-world terms to make your point more understandable.  
 

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The passage from Isaiah speaks of the drunkard and the passage from Habakkuk speaks of the person who gets another drunk in order to see their nakedness. I see nothing in either about a "double curse".

Perhaps you could explain what you mean by "double curse" in real-world terms to make your point more understandable.  
 

 

Wo or Woe means curse; it is a noun.

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For Christians who are struggling with the word "wine" in the Bible.  I hope this helps.  If not?  Oh, well.    

The Bible is very clear on this subject, I will give you the "short" answer. The word "wine", in our English Bible, does not always mean a fermented drink. The main Hebrew word for "wine" (since the Old Testament was written in Hebrew) is "yayin" (what is pressed out).  It uses this Hebrew word "yayin" which means "grape juice". Remember that this word is almost always translated as "wine" whether the grape juice is fermented or not. When we think "wine", we always think "fermented", but this is not the case. The word "wine" in the Bible is a generic term. The context (words before and after the word wine) indicates whether it was fermented or not. For some examples of this look at Isaiah 65:8. Grape juice is called "wine" when it is still in the grapes on the vine, where it is impossible to be fermented.

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People need to read before they make false statements The Member named "Candlelight claims I said the Jesus drank alcoholic wine when in fact I said the opposite. I would like an apology for that please Candlelight, Here is your quote "I am shocked when I here about a Christian talk about Jesus drinking alcoholic wine" that is a lie for I never did make any such claims. I do not drink any one who preaches the gospel is not to drink period. That is why John the Baptist refuse to drink wine. I am a Biblicist so I believe the bible word for word I do not believe there is any hidden meaning in part of the bible. So if it says wine it means wine period. Good wine is not a hidden code for grape juice.

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Darren, there is no Bible term for "grape juice" right? So what do you suppose they called the stuff that spilled out of the grapes right after they stomped them? I believe they called it "wine" right then didn't they? Would the pure and righteous Son of God give alcoholic wine, (which his word calls a "mocker") to people, when His Word also says it is a "woe unto him" to do so?

 

Habakuk 2:15Woe unto him that giveth his neighbour drink, that puttest thy bottle to him, and makest him drunken also, that thou mayest look on their nakedness!

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People need to read before they make false statements The Member named "Candlelight claims I said the Jesus drank alcoholic wine when in fact I said the opposite. I would like an apology for that please Candlelight, Here is your quote "I am shocked when I here about a Christian talk about Jesus drinking alcoholic wine" that is a lie for I never did make any such claims. I do not drink any one who preaches the gospel is not to drink period. That is why John the Baptist refuse to drink wine. I am a Biblicist so I believe the bible word for word I do not believe there is any hidden meaning in part of the bible. So if it says wine it means wine period. Good wine is not a hidden code for grape juice.


Not too slow to be offended, eh?  Ease up.  Perhaps she misunderstood. 

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I do not drink, not because I can not handle it but because I mad a vow with God not too. I used to drink wine in fact I used to make my own wine as a hobby. 1 Timothy 3:3 when referring to a Bishop same thing as a Pastor it says not giving to wine. But when it gives the qualifications of a deacon it says in 1 Timothy 3:8 not giving to much wine. So why is a Pastor not to have any wine and a deacon not to have much wine. Well that is hard to answer. I would prefer nobody drink it causes problems trust me I know. Did Jesus make real wine at the wedding yes I believe he did people are not going to save the best grape juice for last that is just silly. I believe the bible says what it means and means what it says and he made water into wine period not new wine not grape juice but wine, He is the catcher though Jesus did not drink it. Now at the last supper did he use wine will they only had a sip and if that was wine it was all Jesus ever had though if I preform the Lords supper I would only use grape juice.

 

Now the problem is if it is okay to have small amounts of wine how much is to much and when is it ok. You should never drink around children period. You should never drink when you are going to operate a vehicle or make any important decision. You should never drink in public it is a bad witness the sinner observing you doesn't know how much you are drinking. We must avoid the appearance of evil. So when and how much is a big question. The wine made today is about 12% alcohol the wine made in the bible days was 6% or less. So if they drank a glass of wine you would only have a half a glass. Now I said I used to drink until I decided to follow my calling and get ordained but I took a vow like John the Baptist did. I like the fact that I drank for one reason it gave me something to give up for GOD. I only drank at celebrations and before bed it helped me get to sleep easy.

 

Some day I will be a Pastor of a Church and what will I tell people if you tell some one it is okay to have a drink they will have two drinks. I know how people are. Alcohol has cause so much deviation in so man peoples lives I have seen it with my own eyes I have seen the carnage cause by drinking. I was a medic in the navy years ago and saw the mess and horrible injuries inflicted and caused by drinking. I was a cab driver and have seen people at there worst while drinking. What is the fine line you cross from having a drink to being a drunkard. The bible says drunkards can not enter the kingdom.

 

If you want my advice take it or leave it. You do not need any wine. You need to serve the Lord and help reach the lost and dying world out there. Take a vow like John the Baptist did an for sake drinking all together. Serve the LORD win souls for GOD. Help out a ministry. The time is short here don't waste you salvation on a glass of wine it is not that important what is important is peoples lives. Open you eyes a see what drinking has done in your community. GOD BLESS you.

You said Jesus made alcoholic wine, Darren.  I replied to your post that He did not.  Please re-read your post.  Thank you.

Edited by candlelight
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Or, perhaps he misunderstood.  He says that he does not believe wine is grape juice.  Well, according to John 2, Jesus  and His Disciples wanted wine at that wedding feast in Cana. 

John 2:1-3 And the third day there was a marriage in Cana of Galilee; and the mother of Jesus was there: And both Jesus was called, and his disciples, to the marriage. And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine.

They?  Who is "they" referring to?  Why, the subjects... Jesus and the Disciples.

What?  Jesus wanted alcohol?  Well, He and His Disciples wanted wine, as the passage clearly states.  Darren says all wine is alcoholic and also says Jesus did not drink wine. 

What did He want wine for if He was not going to drink it?
 

And Scripture does reveal that Jesus did in fact drink wine.

Mark 14:25 Verily I say unto you, I will drink no more of the fruit of the vine, until that day that I drink it new in the kingdom of God.

I will drink no more of the fruit of the vine until...

As candlelight so rightly pointed out, the fruit of the vine is clearly called wine in Isaiah 65:8

Isaiah 65:8 Thus saith the LORD, As the new wine is found in the cluster, and one saith, Destroy it not; for a blessing is in it: so will I do for my servants' sakes, that I may not destroy them all.

So, there is no doubt that Jesus did in fact drink wine.

But contrary to Darren's uneducated claim, not all wine was alcoholic in the Bible.  And the wine that Jesus drank was the pure blood of the grape; i.e., grape juice.

Edited by Standing Firm In Christ
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