Per The Request Of Candlelight

[Standing Firm In Christ]

True that, Dave.

I wonder why they dropped the tithe though since they instituted it?

And isn't it amazing how so many defend the catholic doctrine of tithing?

[candlelight]

I find it interesting that the Catholic church does not teach tithing. Especially since they are the ones who resurrected the doctrine in the late-6th century A.D., and subsequently were responsible for modifying it to the monetary tithe doctrine that is taught today.

Most people are not aware of the fact that the monetary tithe was a Roman Catholic doctrine. The Protestants did not begin teaching the monetary tithe until late-19th century A.D.. the Baptists were the last denomination to begin teaching the monetary tithe doctrine in the early-20th century A.D..

No, they don't SFIC.  I was raised in Vatican II, though.  I could ask my in-laws today, if it was mandatory in Vatican I.  I don't ever recall anyone in the RCC using the word "tithe" while I was growing up, though.  As you know, the RCC changes their rules all the time.  Today, an Atheist can go to heaven along with a sodomite according to Pope Francis.  With the death of Osama Bin Laden, my husband's uncle said his priest talked about Bin Laden being a child of God and in a better place.      When a relative of mine would die, the RCC would tell us that he/she is in a better place, too.  The rules change daily, as is a marking with all cults.  Wealthy Roman Catholics give a lot and those who don't have the money don't give as much, or not at all.  On the envelope,  they have places marked for giving.  They range from $6.00 - $50.00, with a place open to put in more money if you can.  The priest gets his grip on those who are wealthy and he counts on them to keep the church together.  And, there are a lot of wealthy Roman Catholics.  Although, we all know that much of that money goes to the Diocese of ________, and then it goes to the Vatican. 

I didn't know any of the above.  Thank you for the history of the tithe.  It is quite interesting.  I am going to keep that in mind and let my husband know about it, as well.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

You are welcome. I covered a lot of the history in my theological discuss on another forum.

I also have many articles on tithing on my wordpress blog (see signature)

Oh, and some sermons on tithing in the sermon section here on OB. I encourage you to check them out and if you have any questions, feel free to ask here.

[candlelight]

You are welcome. I covered a lot of the history in my theological discuss on another forum.

I also have many articles on tithing on my wordpress blog (see signature)

Oh, and some sermons on tithing in the sermon section here on OB. I encourage you to check them out and if you have any questions, feel free to ask here.

 

Thank you, brother.  I certainly will.  This was quite a learning experience.  With the RCC putting forth the tithe... I know I want to get as far away from that as I possibly can.  And, because they change everything all the time, I wouldn't be surprised if they brought back the tithe in the future.  As the saying goes, "history has a way of repeating itself."

[Standing Firm In Christ]

You can read much of the resurrection and modification of the tith directly from the Catholic Encyclopedia online. You can also download many books at archive,org (for free) on tithing dating back to the mid-1600's

[candlelight]

I am familiar with Catholic Encyclopedia.  A woman in my church told me about it years ago.  I haven't looked there in awhile, though.  Thanks, SFIC.  I am so glad that you told me it comes from the RCC.  I was really shocked when I read your post this morning.  I have such a burden for the lost souls in the RCC.  *sigh*

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Many mistakenly teach their congregations that the tithe and the firstfruits were one and the same.  Nehemiah 10 reveals that they are not.  Notice:

Nehemiah 10:37-38 And that we should bring the firstfruits of our dough, and our offerings, and the fruit of all manner of trees, of wine and of oil, unto the priests, to the chambers of the house of our God; and the tithes of our ground unto the Levites, that the same Levites might have the tithes in all the cities of our tillage. And the priest the son of Aaron shall be with the Levites, when the Levites take tithes: and the Levites shall bring up the tithe of the tithes unto the house of our God, to the chambers, into the treasure house.

Notice that the Israelites were to take the firstfruits directly to the Temple storehouse chambers (v. 37) but the tithe (v.38 ) they were to take to the Levites, who in turn were to take a tithe of that tithe to the Temple storehouse chambers.

Question:  If tithes and firstfruits were the same, how could they be taken to two different locations?

Also of interest:  Of the land tithe; i.e., the seed of the land and the fruit of the tree (the tithe was 10%) But of the animal tithe, it was not necessarily 10%.  Rather, it was every tenth animal to pass under the rod.  If you were a herder, and you caused your sheep to pass under a counting rod and there were nineteen, only one would be titheable... the tenth one to pass under the rod.  1 out of 19 is far from 10%.   In order for livestock tithe to be 10%, the flock or herd would have to be a number divisible by 10.

See Leviticus 27:30-33)

[candlelight]

WOW!  I have never even heard of this teaching before.  I am so thankful that I got saved out of my plain old country church in the city.  My pastor and now his son keep things very simple.  I have reached the point in my life, where simplicity is key for me.

[candlelight]

SFIC, my brother just got up.  He is on his way to breakfast.  I asked him if he ever heard the RCC preach on tithing while growing up in Vatican I.  He said, "no."  I told him the history of it and he was amazed.  Please pray for him.  His name is Larry.  He is such a great guy.  He and I have always had a special bond.  When we took in the homeless woman, I witnessed to him and thought he got saved.  He loves the IFB church.  He went to a service at the other IFB church one time, and really liked it.  He has been to some fellowships, too.  He just needs prayer for his drinking problem.  He has been though so much in his life.  I love him so much.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Lol, after 30+ years of study on the subject, I have learned that what I was taught about tithing as a child was totally foreign to Scripture.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

I will keep Larry in my prayers.

[candlelight]

Lol, after 30+ years of study on the subject, I have learned that what I was taught about tithing as a child was totally foreign to Scripture.

 LOL  And, I never learned anything on the subject.  I am still going to ask my in-laws today after service as my brother was raised partly in Vatican I, but my in-laws were raised in Vatican I.

[candlelight]

I will keep Larry in my prayers.

 

I just saw this.  Thank you so much, brother.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Candlelight, here is a page of a Southern Baptist theologian giving a historical account of tithing being introduced to the USA in 1873...

http://www.tithing-russkelly.com/id135.html

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Here are all the references to tithing in the Word of God... (Note: The account of Jacob at Beth-El is not in the list mainly because it was only a voluntary vow. Jacob was never said to have fulfilled that vow. )

Genesis 14:20 And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all.

The above tithe was a gift… Abram “gave” tithes, he did not “pay” tithes. There was no Biblical Law at that time that required Abram to tithe, otherwise Abram would have been paying them instead of giving them. The fact that Abram gave the tithe shows it was not something God required, but that it was voluntarily bestowed to Melchizedek.

Also, that tithe Abram gave was not of Abram’s own property… it was of property that belonged to Bera, king of Sodom. Abram didn’t even claim it as his own. He told Bera he had promised God he would not take any of the spoils unto himself lest he give occasion for the Sodomite king to say he had made Abram rich.

Genesis 14:22-24 And Abram said to the king of Sodom, I have lift up mine hand unto the LORD, the most high God, the possessor of heaven and earth, That I will not take from a thread even to a shoelatchet, and that I will not take any thing that is thine, lest thou shouldest say, I have made Abram rich: Save only that which the young men have eaten, and the portion of the men which went with me, Aner, Eshcol, and Mamre; let them take their portion.

Leviticus 27:30 And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD’S: it is holy unto the LORD.
Leviticus 27:31 And if a man will at all redeem ought of his tithes, he shall add thereto the fifth part thereof.
Leviticus 27:32 And concerning the tithe of the herd, or of the flock, even of whatsoever passeth under the rod, the tenth shall be holy unto the LORD.

The above three verses reveal the entire contents of God’s Holy tithe required under the Mosaic Law. He said “all the tithe of the land,” and then proceeded to define what He meant by “all.” “whether of the seed of the land” (i.e.; vegetables, spices and herbs) “or of the fruit of the tree (i.e.; apples, pomegranates, etc., oils) “and concerning the tithe of the herd, or of the flock (animals)”. There was no other tithe under the Mosaic/Levitical Law than the agricultural tithe.

The tithe defined in Leviticus 27:30-34 is one of three separate tithes that the Israelites were required by the Mosaic Law to observe. This is the first tithe, otherwise known as the “Levitical tithe. This tithe, was taken once a year to the Levites in their Levitical cities (see Numbers 35:1-7) This tithe also, was the only tithe that was said to be "holy unto the Lord." The other two tithes later mentioned were not identified as being "holy."

Numbers 18:24 But the tithes of the children of Israel, which they offer as an heave offering unto the LORD, I have given to the Levites to inherit: therefore I have said unto them, Among the children of Israel they shall have no inheritance.
Numbers 18:26 Thus speak unto the Levites, and say unto them, When ye take of the children of Israel the tithes which I have given you from them for your inheritance, then ye shall offer up an heave offering of it for the LORD, even a tenth part of the tithe.
Numbers 18:28 Thus ye also shall offer an heave offering unto the LORD of all your tithes, which ye receive of the children of Israel; and ye shall give thereof the LORD’S heave offering to Aaron the priest.

The above three verses are in reference to the Levitical tithe mentioned above and reveal the tithe was given to the Levite because he had no inheritance in the land. The Levite, in turn was to take a tithe of that tithe to the Aaronic Priesthood, who were also of the tribe of Levi. The Levitical tithe was to be observed every year for the first six years in a seven year cycle.

Deuteronomy 12:5-6 But unto the place which the LORD your God shall choose out of all your tribes to put his name there, even unto his habitation shall ye seek, and thither thou shalt come: And thither ye shall bring your burnt offerings, and your sacrifices, and your tithes, and heave offerings of your hand, and your vows, and your freewill offerings, and the firstlings of your herds and of your flocks:
Deuteronomy 12:11 Then there shall be a place which the LORD your God shall choose to cause his name to dwell there; thither shall ye bring all that I command you; your burnt offerings, and your sacrifices, your tithes, and the heave offering of your hand, and all your choice vows which ye vow unto the LORD:
Deuteronomy 12:17 Thou mayest not eat within thy gates the tithe of thy corn, or of thy wine, or of thy oil, or the firstlings of thy herds or of thy flock, nor any of thy vows which thou vowest, nor thy freewill offerings, or heave offering of thine hand:

The above three verses reveal the tithe was eaten. It was tithes of land produce… that which God had caused to grow from the ground, in trees, and given life to in livestock. We can also see that tithes were different from vows, freewill offerings, and firstfruits. We also see tht concerning the livestock, the firstlings (firstborn) were not tithed. They were different from the livestock tithe, which Leviticus 27 reveals was "the tenth animal to pass under the rod," not the first.

Deuteronomy 14:22-29 Thou shalt truly tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year. And thou shalt eat before the LORD thy God, in the place which he shall choose to place his name there, the tithe of thy corn, of thy wine, and of thine oil, and the firstlings of thy herds and of thy flocks; that thou mayest learn to fear the LORD thy God always. And if the way be too long for thee, so that thou art not able to carry it; or if the place be too far from thee, which the LORD thy God shall choose to set his name there, when the LORD thy God hath blessed thee: Then shalt thou turn it into money, and bind up the money in thine hand, and shalt go unto the place which the LORD thy God shall choose: And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household, And the Levite that is within thy gates; thou shalt not forsake him; for he hath no part nor inheritance with thee. At the end of three years thou shalt bring forth all the tithe of thine increase the same year, and shalt lay it up within thy gates: And the Levite, (because he hath no part nor inheritance with thee,) and the stranger, and the fatherless, and the widow, which are within thy gates, shall come, and shall eat and be satisfied; that the LORD thy God may bless thee in all the work of thine hand which thou doest.

Again, eight more verses to show the tithe was grown in the field and eaten. The second and third tithes are mentioned in the above verses. the first mentioned is known as “the Festival tithe,” or “Second Tithe”. That tithe was to be taken to the place that God chose and there EATEN with the tither’s family and Levites there. Like the Levitical tithe, the Festival tithe was also to be observed yearly. for the first six years in a seven year cycle.

The third tithe is known as the “Poor Tithe”. It was to be given to the less fortunate in the boundaries of Israel; i.e., the widows, the fatherless, the Levites living on one’s land, and the foreigners taking refuge in Israel. This tithe was to be observed once every three years in a seven year cycle. The Poor tithe, like the previous two tithes mentioned, was EATEN.

The seventh year in a seven year cycle, the land was to rest. There could be no planting, nor harvesting of crops. Thus, no land tithe that year.

Deuteronomy 26:12 When thou hast made an end of tithing all the tithes of thine increase the third year, which is the year of tithing, and hast given it unto the Levite, the stranger, the fatherless, and the widow, that they may eat within thy gates, and be filled;

That they may EAT… and be filled. Again, tithes were eaten.

2 Chronicles 31:5 And as soon as the commandment came abroad, the children of Israel brought in abundance the firstfruits of corn, wine, and oil, and honey, and of all the increase of the field; and the tithe of all things brought they in abundantly.
2 Chronicles 31:6 And concerning the children of Israel and Judah, that dwelt in the cities of Judah, they also brought in the tithe of oxen and sheep, and the tithe of holy things which were consecrated unto the LORD their God, and laid them by heaps.
2 Chronicles 31:12 And brought in the offerings and the tithes and the dedicated things faithfully: over which Cononiah the Levite was ruler, and Shimei his brother was the next.

Again, tithes were crops and livestock.


Nehemiah 10:37 And that we should bring the firstfruits of our dough, and our offerings, and the fruit of all manner of trees, of wine and of oil, unto the priests, to the chambers of the house of our God; and the tithes of our ground unto the Levites, that the same Levites might have the tithes in all the cities of our tillage.
Nehemiah 10:38 And the priest the son of Aaron shall be with the Levites, when the Levites take tithes: and the Levites shall bring up the tithe of the tithes unto the house of our God, to the chambers, into the treasure house.

Tithes were not firstfruits. Firstfruits were taken one place by the Israelites and the tithes were taken to another place by the Israelites. The Levites were responsible for bringing a tithe of the tithe to the House of the Lord. That's right, only 1% of Israel's crops went to the Temple storehouse chambers, not 10%. Also notice it was the Levites that were to tithe to the House of God (the Temple) and not the children of Israel. Only one tribe out of twelve was required to tithe to the Temple storehouse chambers, not all the people of God.

And notice what the tithes consisted of… that which grew from the ground and on the trees.

Nehemiah 12:44 And at that time were some appointed over the chambers for the treasures, for the offerings, for the firstfruits, and for the tithes, to gather into them out of the fields of the cities the portions of the law for the priests and Levites: for Judah rejoiced for the priests and for the Levites that waited.

Again, tithes and firstfruits are clearly seen as being two separate things in the above Scripture verse.

Nehemiah 13:5 And he had prepared for him a great chamber, where aforetime they laid the meat offerings, the frankincense, and the vessels, and the tithes of the corn, the new wine, and the oil, which was commanded to be given to the Levites, and the singers, and the porters; and the offerings of the priests.
Nehemiah 13:12 Then brought all Judah the tithe of the corn and the new wine and the oil unto the treasuries.

Eliashib the High Priest at that time had taken the tithes out of the storehouse and moved God’s enemy Tobiah the Ammonite into the Temple storehouse chambers. Note what the tithes were… corn (corn referred to any type of grain, not necessarily corn alone), new wine, and oil… that which is all food products; i.e., eaten or drank, or used in the preparation of foods.

Amos 4:4 Come to Bethel, and transgress; at Gilgal multiply transgression; and bring your sacrifices every morning, and your tithes after three years:

Bring your tithes… what tithes? Why, the tithes the Law required; i.e., agricultural produce and livestock.

Malachi 3:8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.
Malachi 3:9 Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.
Malachi 3:10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.

All the tithes; i.e., tithes of corn, flour, new wine, oils, spices, herbs… everything that was titheable. Why? That there may be meat in mine house. MEAT… food. Money is never referred to as meat in the Word of God.

And what were the blessings promised for obedience for bringing the crops into the Temple storehouse? Not wealth, not health, not longevity, not job security. None of these things. What God promised was rain from heaven, an abundance of crops, and that He would prevent the locust from eating the crops. Pastors deceitfully handle the Word of God when they teach that God requires a tithe of money or He will curse the one who doesn't tithe with ill-will toward them through their finances, health, wealth, etc..

Throughout the Old Testament Law, the tithes were consistently that which was eaten. There is no denying that fact. No mention of money being tithed whatsoever.

Matthew 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
Luke 11:42 But woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Here, our Lord commends the scribes and Pharisees for their obedience in tithing and tells them that it is a practice that they should observe and do. But notice what they were tithing… garden spices and herbs. Not money. Money was not titheable under the Mosaic Law.

Luke 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

This verse is part of a parable. Jesus was telling of a prideful Pharisee who boasted of going over and above what the Law required. The Pharisee had his reward. Notice the Pharisee was not speaking to God, but rather, within himself; i.e., to his own self. He was so lifted up in pride he had convinced himself that he had to do more than what the LORD required under the Law in order to be justified. And yet, instead of being justified, he was condemned.

Hebrews 7:4 Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils.

Here, we see what it was that Abram tithed. As stated above, these spoils were not Abram’s own silver and gold, (that he did not carry into battle with him, but left at home is certain) but the spoils of war… the property of Bera the king of Sodom, which he had promised God he would not take any of unto himself lest he give the king of Sodom occasion to boast about making Abram rich. (Gen 14:22-24)

Hebrews 7:5 And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:

This is speaking of the agricultural tithe. The author says the sons of Levi “have a commandment to take tithes” because the Temple was still standing. Levites were still receiving the agricultural tithe according to the Law. "Have" is a present-tense word. At the time, the Israelites were still receiving tithes because of the command they had been given by God that, at the present, they were still adhering to. The command was for the Levites to receive tithes of their brethren… the children of Israel. Nowhere does that verse say the Levites have a command to receive tithes of the Gentiles. Nor does it say pastors in other lands have commandments to receive tithes of Gentiles. It is addressing the children of Levi and the fact that they were commanded to receive tithes from their Israelite brethren.

Hebrews 7:6 But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises.
Received tithes of the spoils of war, not Abram’s silver and gold.
Hebrews 7:8 And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.

Again, the tithe that men that die receive is referring to the agricultural tithe. The Levites were still receiving that tithe. They would receive it for another four years and then Titus would invade Jerusalem and destroy the Temple, putting a stop to the collection of tithes.

Hebrews 7:9 is the last reference to tithes in the Word of God. It reads:

Hebrews 7:9 And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.

Not one of the verses on tithing throughout the Word of God support the doctrine that one is required to tithe one’s money. No instruction is given in the Word of God to tithe one’s money. The Levitical tithe (agricultural) tithe was resurrected in the Roman Catholic religious system in the year 567 A.D, modified to a monetary tithe several years later, and not adopted by any Protestant Church until 1873 A.D..

The Baptists were the last Church denomination to adopt the monetary tithe doctrine. This was in the twentieth century A.D..