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Per The Request Of Candlelight


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Every time something that was specifically given to the Jews was not to be carried over into the church, it was mentioned in the NT.   Jewish dietary laws and beasts clean and unclean, done away with.  Circumcision; done away with.  Sabbath; not even mentioned by Jesus himself when reciting the commandments; therefore done away with.  However, the only time Jesus mentions tithe he does so in praising the pharisees for at least one thing they were doing right to the extreme degree, though leaving off the weightier things.  Nothing is mentioned in the NT that I can find that REMOVES tithing as a requirement for the church as it was for the Jews, and I am very nervous about doing something that God rebukes as "robbing" from Him.  I would find it especially difficult to pray for my needs, especially financial, if I was stealing from the God I was asking. Since I give much more than 10%, the amount is a moot point for me.  For me it dictates only what amount of my giving I have personal liberty or control over.  For me a tithe is obedience, and alms which are NOT tithes are to be given to whomever and however as you are lead by the Spirit.

 

Bro. Garry

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Abram did not tithe because of a command of God.

Nor did he tithe his own possessions, assets or incomes.

 

It's irrelevant what he tithed. What's relevant is that he did tithe and that he did it before any law was given to do it. A precedent was set. 

 

And if you want to get technical, when we tithe our money we are really tithing a government possession. Who's superscription is on the dollar bill?

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Every time something that was specifically given to the Jews was not to be carried over into the church, it was mentioned in the NT.   Jewish dietary laws and beasts clean and unclean, done away with.  Circumcision; done away with.  Sabbath; not even mentioned by Jesus himself when reciting the commandments; therefore done away with.  However, the only time Jesus mentions tithe he does so in praising the pharisees for at least one thing they were doing right to the extreme degree, though leaving off the weightier things.  Nothing is mentioned in the NT that I can find that REMOVES tithing as a requirement for the church as it was for the Jews.  Since I give much more than 10%, the amount is a moot point for me.  For me it dictates only what amount of my giving I have personal liberty or control over.  For me a tithe is obedience, and alms which are NOT tithes are to be given to whomever and however as you are lead by the Spirit.

 

Bro. Garry

Brother, you have some good points there. Some argue that anything under the law that Jesus or Paul didn't change in the NT is still valid for today. I'm not convinced of that but you have a good point.

 

I'm somewhere in the middle of you and SFIC. Grace giving but giving a tenth is a good place to start.

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The issue is not giving. I am sure we all give. The issue is the unScriptural teaching that God requires a tithe of money. And the unScriptural doctrine that if one is not tithing one's monney, that one is robbing God.

Yes, if a man is not giving to his church than he is robbing God, IMO, unless he has a really good reason not to give like he is dirt poor or is on a limited income like many elderly folks are. I think God is gracious and makes exceptions. But if a man has it and doesn't give than he's a thief and disgraceful. I don't care how cheerful he is or not.

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Every time something that was specifically given to the Jews was not to be carried over into the church, it was mentioned in the NT.   Jewish dietary laws and beasts clean and unclean, done away with.  Circumcision; done away with.  Sabbath; not even mentioned by Jesus himself when reciting the commandments; therefore done away with.  However, the only time Jesus mentions tithe he does so in praising the pharisees for at least one thing they were doing right to the extreme degree, though leaving off the weightier things.  Nothing is mentioned in the NT that I can find that REMOVES tithing as a requirement for the church as it was for the Jews, and I am very nervous about doing something that God rebukes as "robbing" from Him.  I would find it especially difficult to pray for my needs, especially financial, if I was stealing from the God I was asking. Since I give much more than 10%, the amount is a moot point for me.  For me it dictates only what amount of my giving I have personal liberty or control over.  For me a tithe is obedience, and alms which are NOT tithes are to be given to whomever and however as you are lead by the Spirit.
 
Bro. Garry

so, you believe the command to tithe was carried forward? Then why are you not practicing it as God commanded? Taking it to the place He commanded?

In reality, the tithe was not carried forward. There is no mention of the tithe being one of the "necessary things" as decided in the Jerusalem Council in Acts 15. It was never taught to the early Church as something they were to practice. Rather, the last mention of any tithing command was still "according to the Law." Not money, but livestock and crops.
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so, you believe the command to tithe was carried forward? Then why are you not practicing it as God commanded? Taking it to the place He commanded?

In reality, the tithe was not carried forward. There is no mention of the tithe being one of the "necessary things" as decided in the Jerusalem Council in Acts 15. It was never taught to the early Church as something they were to practice. Rather, the last mention of any tithing command was still "according to the Law." Not money, but livestock and crops.

Brother, I think you are missing the point Garry is making. Maybe you are taking it a little too literal.

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Also consider, according to Malachi 3, tithing was an ordinance.  The Apostle Paul, in his letter to the saints at Ephesus, stated that the ordinances had been abolished by Jesus Christ.

Malachi 3:7-8 Even from the days of your fathers ye are gone away from mine ordinances, and have not kept them. Return unto me, and I will return unto you, saith the LORD of hosts. But ye said, Wherein shall we return? Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.

Ephesians 2:14-15 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

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Brother, you have some good points there. Some argue that anything under the law that Jesus or Paul didn't change in the NT is still valid for today. I'm not convinced of that but you have a good point.

 

I'm somewhere in the middle of you and SFIC. Grace giving but giving a tenth is a good place to start.

Thank you for starting this thread, SFIC.  Great responses and a civil conversation at that.

My husband and I do the tenth, but more at times, b/c the tenth is a baseline (as I said before) for us to give.  

:ot: I am also going to talk about giving, outside the church, as SFIC brought it up in the other thread.  I am just giving a part of my testimony and how it effects with giving to people, thus giving to the Lord.  

Both of us were raised in the RCC, although my husband's dad got saved when he was in the 8th grade.  His mother got saved when he was one years old.  They took all the boys out of parochial school, and put them in public high school after his dad's salvation.  His parents were always big givers in the RCC.  The RCC doesn't teach tithing at all.  People who have more money give, and those who can't don't.  They took their giving over to the Brethren church, where they belonged to for awhile until coming to the IFB church.  My family was the same way with giving.  Although, not the BIG givers like my husband's family was in the RCC.  They were trained to give as children b/c of the blessings that God will bestow on a person or family if you do give.  My family gave to charities as does my husband's family.  I was raised that it is a joy to give and as the old saying goes "It is better to give than to receive."  I enjoy giving to two reputable charities, but make sure to get the gospel out while doing so.

My entire life I have been blessed by my giving.  So has my husband.  One of the things I did was take a homeless family, find them government housing and care for their kids.  This when I first started teaching in the inner city when I married my first husband.  I continued doing this as a single mom.  I get the greatest joy helping those in need.  I have always had a burden for the homeless.  God also provided us a ministry with the homeless, in the other IFB church we went to for four years.  Prior to that, we took in a single mom, who got saved, while going to our church.  She passed on several years ago of Bone Cancer.  The last homeless woman we took in was also a Christian.  The only requirement was that she held to the KJV which she did.  We read and studied the Bible together.  Joe was upset that she smoked and drank, so I can't take in any other homeless women again, unless they are family.  He was also very upset b/c she lied her way into our home.  I could see how desperate she was, so I forgave her of that.  Anyway, he gave her a month to leave as he was so exhausted with her being with us for almost eight months.  I tried very hard to help her with these issues, just as I did the ladies our ministry, at the other IFB church.   Sadly, she passed on of Pancreatic Cancer a few months later, when she headed back home to Maryland.  I can't express the joy in my heart I had helping these women.  My husband says I am just like his mother.  She cared for the homeless while he was growing up, as well.    

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Oh please... You're going to say that those 4 things are the only foundation given for establishment of the church?  Abstaining from things pertaining to Idols (a given I would think), abstaining from fornication (another given), from things strangled (?) oookay... and from blood?  Well I guess I am a heretic then, because if you ask me how I like my steak cooked I am going to tell you to "wave it in the sunshine and call it done" (maybe a little exaggeration but I do like it juicy).  I read 66 books in the bible and the only or most important things I really needed to glean from that as a solid foundation for a church, are those 4 things in the book of Acts.  

 

By the way, as a side note, I have found that it is not really a good idea to try to set church doctrine, and ordinances from the book of Acts.  The apostles were pretty much clueless and new about it all themselves.  If your church doctrine is based on the book of Acts, you have all sorts of issues.  You are even living a communal living arrangement selling all you own and having all things common.  I have a socialist family member who tries to use that as proof that God's preferred government is socialism and I am a heretic if I don't follow it.

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I find it interesting that the Catholic church does not teach tithing. Especially since they are the ones who resurrected the doctrine in the late-6th century A.D., and subsequently were responsible for modifying it to the monetary tithe doctrine that is taught today.

Most people are not aware of the fact that the monetary tithe was a Roman Catholic doctrine. The Protestants did not begin teaching the monetary tithe until late-19th century A.D.. the Baptists were the last denomination to begin teaching the monetary tithe doctrine in the early-20th century A.D..

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Oh please... You're going to say that those 4 things are the only foundation given for establishment of the church?  Abstaining from things pertaining to Idols (a given I would think), abstaining from fornication (another given), from things strangled (?) oookay... and from blood?  Well I guess I am a heretic then, because if you ask me how I like my steak cooked I am going to tell you to "wave it in the sunshine and call it done" (maybe a little exaggeration but I do like it juicy).  I read 66 books in the bible and the only or most important things I really needed to glean from that as a solid foundation for a church, are those 4 things in the book of Acts.  
 
By the way, as a side note, I have found that it is not really a good idea to try to set church doctrine, and ordinances from the book of Acts.  The apostles were pretty much clueless and new about it all themselves.  If your church doctrine is based on the book of Acts, you have all sorts of issues.  You are even living a communal living arrangement selling all you own and having all things common.  I have a socialist family member who tries to use that as proof that God's preferred government is socialism and I am a heretic if I don't follow it.

the Bible tells us to abstain from those things. Your argument is with God on that issue, not me.

It is not just Acts, but also Galatians, Romans, Colossians, Ephesians, well,... The entirety of the New Testament epistles. They warn us not to go into the house of the Law too. Paul told the Romans that to go to the Law while married to Christ is spiritual adultery.
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