Why Reject Truth When It Is Given?

[swathdiver]

Isn't the IFB also a denomination and an institution with affiliated churches, colleges, and missionary organizations? And The doctrines, do they not have roots in the reformation and Darbyism as well?

 

INDEPENDENT Baptists are not a denomination.  Yes, some may align themselves with like churches, colleges and missionary organizations, so what?

 

Their doctrines come from the Bible, not councils, para church organizations, corporate headquarters or men like Darby, Warren or the Pope.

 

A study of the Scriptures by a saved person will find that Independent, Fundamental, Baptists, as they're known today and generally speaking, follow the bible more closely in all matters of faith and practice than any other group of Christians.

 

When one gets saved and reads the Bible, one naturally becomes an Independent, Fundamental, Soul-Winning Baptist!  

[AVBibleBeliever]

INDEPENDENT Baptists are not a denomination.  Yes, some may align themselves with like churches, colleges and missionary organizations, so what?

 

Their doctrines come from the Bible, not councils, para church organizations, corporate headquarters or men like Darby, Warren or the Pope.

 

A study of the Scriptures by a saved person will find that Independent, Fundamental, Baptists, as they're known today and generally speaking, follow the bible more closely in all matters of faith and practice than any other group of Christians.

 

When one gets saved and reads the Bible, one naturally becomes an Independent, Fundamental, Soul-Winning Baptist!  

I do not find your statement to be honestly true, from my observations of many of you here you tend to all align to David Cloud and his teaching more than independent study of doctrines you have done yourselves.

[candlelight]

I suggest you study history. Baptists were not part of the reformation

 

I think it is time to introduce Donillo to the book, "Trail of Blood" and other books that clearly show that Baptists were not part of the Reformation.  He should also read the book "America in Crimson Red" by Dr. James Beller.  Just a couple of suggestions to get him started on this history of the Baptists.

And, Donillo as stated, IFB's are not a denomination.  Our beliefs are taken directly from the KJV Bible.  Our doctrine holds to the early church as started in the Books of Acts, where 3,000 souls were saved and added to the church.  We did not start at Pentacost, either.  That was when the early church was empowered.  

[AVBibleBeliever]

I think it is time to introduce Donillo to the book, "Trail of Blood" and other books that clearly show that Baptists were not part of the Reformation. 

Answer me this if the baptist church is not of the reformation why do many Independents as well as Bible baptist, faith baptist and Southern Baptist use, hang and fly a reformation church flag in their churches?

 

That is right the white flag with a blue square in the corner with a red cross is a reformation church flag found in Methodist, Lutheran and Wesleyan churches as well.  The Pentecostals use it too. 

 

Why line up with them by using the same flag?

 

I made my own flag and gave some away to some Independent Bible Believer Baptist churches.

[ThePilgrim]

Answer me this if the baptist church is not of the reformation why do many Independents as well as Bible baptist, faith baptist and Southern Baptist use, hang and fly a reformation church flag in their churches?

 

That is right the white flag with a blue square in the corner with a red cross is a reformation church flag found in Methodist, Lutheran and Wesleyan churches as well.  The Pentecostals use it too. 

 

Why line up with them by using the same flag?

 

I made my own flag and gave some away to some Independent Bible Believer Baptist churches.

Well, in my opinion there should be no flags of any sort flown in a Christian church.  Christians are to be in the world not of it. 

 

God bless,

Larry

[AVBibleBeliever]

 Ps 60:4 Thou hast given a banner to them that fear thee, that it may be displayed because of the truth. Selah. Banner here is a flag.
 Song 2:4 He brought me to the banqueting house, and his banner over me [was] love.  Opps another flag
 Isa 13:2 Lift ye up a banner upon the high mountain, exalt the voice unto them, shake the hand, that they may go into the gates of the nobles.  Wow, a flag again.

 

Oh and look below a standard is a flag as well

 

 Nu 1:52 And the children of Israel shall pitch their tents, every man by his own camp, and every man by his own standard, throughout their hosts.
 Nu 2:2 Every man of the children of Israel shall pitch by his own standard, with the ensign of their father's house: far off about the tabernacle of the congregation shall they pitch.
 Isa 49:22 Thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I will lift up mine hand to the Gentiles, and set up my standard to the people: and they shall bring thy sons in [their] arms, and thy daughters shall be carried upon [their] shoulders.
 Isa 62:10 ¶ Go through, go through the gates; prepare ye the way of the people; cast up, cast up the highway; gather out the stones; lift up a standard for the people.
 Jer 50:2 Declare ye among the nations, and publish, and set up a standard; publish, [and] conceal not: say, Babylon is taken, Bel is confounded, Merodach is broken in pieces; her idols are confounded, her images are broken in pieces.
 Jer 51:12 Set up the standard upon the walls of Babylon, make the watch strong, set up the watchmen, prepare the ambushes: for the LORD hath both devised and done that which he spake against the inhabitants of Babylon.
 Jer 51:27 Set ye up a standard in the land, blow the trumpet among the nations, prepare the nations against her, call together against her the kingdoms of Ararat, Minni, and Ashchenaz; appoint a captain against her; cause the horses to come up as the rough caterpillers.

 

I wonder, Larry, do you think these flags are worldly?

 

I don't wish to be hard on you Larry, but sometimes you come across as if you are bit more knowledgeable and a bit more holier than the rest of us in you words of foolishness.  I call your words that (not you personally) because sometimes you fail to see the what the word of God says about things.  Maybe and Perhaps you are speaking too fast without study on the issue?  Is it an attempt to look smarter or something?  I would not want to judge it as pride or smuggish.

 

There is nothing wrong with a flag if you truly have a holy standard (God's example to live by) to live by, lift up the standard (a flag) of the Lord and let his banner (a flag) wave.

 

[candlelight]

Answer me this if the baptist church is not of the reformation why do many Independents as well as Bible baptist, faith baptist and Southern Baptist use, hang and fly a reformation church flag in their churches?

 

That is right the white flag with a blue square in the corner with a red cross is a reformation church flag found in Methodist, Lutheran and Wesleyan churches as well.  The Pentecostals use it too. 

 

Why line up with them by using the same flag?

 

I made my own flag and gave some away to some Independent Bible Believer Baptist churches.

 

I don't know, AVBB; however, that is good to know.  We don't have a flag flying in my church, as we meet in a civic center.  Can you post a picture of the flag that you made and gave away to some IFB churches?  And, how does it differ from the flag flown in Protestant churches?  

 

[AVBibleBeliever]

I don't know, AVBB; however, that is good to know.  We don't have a flag flying in my church, as we meet in a civic center.  Can you post a picture of the flag that you made and gave away to some IFB churches?  And, how does it differ from the flag flown in Protestant churches?  

 

I don't know if I have any in this laptop or if they are in the desktop in the field.  I never said I gave them to IFB churches I said Independent Bible Believer Baptist Churches (IBBB). 

 

The whole upper half is white representing His Universal holiness the Lower half is royal blue for his royalty in this earth as king of Israel over the whole world. and a Big Red cross that over laps both fields of color representing the connecting presence of Christ between Heaven (the third) and Earth.

[ThePilgrim]

I don't know, AVBB; however, that is good to know.  We don't have a flag flying in my church, as we meet in a civic center.  Can you post a picture of the flag that you made and gave away to some IFB churches?  And, how does it differ from the flag flown in Protestant churches?  

 

 

 Ps 60:4 Thou hast given a banner to them that fear thee, that it may be displayed because of the truth. Selah. Banner here is a flag.
 Song 2:4 He brought me to the banqueting house, and his banner over me [was] love.  Opps another flag
 Isa 13:2 Lift ye up a banner upon the high mountain, exalt the voice unto them, shake the hand, that they may go into the gates of the nobles.  Wow, a flag again.

 

Oh and look below a standard is a flag as well

 

 Nu 1:52 And the children of Israel shall pitch their tents, every man by his own camp, and every man by his own standard, throughout their hosts.
 Nu 2:2 Every man of the children of Israel shall pitch by his own standard, with the ensign of their father's house: far off about the tabernacle of the congregation shall they pitch.
 Isa 49:22 Thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I will lift up mine hand to the Gentiles, and set up my standard to the people: and they shall bring thy sons in [their] arms, and thy daughters shall be carried upon [their] shoulders.
 Isa 62:10 ¶ Go through, go through the gates; prepare ye the way of the people; cast up, cast up the highway; gather out the stones; lift up a standard for the people.
 Jer 50:2 Declare ye among the nations, and publish, and set up a standard; publish, [and] conceal not: say, Babylon is taken, Bel is confounded, Merodach is broken in pieces; her idols are confounded, her images are broken in pieces.
 Jer 51:12 Set up the standard upon the walls of Babylon, make the watch strong, set up the watchmen, prepare the ambushes: for the LORD hath both devised and done that which he spake against the inhabitants of Babylon.
 Jer 51:27 Set ye up a standard in the land, blow the trumpet among the nations, prepare the nations against her, call together against her the kingdoms of Ararat, Minni, and Ashchenaz; appoint a captain against her; cause the horses to come up as the rough caterpillers.

 

I wonder, Larry, do you think these flags are worldly?

 

I don't wish to be hard on you Larry, but sometimes you come across as if you are bit more knowledgeable and a bit more holier than the rest of us in you words of foolishness.  I call your words that (not you personally) because sometimes you fail to see the what the word of God says about things.  Maybe and Perhaps you are speaking too fast without study on the issue?  Is it an attempt to look smarter or something?  I would not want to judge it as pride or smuggish.

 

There is nothing wrong with a flag if you truly have a holy standard (God's example to live by) to live by, lift up the standard (a flag) of the Lord and let his banner (a flag) wave.

 

Be as hard as you like. 

I don't know what is having a flag has to do with a Christian or a U.S. flag being in a Church.  I wonder if the church in the Roman empire displayed the Roman Eagle or whatever?

 

God bless,

Larry

[John81]

In early America Baptists didn't have the national flag in their church because of their strong church/state separation stance. Of course, prior to the American "civil war", the national flag was only flown over national buildings and installations. It was ones State flag that flew most within each particular State.

 

Our church has a Christian flag and an American flag inside.

[ThePilgrim]

In early America Baptists didn't have the national flag in their church because of their strong church/state separation stance. Of course, prior to the American "civil war", the national flag was only flown over national buildings and installations. It was ones State flag that flew most within each particular State.

 

Our church has a Christian flag and an American flag inside.

Yes, it is in my church too and I keep my mouth shut about it because some have strong feelings about it.  No sense causing a ruckus since having a flag is not going to cause anyone to lose their salvation.

 

God bless,

Larry

[John81]

Yes, flag there or not there has nothing to do with salvation and I would be at our home church whether there was a flag there or not because I'm there to hear the Word preached, not look around at the décor.

[AVBibleBeliever]

.Flags may or may not matter and they do have their place but if you have one that associates you with the wrong system then you don't want it.

 

It is like having a confederate flag.  If you own and fly it you are automatically associated with racist, bigot and redneck but the roots of that flag had nothing to do with what people associate it with today.

 

The roots of the Christian flag is that it is the reformed protestant church it was their standard of protesting the Roman Catholic church.  The bad thing about these protestants is that they brought a lot of the Nicolaitan teachings out with them, and "Paying the Tithe and Offering" was one of them but that is for another time.

 

This does matter if error and murder are associated with that flag as it was during the so called reformation why would we want it in our church? 

 

The flag you wave is the standard you claim.  John Calvin carried that flag as he murdered Bible believing Christians for so called heresy because they did not agree with his ideas.  and that is just another part of history that gets changed over the years and forgotten.

 

We should not fear men but stand up for truth.  When good men fail to stand for truth the truth is lost and good men fail to exist.

[John81]

The American flag, British flag and many other flags once flew over nations which had legally sanctioned slavery but that doesn't mean that's what they represent any more than does the Confederate flag.

 

Many national flags today fly over nations which have legally sanctioned murder of unborn babies, but that doesn't mean the flag represents that.

 

National flags are representations of, symbols for national identification. How others perceive them is dependent upon the persons views and perspective; whether formed on their own, from propaganda, or other means.

 

Nobody waves flags in our church. No one looks at the American flag and thinks of Indian wars, slavery or abortion; just as no one is looking at the Christian flag and thinking of Calvin.

 

Most America Christians are oblivious to history, even contemporary history. They see a Christian flag and think, "hmm, a Christian flag". They see the American flag and think, "hmm, the American flag". That's if they even notice the flags or have a thought about them at all.

 

If one were putting flags in a church as the center of attention, preaching some form of "patriotic American Christianity" then that would be a problem.

 

Flags in the background, often barely noticed, are not a problem.

[candlelight]

Thank you, John.  It isn't like we are worshiping these flags.

This is a ridiculous thing to talk about.  I asked AVBB about his flag out of curiosity.  It doesn't mean that I agree with him on this view.

Donillo, since AVBB disrupted what I was saying to you, I would suggest reading "Fox's Book of Martyrs" on the early church.  And "yes" IFB churches hold to the doctrine of the early church.  As I said, the early church was started in the Book of Acts where 3,000 souls were saved and added to the church.  Pentacost was when the church was empowered.  Anabaptists were the early Christians.  The Romans and the RCC persecuted the Anabaptists.  The RCC also gave them the name Anabaptists b/c they didn't believe in infant Baptism.  IFB's hold to the Biblical views of the Bible not man made traditions.