Members Standing Firm In Christ Posted March 13, 2014 Members Share Posted March 13, 2014 THE EPITOME OF EASY BELIEVISM Ian Murray, in Revivals and Revivalism, (©1994) says that the Presbyterian Evangelist Charles Finney (1792-1875) “"believed that all that was needed for conversion was a resolution signified by standing, kneeling, or coming forward, and because the Holy Spirit always acts when a sinner acts, the public resolution could be treated as ‘identical with the miraculous inward change of sudden conversion’.” In the above quote, Ian Murray labeled CG Finney, one who taught Salvation could be achieved through a resolution signified by standing, kneeling, or coming forward." Yet, in his book, "Guide to the Saviour" (©1848) Charles Grandison Finney clearly states that the only way to be saved is by faith in the Son of God. "The great and fundamental sin, which is at the foundation of all other sin, is unbelief. The first thing is to give up that--to believe the Word of God. There is no breaking off from one sin without this." "Whatsoever is not of faith is sin." "Without faith it is impossible to please God." Thus we see that the backslider and convicted sinner, when agonizing to overcome sin, will almost always betake themselves to works of law to obtain faith. They will fast, and pray, and read, and struggle, and outwardly reform, and thus endeavor to obtain grace. Now all this is in vain and wrong. Do you ask, shall we not fast, and pray, and read, and struggle? Shall we do nothing--but sit down in Antinomian security and inaction? I answer. You must do all that God commands you to do: but begin where He tells you to begin, and do it in the manner in which He commands you to do it; that is, in the essence of that faith that works by Love. Purify your hearts by faith. Believe in the Son of God. And say not in your heart, "Who shall ascend into heaven, that is, to bring Christ down from above; or who shall descend into the deep, that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead. But what saith it? The Word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth and in thy heart, that is, the Word of faith which we preach." Now these facts show that even under the Gospel, many professors of religion, while they reject the Jewish notion of justification by works of Law, have, after all, adopted a ruinous substitute for it, and suppose that, in some way they are to obtain grace by their works." There were things that Finney taught and believed that I disagree with, but I have to say he undoubtedly taught that one must believe on the Lord Jesus Christ in order to attain Salvation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ASongOfDegrees Posted March 13, 2014 Members Share Posted March 13, 2014 In the above quote, Ian Murray labeled CG Finney, one who taught Salvation could be achieved through a resolution signified by standing, kneeling, or coming forward." Yet, in his book, "Guide to the Saviour" (©1848) Charles Grandison Finney clearly states that the only way to be saved is by faith in the Son of God. There were things that Finney taught and believed that I disagree with, but I have to say he undoubtedly taught that one must believe on the Lord Jesus Christ in order to attain Salvation. Anyone familiar with Finney's teachings knows he was far from "easy believism" (a term I abhor). The man preached hard on repentance. His writings are practically viewed as scripture within Wesleyan and Holiness circles (ironic, since he was Presbyterian). And they are far from being "easy believism". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Alimantado Posted March 13, 2014 Members Share Posted March 13, 2014 Well Ian Murray appears be providing a quote there: 'identical with the miraculous inward change of sudden conversion'. If that is a quote, there is a source, and if that quote is in context, then maybe Murray isn't lying. Perhaps Finney explained himself poorly on that occasion and Murray hasn't looked at any of Finney's other writings. Maybe Finney ended up thinking that, or began thinking that. Maybe he was double-minded about it. Lots of explanations that might make Murray wrong about Finney, but not lying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Ukulelemike Posted March 13, 2014 Moderators Share Posted March 13, 2014 Well Ian Murray appears be providing a quote there: 'identical with the miraculous inward change of sudden conversion'. If that is a quote, there is a source, and if that quote is in context, then maybe Murray isn't lying. Perhaps Finney explained himself poorly on that occasion and Murray hasn't looked at any of Finney's other writings. Maybe Finney ended up thinking that, or began thinking that. Maybe he was double-minded about it. Lots of explanations that might make Murray wrong about Finney, but not lying. If he believed this about Finney with only one small comment he came across, and made his entire stand based on the one, without investigating the man at least a bit more, then his error is all the more egregious. Perhaps not a lie, but an untruth based on ignorance. Its best to seek multiple quotes, in context, to find what a person believes. That's why, even when dealing with such things as Islam, I am not wuick to accept a single quote and the end-all, be-all of a doctrine of theirs, because knowing the Bible, almost anything can be proven by taking a verse out of its context. Judas hung himself. We know Judas was a disciple of Christ-thus, it must be a good thing for a believer to kill himself, right? Obviously not, but without context, one might make that jump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Alimantado Posted March 13, 2014 Members Share Posted March 13, 2014 Good points, Uke! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members heartstrings Posted March 13, 2014 Members Share Posted March 13, 2014 What would he gain? Money, power, envy and malice come to mind. I had a pastor who told me that he believed it was OK to lie to protect your family. He later proved he had no compunctions about lying in general. And any person who would willfully preach/teach for filthy lucre's sake, would lie to you in a heartbeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Covenanter Posted March 13, 2014 Members Share Posted March 13, 2014 Iain Murray has been a respected evangelical leader & author for ALL of my Christian life (over 50 years.) I heard him at a "Puritan Conference" at Westminster Chapel, where Lloyd-Jones was Pastor, & subsequently met him when her preached at the church I attended in Southampton. In no way can he be deliberately lying. Does he give a reference to his Finney quote? I haven't read the book, but I've just looked up & read Amazon's reviews - 13 x 5* & 2 x 4* - all very positive. I have read other books by Murray & perhaps detect a tendency to present the issues very clearly, when perhaps, writers with other slants might present them differently. The obvious concern is the modern "decisionist" evangelism that equates a step to the "altar rail" as a step of faith, & thus the beginning of salvation - a salvation that cannot be lost, but may in fact be a recognition of guilt & need that will fade when the emotion of the occasion fades, but will yet be understood as conversion both by the unwitting "convert" & by the church to which he is referred. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Standing Firm In Christ Posted March 13, 2014 Author Members Share Posted March 13, 2014 It is on page 250 in Murray's book Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members No Nicolaitans Posted March 14, 2014 Members Share Posted March 14, 2014 About a year ago, I was doing some basic research on Finney, and I came across several articles that were slamming Finney for the detriment he caused to Christianity. I was somewhat surprised, because I had always heard good things about Finney. Several of the articles claimed that Finney said certain things in his "Systematic Theology", so having never read anything by Finney, I decided to look the references up...and couldn't find them. I did find a couple of the references, but they were single sentences taken out of context from what surrounded them. SO...I did some basic research on the people writing the articles slamming Finney. They all had one thing in common; they were all Reformed. Their biggest gripe seemed to be that Finney started what is referred to today as an "altar call"; however, he called it an "anxious bench". I did read some of Finney's Systematic Theology, but got bored with it. Yes, some of his writings in his Systematic Theology did seem concerned with social issues, but that was only part of what I read. I didn't read anything that made me think he was wrong on salvation or how to be saved. Granted, I didn't read it all, so I may have missed something. However, from what I saw...the attacks against him weren't justified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Standing Firm In Christ Posted March 14, 2014 Author Members Share Posted March 14, 2014 In the 1851 Edition of his "Systematic Theology" Finney only uses the word KNEEL one time. And that is in a Scripture verse in the Psalms. I have checked several other writings of Finney, and the allegations levied against him are thus far unfounded. I think the reformed want to tear down his theology in order to make their own theology seem good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members candlelight Posted March 14, 2014 Members Share Posted March 14, 2014 In the 1851 Edition of his "Systematic Theology" Finney only uses the word KNEEL one time. And that is in a Scripture verse in the Psalms. I have checked several other writings of Finney, and the allegations levied against him are thus far unfounded.I think the reformed want to tear down his theology in order to make their own theology seem good. I think that is a very good observation, SFIC. I have always heard good things about Charles Finney. It seems that a lot of men of God are at war with one another and it surely isn't edifying. In fact, this confusion seems to turn people away from Biblical Christianity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bro K Posted March 14, 2014 Members Share Posted March 14, 2014 What Would A Preacher Have To Gain By Lying? The Wrath of God!!! God will not be mocked; whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members John81 Posted March 15, 2014 Members Share Posted March 15, 2014 Unfortunately it's not uncommon for some pastors to put forth the name of some preacher/evangelist from the past and try to make them over in their image or to taint their image. This is a trick the world does often (look at how politicians try to evoke the name of famous past politicians either to claim they are like them or to tarnish them or rework them for political gain) and this is something Christians should have no part in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AVBibleBeliever Posted March 16, 2014 Members Share Posted March 16, 2014 I stopped listening and reading a lot of mens books years ago. Instead I spend my time reading and studying my Bible and posting with you guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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