Repent Of The Mark?

[DaveW]

Could link the church and the Holy Spirit for me please?

"Without the church there is no abiding and sealing Holy Spirit."

I'm not sure where to find Biblical support for that statement.

[ASongOfDegrees]

Could link the church and the Holy Spirit for me please?

"Without the church there is no abiding and sealing Holy Spirit."

I'm not sure where to find Biblical support for that statement.

John 14. The apostles, whom I assume are saved at that time, did not have the abiding Comforter and would not receive it until after Christ's ascension into heaven. This was a new ministry of God not found in the OT and only promised to the church based on Christ's intercessory prayer in John 17. This is why the apostle Judas Iscariot went to hell after he killed himself. He missed out on this promise. 

 

When the church is removed prior to the Great Tribulation you no longer have the presence of the Holy Ghost in this world. At least not to the extent it is now. Our union with Christ ("flesh of his flesh, bone of his bone") is determent on our being united with and sealed in him via the baptism of the Holy Ghost. There is no more baptism into body of Christ (i.e. the church) during the Great Tribulation. If there is you would have a split church. One already raptured and completed in heaven and one on earth going through great tribulation.

[Ukulelemike]

The Holy Ghost did not appear to correlate with the arrival of church, He appeared to correlate with the resurrection and soon-to-come departure of Jesus Christ. Jesus ministry ended, the Comforter came to commence His work. Nowhere in scripture does it say His work will end while there are still lost on the earth. Otherwise there would be no need for the 144,000 preachers, no need for the angel to preach the everlasting gospel, because the gospel culminates in salvation, by sealing of the Spirit.

 

To suggest that there can be no secure salvation is to say that during the time of the end, the blood of Christ will actually lose it efficacy to save. All Jesus did in His death and resurrection will not apply to any during the tribulation time.

 

So, show me in scripture where, exactly, it says the Spirit of God must be removed prior to the Tribulation time. Show me where the tribulation and the wrath are one and the same, (particularly since the Bible clearly shows the beginning of the wrath as being near the end of the time. The wrath may be a part of the tribulation, but the tribulation does not appear to be synonymous with the wrath.) Show me where the church is promised to be gone during the tribulation time. Yes, we will be gone during the wrath, but nowhere are we guaranteed to be removed prior to the start of tribulation.

[DaveW]

John 14. The apostles, whom I assume are saved at that time, did not have the abiding Comforter and would not receive it until after Christ's ascension into heaven. This was a new ministry of God not found in the OT and only promised to the church based on Christ's intercessory prayer in John 17. This is why the apostle Judas Iscariot went to hell after he killed himself. He missed out on this promise.

When the church is removed prior to the Great Tribulation you no longer have the presence of the Holy Ghost in this world. At least not to the extent it is now. Our union with Christ ("flesh of his flesh, bone of his bone") is determent on our being united with and sealed in him via the baptism of the Holy Ghost. There is no more baptism into body of Christ (i.e. the church) during the Great Tribulation. If there is you would have a split church. One already raptured and completed in heaven and one on earth going through great tribulation.

Ah ok got it - YOU are relating the two together by assumption.
That's why I can't find it in the Bible.

[Covenanter]

 

Could our scholars be a little mistaken on their teaching?  It would seem so.

There I do agree. I wondered why I disagree with every one on this sort of topic - no surprise - you all disagree with each other. Though, to be fair, you're closer to each other than to me.

 

Let's establish common ground.

We are saved when we repent of our sin & trust in Jesus for salvation.

That salvation is evident by godly living, with the indwelling Holy Spirit guiding & motivating us.

Believers cannot lose their salvation, but will continue in the faith.

Jesus is coming again, & at his coming dead believers will be resurrected, & living believers will be caught up with them, & all will be ever with the Lord.

 

Then the differences follow & I give the answers I believe:

dead unbelievers will also be raised for judgement, & unbelievers will be numbered with them, judged & cast into hell.

the earth, cleansed of sinners will be renewed so there will be recreated a new heaven & new earth, perfect & righteous, with perfect communion between heaven & earth.

 

I refer to 2 Thes. 1 where we see believers suffering tribulation at the hands of the ungodly, Christ coming to inflict eternal tribulation on the ungodly & vindicating believers at the same time.

 

Prophecy can be Scripturally fitted into that scheme of things.

 

Meanwhile our task is to watch & pray, & serve our master faithfully as those expecting to give account at his return.

[Covenanter]

Replying to the OP, I am not keen on McArthur he talks too much & includes statements in his sermons which he hasn't thought out but defends rather than retracting. These get transcribed & published.

 

Our church felt the need of a men's gathering with the theme "Grow in grace" & McArthur's "Fundamentals of the Faith" course was accepted. The resources include sermons preached in 1975, & transcribed verbatim without editing, & with little structure & no headings. Reading one, it wasn't clear that a question & answer session was being transcribed - I had to listen before I was sure. In 34 years later, he produced the course using those sermons - but with good structure & well thought out.

This is how he prepares a sermon:

 

The way I study, first of all I would read the text in several versions along with the Greek text handy there until I understand it. Like I was working on I Corinthians Four, fourteen to twenty one this week and so I read it and read it and read it and read it and just kept reading it again repetitiously until I Corinthians fourteen, twenty one is so much in my mind I could probably stand here and quote you the whole passage and I haven't even tried to memorize it. But I've saturated my mind with it. Now when I do that and do that then it begins to mean something to me, then in the middle of that I see concepts, I see in that passage Paul making a very, very clear statement about that he's the spiritual father of the Corinthians and that that means this and this and an outline develops and once that develops I put that on paper then I go verse by verse through the passage and I get

commentaries and I line up about ten or eleven commentaries and I read everything everybody has ever written on that passage because I want to know the whole breadth of information about that verse and so I may read twelve commentaries on every verse in that whole section and I take all kinds of notes on that and then I throw all that together and our comes Sunday morning. Good, bad or indifferent.

 

[Standing Firm In Christ]

His mark of the beat stance is definitely bad.

[AVBibleBeliever]

I know it's not the body of Christ. I never said it was and if you know anything about me from this forum you'd know that.

Just making sure