Heretic List

[No Nicolaitans]

Has the Holy Spirit never told you to pray for someone or speak to them? Has the Lord never warned you away from something? Does the Lord not give specific answers to specific questions?

 

Sure! But it's still according to scripture.

 

One thing that stands out that I'll never forget.  I don't remember if I've shared this before; if so, forgive me.  I'll try to keep it short also.

 

Not long after I was saved, I was really into prophecy. One day, I went to a Wal Mart and noticed a man walking through the parking lot. He had on a tie and was holding a briefcase. My first thought was that he was selling insurance. Well, he made a bee-line for me when he saw me. He said that he was out witnessing to people for the Lord. I was a new Christian, so I thought that was great. He then said that he had some books that he'd like to share, and I could get one for any amount of money I wanted to give. He showed me one, and it was about prophecy. 

 

Since I was into prophecy, I wanted that book. I reached in my pocket and pulled out some coins.  I asked him if that was okay, and he said it was. I put the book in my car and went in to do my shopping. All the time in the store, I couldn't wait to get home and read that book. I cut my shopping short and headed home.

 

About half-way home, I was hit with the urge to just throw the book away. Well, I didn't. I went home and started reading it. I found where the chapter was dealing with the mark of the beast and started there. That's when I realized the Spirit was trying to get me to throw the book away. It said the mark of the beast was going to church on Sunday. The man was a 7th Day Adventist.

 

I begged the Lord for forgiveness for giving money to false teachers.  That one incident taught me more than I could ever express.

 

John, everything that you asked about...

 

Has the Holy Spirit never told you to pray for someone or speak to them? Has the Lord never warned you away from something? Does the Lord not give specific answers to specific questions?

 

...is according to scripture.

 

The problem comes in when folks say the Spirit tells them to do things (or leads them to do things) that aren't according to scripture or even scriptural.

[wretched]

Good story brother NN, but consider the same exact incident before you got saved. Creepy guy, bad vibe, you buy the book out of slight curiosity and a measure of politeness.

Toss the book anyway because of the thought of the creepy guy or simply no real interest (after all, it costs a few coins).

 

I think even the most solid christians are seriously confused over what the Spirit does and doesn't do. Convict of sin, righteousness and judgement, regenerates us into new creatures, guides us in all truth (from the Word) which is the complete and finished truth - all yes. Guides you verbally, no. Blocks sin from you-no. Provides some supernatural sign for you to not read a book-NO.

Sorry brother, but this is charismatic thinking.

Just my opinion, but give it some thought.

[No Nicolaitans]

I see where you're coming from brother, but I don't see that it's charismatic.  I'm probably the least charismatic-accepting person that I know. 

 

I can't consider the incident before I was saved; it happened after I was saved.  I don't know how I would have responded before I was saved.  The man wasn't creepy, there was no bad vibe, and he wasn't pushy.  He was clean cut, courteous, and likable.

 

Like I said, I understand where you're coming from; however, I believe that the Holy Spirit can prompt a believer as long as it's in line with scripture.

 

I certainly don't think he speaks audibly.  

 

Blocks from sin...hmmm...I don't know. In light of Galatians 5:16, ...if we walk in the Spirit, we won't fulfill the lust of the flesh. So he does play a part in keeping us from sin.

 

I certainly don't think he provides supernatural signs either.

 

I do think that the Spirit prompted my spirit though.  And to have gotten rid of the book would have been in accordance with scripture. 

[EKSmith]

 The biggest problem with christian's is they do not listen to the Holly Spirit when he speaks to them and most just go about doing things their way.  

 

Every born again christian is given the Holly Spirit of God in which he convicts us when we have done wrong and brings us to repentance, he helps us to overcome temptations, He teaches us God word , he helps us in prayer,he leads us to make the right decisions in our lives, he helps us to do the work we do for God,  the list could on and on for everything that the Holly Spirit does in our lives and without Him we are lost.

 

Anyone that does not believe that the Holly Spirit does not speak to the born again christian ' I ask them to prove this by the use of scripture  

[John81]

I agree NN, I was referring to Wretched's idea that the Lord doesn't speak to us directly.

 

Why does Scripture say to listen to the Lord if He's not going to speak to us? If we ask the Lord a specific question, perhaps what job to take, what would it serve to ask if the Lord isn't going to answer?

 

Absolutely the Lord will not tell anyone something that contradicts His Word, but He does speak to His people directly and not only through the Word.

[candlelight]

I didn't put it in my profile the site automatically puts us all in a group with an "*".  We cannot change that.  However I come from baptist training and theology under Dr Harold Wilmington, Elmer Towns, and Jerry Vines.

 

However, my experience is that because of very harsh wordings, and some ugly confrontations people carrying the Baptist tag and well as those who fell into immorality in and above adultery has me not wanting to carry any denomination name.  for no matter which one (denomination that is) it all hurts the Body of Christ and when one hurts we all hurt.  I just use the word Christian and teach it not a follower but as an anointed one, a son of God, through faith on the cross of Jesus Christ.

AVBB, I consider you IFB.  If you hadn't stated you went to a non-denominational church, I would have thought you were IFB.  Your posts are IFB.

[2bLikeJesus]

As long as the name "Baptist" still means a belief in certain core Baptist beliefs, I will continue to proudly call myself Baptist.  If the day comes when the church has gone so apostate that the name Baptist no longer means what it should, then I will drop the name.  As it is, I feel we can no longer call ourselves simply Baptist, but as on our church sign we have to put descriptors such as "Independent, Fundamental, KVJ Only" on it so as not to be confused with some of the other "Baptist" (many of which really need to take Baptist off of their sign) churches in our area.  Two churches have indeed taken Baptist off their sign and gone with a non-denominational moniker.  The local GARB baptist church became "Wellspring" when they jettisoned  the KJV bible, music and dress standards.  Thankfully though when I encounter their members when out soul winning, I believe they are still getting at least a sound gospel message still, because of their testimony of salvation.  What is sad is the fact that they went from a church of about 140 to around 1500 now (and a huge beautiful building) since the change.  The other church which was the First Baptist Church became the "Church of the Open Door" with Mr. AND Mrs. so-and-so as Pastors.  They are all about drug rehab and prison ministry.   The Pastor himself is a recovering drug addict and convicted felon.  We have an American Baptist Church and strong Baptist Briders who believe everyone in our church is going straight to hell because we can't trace our church lineage all the way back to the apostles (and I don't believe for a second they can either) and they actively campaign against our "legalist" church that has no authority to even be a church in the first place.

 

It is this very visible cannibalistic fighting inside of the "Baptist" denomination between IFB, Southern, GARB, American, and even a Free Will 7th Day Baptist (someone must have listened to a "Banner" and a "Jeffery" both) that I believe hurts our name more than the horrible failings of some very prominent Pastors.

 

Bro. Garry

 

Note:  Someone asked me why sometimes I sign off with "In His will.  By His power.  For His glory" and sometimes simply as Bro. Garry.  I sign off as Bro. Garry when the topic is entirely my own opinion without any scriptural proofs given as the foundation for my opinion.  Therefore, I do not presume to be speaking in God's will, power, or for His glory.

[candlelight]

I don't associate myself with all Baptists.  I am an Independent Fundamental Baptist.  I am proud to carry the IFB tag.  Do we have some loose cannons in the IFB church?  Sure, we do.  However, sin is everywhere, and no one is immune to it.  Still, I will hold to IFB doctrine, b/c I believe the doctrine is as close to the early church as one can get.  

[wretched]

NN: I suppose we are saying the same things but differently.

 

I cringe when I hear IFBs say the Lord told me this or that or the Spirit is leading me this way or that.

 

It is your renewed conscience and opened eyes to the truth of the Word that is telling you this, not the Lord directly.

 

On your fleshly job desires, where you should live, whom you should marry, the Lord is not interested. His interest is only that you serve Him. It is your renewed conscience and new found knowledge of the Word that tells you not to take a better paying job in a brewery or the porn industry, not the Spirit directly. The Lord says nothing of your occupation otherwise in the Bible. Nor of whom you marry apart from "in the Lord".

 

Too much emotion and feeling are mistaken for the Lord "speaking" to folks is all I am saying. How we "feel" and our emotional states change daily and can never be relied upon or decisions made by. Your emotions or how you feel is never of the Lord, it is only of your mind.

[John81]

According to Scripture the Lord is interested in every detail of our lives, right down to the very number of hairs upon our head. We are told to pray about everything, to cast all our cares upon Him, to surrender ourselves completely and follow the Lord's leading in all things at all times.

 

The Lord does indeed care what job we have, where we live and who we marry.

 

If we draw close to the Lord, He draws close to us; and just as Jesus said His sheep hear His voice and follow Him, so we are called to do, thus the Lord does indeed "speak" to us directly and answers specific prayers.

[John81]

With regards to the Baptist name, I agree with much of what's been said above. I still call myself Baptist but I'm always mindful that I may need to explain that and I need to always be ready and willing to specify just what sort of Baptist I am.

 

Depending upon the part of the country one is in people can have a wide variety of ideas in their head when they hear someone is Baptist. I've noticed more in recent years that it's also becoming necessary to explain the descriptors used to identify what sort of Baptist we speak of. Some folks don't even understand what "independent" actually means, let alone terms like "fundamentalist" or "Bible believing", or "traditional", "conservative" or most any of the other terms that sometimes come up in trying to help someone understand.

 

I know some prefer to simply say they are a "Christian", or "Bible believing Christian", but I've found that one has to do just as much explaining about that as they do when using the term Baptist if they really want the person to know what we mean. The terms "Christian" and "Bible believing" mean different things to different people just as "Baptist" or "IFB" does.

 

In all the explaining I make it a point to always turn the explanation to telling about Jesus. I've found I can sometimes weave the Gospel and plan of salvation into the explanation without some folks even realizing that's the direction the conversation has taken. By that time it's too late to cut me off and they are faced with the conviction of the Spirit upon them.

[wretched]

Can't quote today sorry

 

While studying the Word or hearing the Word preached, the Spirit is showing you Truth, guiding you in Truth. Not when your Bible is closed and you are shopping or playing golf however. When you are doing other things apart from study and mediation, it is simply your memory of His Word and your renewed conscience guiding you.

 

Come on John81, you seem pretty solid in many areas. The only way you know what Jesus says about His sheep hearing His voice is from His Word, get a grip buddy.

Point being: We know nothing of God apart from His Word. We learn nothing of "His Will" apart from His Word. We receive no revelation apart from His Word.This is the same argument I make with Pentecostal females.

 

We are not in the first century but far more important, We are not the Apostles. They were the only ones anointed by the Lord in the NT, They saw the Lord in the flesh, They receive verbatim His Words to pen for the rest of us. Stop confusing yourself with them. We, my friends, are not those men.

 

Pentecostals are lead by their emotions which they confuse for the Lord's voices. They feel more spiritual than those lead by faith only in the Word and not by sight or imaginations. They think they hear God speaking to them, they think everything unusual is a sign or miracle, they think they see demons floating around people and in and out of houses, etc.. These things are emotional vanity and not of God. Worst part about this is it feeds the enemies of the Gospel and does disservice to the Lord.

 

The last time the Lord spoke to a person as recorded as speaking was the Apostle Paul and here is the kicker, everyone around Paul knew that was happening.

 

One question: How many others on here are hearing these voices?

[John81]

Just because it's not recorded in the Bible doesn't mean God hasn't been talking to people.

 

I don't recall reading of any pastors, evangelists or missionaries (past or present) who didn't point out their personally hearing from the Lord. In fact, most specifically tell of the importance of prayer and listening for the Lord's response.

[Bro K]

"One question: How many others on here are hearing these voices?"

 

I can only give my personal experience which happened about 55 years ago.

My grandfather had died and I was walking from his house to the church. I was doing something that I shouldn't have been doing. I heard a voice that told me that I shouldn't be doing what I was doing. There was no one else around and the closet house was some distance away. I remember seeing an old chicken coop about 30-40 feet off the road. The was voice was so real that I went to find who was hiding in the old coop. No one there.

 

A question that needs to be asked is this. Can God/Holy Spirit control our minds so that we hear his voice which may not be audible to the human ear? 

[John81]

According to Scripture the Lord can speak to one person while others around don't hear Him.

 

We see this with God speaking to Jesus and a few heard Him but others only heard thunder. Paul heard from the Lord but those with Him didn't.

 

The Lord can speak so we hear Him with our ears; He can speak directly to our minds so that it's absolutely clear it's Him.

 

Yes, the Lord does also speak to us through our conscious and through His Spirit bearing witness to ours, and this is often done through preaching and reading of the Word, but that's not God's only means of communicating with us.

 

We are to have a personal relationships with the Lord. How personal of a relationship can we have if we don't talk to one another and if we don't really communicate?