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Can We Reclaim This Dress Standard?

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One of the differences pertaining to America with regards to pants is, yes some women did wear pants prior to the 20th century, mostly for comfort and practicality, but in the mid-20th century some women began wearing pants (including pant suits) as a means of expressing their radical feminism. They were purposefully trying to stir trouble by the style of pants they wore, how they wore them and the attitude they proclaimed in them. This greatly tainted the whole issue, much as hippies wearing beards in the 60s had the effect of seeing many churches and pastors denouncing beards as of the devil to the point of not allowing pastors to have beards and requiring male church members to be clean shaven!

 

I always wondered where that no beards thing came from. Seems to me beards are more biblical than the lack thereof.

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One of the differences pertaining to America with regards to pants is, yes some women did wear pants prior to the 20th century, mostly for comfort and practicality, but in the mid-20th century some women began wearing pants (including pant suits) as a means of expressing their radical feminism. They were purposefully trying to stir trouble by the style of pants they wore, how they wore them and the attitude they proclaimed in them. This greatly tainted the whole issue, much as hippies wearing beards in the 60s had the effect of seeing many churches and pastors denouncing beards as of the devil to the point of not allowing pastors to have beards and requiring male church members to be clean shaven!

I agree with you John. Most of the pants wearing of recent days was a result of feminism. I'm not against pants on women and I think a woman wearing a dress in certain situations is not only ridiculous but even immodest but at the same time I think Christian women should wear a dress as much as possible. Especially to church.

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I always wondered where that no beards thing came from. Seems to me beards are more biblical than the lack thereof.

I read it had something to do with World War I. Men had to be clean shaven in order to wear the gas masks. After the "war to end all wars" (hardy har har)  it became a fad. I wear a beard sometimes throughout winter but it does become hard to keep clean and itches like crazy.

Edited by ASongOfDegrees

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I've wore a beard for about 30 years, from close cut to rather long and I've never had a problem keeping it clear or with it itching. I typically wash my beard with the same shampoo I wash my hair with and that's worked very well for me.

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I've wore a beard for about 30 years, from close cut to rather long and I've never had a problem keeping it clear or with it itching. I typically wash my beard with the same shampoo I wash my hair with and that's worked very well for me.

I sweat like a hog. I think it's because of my asthma medicine I take so my beard gets dirty and itchy quickly. When I drove OTR truck I got really bad. ha ha. I looked like Animal from the Muppets. 

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I saw the Ten Commandments and men had long hair! :thumbdown:  Really long hair! :rolleyes:

It's amazing how they almost always show men in ancient times as having long hair. This even when the historical records indicate otherwise.

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I sweat like a hog. I think it's because of my asthma medicine I take so my beard gets dirty and itchy quickly. When I drove OTR truck I got really bad. ha ha. I looked like Animal from the Muppets. 

That's funny!

 

For some reason I sweat a lot too. I think washing my beard with shampoo really makes a big difference. I mostly wear a close cut beard these days so that makes it not much trouble too.

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Interestingly, while clean-shaven became vogue after the war, pants on women became vogue.  Both linked to the war, actually.  But after the feminist movement took hold, men began wearing beards again (in the '70s and forward). One of my college professors was talking about it (he was bearded) and told us that was a backlash to the feminist movement - the underlying thought to the movement was that women could do anything a man could do.  Except grow a beard.   :ROFL:

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Interestingly, while clean-shaven became vogue after the war, pants on women became vogue.  Both linked to the war, actually.  But after the feminist movement took hold, men began wearing beards again (in the '70s and forward). One of my college professors was talking about it (he was bearded) and told us that was a backlash to the feminist movement - the underlying thought to the movement was that women could do anything a man could do.  Except grow a beard.   :ROFL:

You are probably right but a lot of hippies wore beards and they seemed to be a by product of the feminist movement or at least went hand in hand with feminists. Seems to me that the beards of the 70's were a sign of rebellion against "the old man" who was clean shaven and had short hair.

 

Anyways, beards are once again frowned upon even though a study shows that men with beards are viewed as more trustworthy. 

 

It seems to be that a lot of women today want men to look boyish in their appearance. This could have something to do with many of today's women wanting "house husbands" or "Mr. Moms" (or the new term, "pajama boys") in the home.

 

IMO though, the man of the house should wear, or not wear, what pleases his wife.

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My husband has worn a goatee, but with his line of work his skin also becomes itchy.  I really like it.  It makes him look older.  And, because I am almost six years older than he is, it makes me feel better.  :)

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It has become increasingly difficult to actually prove from the Bible that "pants on women are wrong".  You can teach modesty, and you can make an argument that most pants are not as modest as skirts.  On the other hand, in our area, most Baptists wear pants on their own time.  At a local IFB church we are very familiar with...they have a "rule" about wearing skirts in youth group for activities, but the skirts are so tight and above the knee and honestly may just as well be pants...pants would cover more.  I do not think the "cross dressing" argument can any longer be made in our society (especially in light of men moving towards skirts, probably within the next ten years.)   So really the main argument that is valid from Scripture is the part about being modest.

 

My husband and I have discussed this at length...I was raised wearing pants (as a Christian) and I gave them up at college, but it has become an increasingly difficult struggle for me, especially in the winter, as probably 98% of all the IFBs in our area (Philly suburbs) wear pants on their own time.    It is wearisome to be one of the only "odd women out", honestly--and honestly, men do not have to face that in their lives.  It is easy for them to make rules they do not have to follow.   It is easy for them to say "I don't want men looking at your crotch" so instead the men wonder why you're wearing a skirt when it's ten degrees outside.  LOL.  (That was just me saying that, I realize it's not Biblical and I'm not advocating that argument.  Just a FYI.)

 

WITH that said.... my husband will state that the main problem he has with women wearing pants is the crotch/butt area.   He says it draws a man's attention and is immodest.  And for that reason, other than very loose lounge pants at home, and this year (due to all the snow!) allowing me to get a pair of ski pants...he asks that I wear skirts in public basically at all times.   In summer, maybe a loose, knee length pair of walking shorts for hiking in or something, that does not show the crotch or butt.

 

I find it frustrating at times, because the line has been blurred between modesty, style, and fashion SO dramatically, especially in larger city areas, that it is pretty much beyond changing, IMHO.   I'm a very casual person big on comfort, and tights and pantyhose are NOT comfortable on my stomach, haha, so it is a challenge to find skirts that look nice in the winter and keep my legs warm without fighting tights or leggings.   

 

Anyway, before you guys get upset with me...I do respect and obey my husband.  He does lead our home.  :-)    But just from my perspective...I defended skirts-only for YEARS until finally I was unable to defend it (as a 100% thing) anymore.  I have had pastors tell me why you can't preach skirts-only.  I have had every argument I've ever made proven wrong...all except the fact that if a guy has a problem looking at a woman's butt, then the pants are not modest.  

 

I do want to know, though...I know girls who lust after men's butts.  And I know men who wear pants and I'm sorry, but so many times there is an unsightly bulge in the front.  So...in all honesty....and true honest question...why is it okay to see a man's butt and, well, you know...in a pair of jeans?   People say "Well women don't lust like men".   Maybe I don't, and maybe you don't....but women do these days!!!!!!   And in the Bible, men wore their trousers as undergarments.

 

I really do want to understand that last question.

 

Once again, yes, I wear skirts in public.  FTR.  :-)

 

Kitagrl, I found black leggings (one size fits all) at Walgreens yesterday.  They were $5.00 per pair.  I bought four of them.  I don't have a problem with leggings being uncomfortable.  If you are interested, you might want to check out Walgreens if you have one in your area.  They were up at the checkout counter.

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I have a pride confession to make.  I got dressed in slacks and nice shirt and tie because I had to drop in at Walmart while I was running some errands and I didn't want to look like a Walmart shopper.

:clapping: Brother Garry.

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I have read these posts with interest.  Clothing is always an area of disagreement between well meaning Christian people.  Here is my two cents from what I have been able to spiritually discern from Bible study:

 

Clothing is important to God:

 

 In the OT priests took great care of their garments and the law was specific in what they were to wear.  

 

Both in the OT and NT there are specifics about clothing for both women and men so being repeated more than once it is important for both the law and age of grace.

 

 We are to honor God in all 1 Cor 10:31.  So if we keep God in mind, not ourselves, or others, we will want to please Him in all areas including our choice of clothing.  Certainly we cannot reach this perfection of pleasing Him in all this side of Heaven but our conscious does work or we would not be Christians and God has innately planted inside of us an inner voice to guide us in making choices, including our clothing.

 

 Now speaking for myself: the choice of what clothing to wear was not an area of first conviction.  Even though I was positionally sanctified my clothing choices did not line up best with God's Word until He convicted me of necessary changes to make.  

 

To look at another just from outside we can come to inappropriate conclusions based only on  their outward appearance.  God knows the heart.

 

Would it not be better to take an individual under your wing who may not be convicted in this area, clothing, and allow God to use you rather than look from a distance and pick them apart spiritually.  That was what was most helpful for me in many areas needing change was an individual who cared enough to expect my best for God not just what I felt like giving to Him.

 

However, that being said- there are individuals who do not want to change in this area of their life placing a stumbling block for other Christians. Then it is up to a God fearing group of Christians led by a man of God who is willing to do the work of the God: pray, model, teach, and rebuke, allowing God's hand and timing to work in the situation in His will and way. 2 Tim 2:15, 2 Tim 3:16

 

Honestly, there are just too many weak kneed leaders and Christians  not willing to change and flee from personal sin in their life which is just as distasteful to God as improper clothing.  Lets face it .... we all need much improvement in our Christian walk.

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2belikeJesus, let's not be knocking Walmart shoppers. For some of us it's the only big store in town! And affordable. I try to only go once a month. However, I agree I make sure I don't wear anything that will get me on peopleofwalmart.com!

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Our town must be one of the most conservative towns. I have never seen scantily clad people at our walmart.

Boy, we see it all the time at my Wal-Mart. But, then again, my area has recently become inundated with gypsies, and those young girls dress to attract the boys. It's horrible!

 

To address the OP, I think this is an area where we can cross over into legalism very quickly if we're not careful. This is one of those areas where it's impossible to line up today's standards with the standards that would have been around during the times the Bible was written, because in the region of Israel, and in those times, clothing that pertains to men and clothing that pertains to women would be vastly different than what we hold as a standard today, in Western society. This is why we should search the Scriptures, seek wise, godly counsel from the older women (per Titus 2) and give this area over to the Lord entirely. Ask your husband. If you aren't married, ask your dad. Chances are, even if your husband or father isn't walking with the Lord he will know what manner of dress provokes lust in a man's mind. 

 

You would be surprised what sort of things can cause a brother to stumble. I stopped wearing cross-body bags (like messenger bags) a few years ago when I read about how it draws a very tight line down through a woman's bust line. It honestly never occurred to me! I do not attend a dresses-only church, even though we are an independent, conservative, KJVO church. Many of our members are very poor and come to church in their work clothes or their blue jeans and t-shirts. We do have some young women who have been asked to please dress more modestly. These are our bus ministry teens and many of them come from rough homes, so there is no one there to give them sound advice on modest clothing when they are shopping and, subsequently, dressing for Sunday services. 

 

I have gone through periods of being skirts/dresses-only. I even went through a season of covering my head except when sleeping. With that said, I do occasionally wear pants. Mainly just for exercising. I have tried wearing skirts/dresses to walk. Even wearing leggings underneath, it's very uncomfortable. I wear loose fitting track pants, though, and a long t-shirt to cover myself. I wear only skirts/dresses to church, with the exception of the ladies' meetings. Because I'm only in the company of other women, I will occasionally, wear a nice pair of blue jeans to those with a tunic top. At church I wear skirts and dresses that come below the knee. If they are made of a lighter fabric, I wear a slip. If, by some slim chance, the skirt falls at the knee or slightly above the knee cap, I will wear tights or leggings underneath so when I sit down I will still be modest. And all shirts fall at collar bone length or higher. Our church choir loft has a modesty wall, since we don't use choir rOBes.

 

Women should be mindful of how to bend and sit down like a lady. If your shirt might gap open, hold it in place with your hand. Try to crouch, not bend at the waist. Another issue of modesty I think men and women should think about is hugging. I know Baptists are a friendly lot, and handshake time is commonplace in the middle of Sunday morning service, but I'm of the opinion that unrelated men and women should not hug. There are exceptions, of course. If one must hug, then it should be to the side, or just a brief arm around the neck. Bodies shouldn't be pressed together in the front and there shouldn't be embracing. I have only "hugged" two men at church. I gave a quick arm around the shoulder to my pastor once when he asked for prayer and another was an elder in our church whose wife had just passed away. I will hug other women all day long, and hug most women in my church, but the men get handshakes. Unfortunately, we have a real "Mr. Friendly" in my church who doesn't seem to understand that and will try and pull me in for a hug every time. I've had to learn how to dodge him during handshake time.

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