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Cloud Or Chappell


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It is rather ironic that those who claim to love the "independent" aspect  of IFBs are among those who love their camps and like trying to bring others in while taking jabs at those in other camps.

I really don't care about the different camps. Believe you me, I really don't. Sometimes I'll go on the defense of a preacherchurchbible college because I know for a fact that they are being misrepresented or I try to give them the benefit of the doubt (like in the case of Caner). I tend to root for the underdogs anyway and anyone being piled on is an underdog in my eyes. I also sometimes will defend someone who's writings or ministry has helped me personally but it's purely on that basis that I do that. Not because I'm joined up with any camp. I admit in the past I've knocked on Dr. Cloud without really knowing all what he stands for. Most of this was because I know he misrepresented other ministries and pastors but I have since stop doing this and remain silent about him.

 

Also,  I think tearing down a fallen preacher or church is not productive unless they are unrepentant. But even then I try to avoid it because the unsaved and backsliders take joy in seeing this. They love seeing Christians devour each other in a time of need instead of restoring. I really mean this but it hurts me deeply when I hear of a IFB preacher falling into sin and even more when I read some of the gleeful posts produced by Christians when this happens. It should be a time of humility and mercy not a time of mockery and cheering.

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Despite the denial you are correct. I know of one who used to moderate on this site who would shot down every pastor who wasn't him.

 

My policy is that you can get something good from just about every man of God. Even bible correctors. Just toss out the bad and use the good. This will help you avoid joining any "camps". 

 

I believe that ASOD.  I have listened to various IFB pastors, and that is what I do.  I try not to look for the negatives in a pastor.  I have heard my own pastor say things that I don't agree on.  Yet, I still sit under his authority.  Just because I don't agree with everything a pastor says, unless it is God's word, doesn't mean I can't take something good from their sermon.

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This has been a battle and failing of all churches Li Bai Jia.  Paul fought this very early in his ministry as you can see:

 

1 Corinthians 1:11-17 (KJV)
11  For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you.
12  Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
13  Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
14  I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
15  Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.
16  And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.
17  For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.  

 

Paul fought divisions (schisms) and contentions of the church even back then with members cleaving to one or the other church leaders.

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  • 7 years later...
Guest Prayer Warrior

I considered the original poster's concern along with reading what many others have written. I don't think, since we aren't following men, that the issue is so much which man, but rather to look at their fruit. 

Just from what I can see and what I have learned of them both, you need to avoid ungodly music, this we know, and Chappell is unrepentant at this point. So ask yourself, are you okay with this and will you go after him, and your children?

Cloud has failings also and will be persuaded with doctrinal and biblical rebuke, but I personally at this point have no reason to mistrust him. If I am made known of a good reason, and for which he does not repent, I will leave hearing him. But we are blessed to be able today to have so many sermons, messages, songs, and biblical preaching available to us. 

Please notice that I did not add to that list 'perfect men'. It's not that men don't sin, it's what they do with it. 

We are all accountable to God!!!

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As I have been reading through the old posts herein, it gets me thinking: Even Lighthouse in San Diego, my old alma mater, as it were, has begun to allow some small amount of altered CCM into their music, an issue that greatly saddens me. I don't know how much, but I have heard it. And it gets me thinking, often the pastor himself takes a stand against such, but as a church grows into a massive size, the pastor cannot possibly be hands-on in every area as he ought to be, and has to entrust certain things to others. It is here that there enters the great danger of sneaking in this sort of music. I think that's what happened at Lighthouse, when a new music minister took over. 

All this makes me think that, maybe churches ought to consider, How big should a church become, before they ought to consider breaking into multiple assemblies, over just one with thousands? Ultimately, the Pastor will answer for what has been allowed there, and if he can no longer have hands-on control, at least to a reasonable point, should that church, perhaps, become two churches? Or three? Ought we be in the business of building megachurches? The huge church in Jerusalem was never meant to remain that large, but they also had 12 leaders, 12 pastors, if you will, not one or two, and eventually it broke up into many scattered churches all over Asia and the middle east. 

So, should churches consider breaking up, rather than building huge monoliths, which history will tell us, ALWAYS eventually fall to error?

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