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Bakershalfdozen

Wow! Kudos To This Public School Principal...

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...for SPANKING students who need it. It is still legal in some states. This guy seems to have a balanced approach and the proof's in the pudding.

You could even go so far as to say, the proof of the pudding is in the beating...







:Green

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I remember when I was in elementary school my father saying to the principal (in front of me) that if he had any behavior problems with me he had his permission to spank me and then tell my dad and I'd get it again at home. That pretty much sent me the message not to good off in school.

With that said, I'm totally against any kind of spanking of students in any kind of public education setting. Too many variables and it is the parents responsibility......not someone elses.

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Well at that school, the parents have to give permission for it to happen at all. Also, the parents are given the option to come to the school and spank. If they delegate that authority to the principal, that is their prerogative.

I admire this principal for having the courage to do this, all the while maintaining compassion for the students.

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With that said' date=' I'm totally against any kind of spanking of students in any kind of public education setting. Too many variables and it is the parents responsibility......not someone elses.[/quote']
I think I agree with you here, trc. I've given this issue some thought, having been both a classroom teacher and a parent. I know that teachers are supposedly acting in loco parentis when they spank a child. IOW, the parents have delegated the authority to administer that sort of discipline to the school administration...which is fine, I guess (kind of a biblical "loophole"), but certainly not preferable. The Bible really never gives anyone but parents the instruction to discipline their kids in this way.

When I was a 21-year-old fourth grade teacher, fresh from college, "knowing everything" but having zero experience, I had to spank 10 out of my 30 students (for things like lying, cheating, etc.). I remember standing in the principal's office, holding a paddle for the very first time, facing someone else's crying child, and thinking: "I have no idea how to use this thing. How hard do I hit? How far back do I need to swing my arm?" etc. Was the discipline effective? Probably. Was it right? I don't know.

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Corporal punishment in the Public School system is still VERY legal in the State of Ohio. Most people are oblivious to this fact.

Thanks for sharing... Bakers. Amen to him! Yes... some students need it. =)

~ Molly

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True, but it would seem that the Bible never gives us the idea that we should be leaving our children to someone else's care and instruction for half of their waking hours 5 days a week, either.

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I see your point...but it all goes back to what I believe the purpose of a spanking is. I do not see a spanking (as described biblically) as punishment, but as part of an ongoing, loving relationship we personally, as a mom and dad, have established with our child. I don't see it as something anyone outside this relationship should do. The school officials do not have such a relationship with my child. (Of course my children are homeschooled, but I'm talking about if they did attend school.) I'm not saying it is wrong for others (not mom and dad) to spank a child; I'm just saying I wouldn't want anyone else spanking my children, and I can understand why other parents wouldn't want that, either. I don't think the biblical purpose of a spanking is punishment, but part of a discipleship process between two parties who both recognize it to be such. That's why I would not be in favor of spanking in public schools. They abuse the purpose of spanking. (I'm sure it gets results, but that in itself is not enough to make it right--just pragmatic.) I would be more in favor of a Christian school, where at least the goal is spiritual growth and biblical character development, to employ what is called "corporal punishment" (I don't even agree with the name) than I would be a public school doing so.

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I would give Corporal Punishment a medal but' date=' he can't be found here in Ohio. MIA.[/quote']

lol... 1Tim. He is legal, though. It is sad that many people don't know this to be fact. :) They haven't known it for years... and they wonder what is wrong with the public school system in OH? Just because they took the actual paddle down off the wall... doesn't mean it isn't still in OH law. It is legal and people are oblivious to it. :sad

God bless ~

Molly

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One of the reasons that most people don't realize that it's still legal in many states to spank children at school is the media. All the hype about abuse (and really, I know that it goes on, so I'm not making light of it) puts a scare into people, and with all the psychobabble about it hurting a child's psyche...a majority of people in America no longer believe that spanking is necessary for aiding in instilling self-discipline. Time outs and lost privileges are the answer...even as we see the poor results all around us!!!

As far as spanking in the public schools....this principal obviously has the right attitude. He isn't spanking for the joy of inflicting pain. He doesn't enjoy it. And he has parental permission. Parental permission is all that he needs to be Biblical about it, even though that wasn't a point in the article.

The father is the head of the home...and if he chooses to put his child(ren) in any school, that is his right. And if he chooses to give permission for that school to administer discipline, that is also his right, as head of his home. The Bible may not say that others can spank, but if the father delegates it is within the sphere of his responsibility.

I think homeschooling is wonderful. We did it for several years, and I missed it greatly, as did our son, when we put him in school. But it was a decision made by my husband, who believed it was what God wanted for us at the time. And part of that was giving permission for our son to be spanked. We could have opted for my hubby to come in and spank. But we trust(ed) the principal and don't regret any of the spankings our son got. And my son has a very strong attachment to the principal as a result.

When our son was younger, I baby-sat. One of the conditions of the babysitting was that I could spank if need be. Why? They were in my home, and I wasn't going to have my home (when I say I, I mean my hubby, too) torn up by kids who wouldn't listen to me. Most of the kids I babysat were with me more than they were with their parents. And I look at them as adults today and see the results of my aid in their rearing. Many of them make me proud...and many of them love me still.

Betcha those kids the principal has to spank love him.

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Bravo to your post, LuAnne!!

When my (our) son was in the fifth grade... he was having a tough time. That was also a very rough year for me, as a teacher... too. My son did not see his biological dad for almost a whole year (not by mine, my hubby's or his choice... either.) My husband (Joe) is his step-dad.

Anyhoo... he would walk home from school with some friends to my in-laws house that year. I would pick him up from work, shortly after he got there. My MIL had to paddle him a couple of times. She told me about it... he didn't. :lol: "Kudos" to her! He needed it! They have a very warm, loving, relationship to this day.

In Christ ~

Molly

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As far as spanking in the public schools....this principal obviously has the right attitude. He isn't spanking for the joy of inflicting pain. He doesn't enjoy it. And he has parental permission. Parental permission is all that he needs to be Biblical about it' date=' even though that wasn't a point in the article.[/quote']
Just to clear something up...I didn't want anyone to think that by using the word "abuse," I was talking about the attitude of the school official giving the corporal punishment, as in, they are abusing the kids. I was opining that they are abusing the purpose of spanking by using it as a punishment instead of a discipleship tool. IMO, spanking is not meant to punish, but to further one's spiritual growth within an ongoing, close, loving relationship (parent/child). Again, I understand the concept of in loco parentis. I wouldn't go so far as to say that it is "wrong" for a parent to allow someone outside the family to spank their child. I'm just saying that I cannot be sure it is right, and I am not comfortable with it for that reason.

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Properly used, I have no problem with spankings in school. In days gone by, the teachers and principles tended to be locals that were known within the community. That's not always true these days. While those who ran the school once tended to hold the same values as the community, this often isn't true today.

I wouldn't give permission for a stranger to spank my child. If the teacher/principal were known to be man of charactor by me and that I could trust their judgement in such matters I would agree to such.

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Annie - I understand what you are saying, but don't agree completely. I do agree that spanking is to further spiritual growth, and is part of discipleship. But I also believe that it is punishment. There are two aspects to discipline: the disciplinary, or teaching time, and the punishment time. Both are necessary. The Bible tells us that the Lord chastens those whom He loves. Chastening is punishment...

As I said (and I know you agree with this!!), the hubby makes decisions for his own family - and if your hubby doesn't want anyone else spanking your kids but the two of you, that is certainly his right!!! And I would not advocate that just anyone could spank, either! I think only those who are in a position of authority given by the father should be - babysitter (I'm not talking the 12 year old who has the child for an hour and a half...I mean someone who provides daycare), principal or teacher who is designated for such, grandparent.

When my grandfather died, my son (who was 8 at the time) and I went to WA. My hubby couldn't go. So, he talked with my brother and asked him to administer any swats that were needed. My brother agreed. He had to spank him only once. It broke both my son's and my brother's hearts that it was necessary...and they have been extremely close ever since.

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Chastening is punishment...

What makes you define "chastening" as "punishment?" I strongly disagree that God "punishes" us for our sin. Christ took all of the punishment for our sin on Himself on the cross. Punishment means a consequence imposed as a "payment" for wrongdoing. By definition (and etymology), punishment is purely punitive. It's like paying a fine for a crime. It is not part of a discipleship-type relationship; it is a cold transaction between two parties that do not have a relationship with each other. Like: do the crime, do the time, sentence handed down, free to go when payment is fulfilled, end of story. That's punishment, not chastening. Chastening implies an ongoing relationship, negative consequences imposed for the purposes of changing the wrongdoer's heart, not just for getting him to "pay" for what he did, or understand why it was wrong, or make him want to avoid doing it in the future only because he is afraid of experiencing the punishment again. Punishment appeals to fear; chastening appeals to love.

As I said (and I know you agree with this!!), the hubby makes decisions for his own family - and if your hubby doesn't want anyone else spanking your kids but the two of you, that is certainly his right!!! And I would not advocate that just anyone could spank, either! I think only those who are in a position of authority given by the father should be - babysitter (I'm not talking the 12 year old who has the child for an hour and a half...I mean someone who provides daycare), principal or teacher who is designated for such, grandparent.

You're right; I do agree that the husband/father makes decisions for his own family. It's not that my hubby doesn't want anyone else spanking; it is that we aren't sure that spankings should (biblically) be given by anyone who is not in an ongoing discipleship relationship with our kids. We don't think it is appropriate to view spanking as a punishment. I don't want my children to think that when I spank them, they are "paying for" their wrongdoing.

I think that's how it is viewed (as punishment) in the case of a public or Christian school situation in which the child may never have even met the principal (or maybe has exchanged pleasantries with him once or twice), and is suddenly confronted with him wielding a paddle.

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Well, we obviously disagree on what punishment is. Punishment is not payment for wrongdoing - it is a consequence of wrong doing. We all reap what we sow - and God does chasten us in punishment when we, as His children, continue in sin. Is it payment? No - no one even hinted that it was!!! It is consequence.

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Well' date=' we obviously disagree on what punishment is. Punishment is not payment for wrongdoing - it is a consequence of wrong doing. We all reap what we sow - and God does chasten us in punishment when we, as His children, continue in sin. Is it payment? No - no one even hinted that it was!!! It is consequence.[/quote']

LuAnne, I'm just going by the definitions of the word punish, as listed below. Can you honestly say that this is what God does to us? What about Scripture? Is the word punishment ever used in the Bible to describe how our loving Father deals with His children? Or is it more descriptive of how He deals with unrepentant sinners?



Contrast the definitions of punishment with the definitions of chasten (below):


Chastening has a purpose other than inflicting a penalty. Its focus is on changing the heart, not merely on altering outward behavior. The type of corporal punishment imposed in schools is focused on behavior, not spiritual/moral/heart development. It (punishment) appeals to fear, not love (as chastening does).

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When someone shows me a verse from the Scriptures that gives direction to parents to allow someone other than they to carry out a spanking on their children or where God says that someone other than the parent will answer for their child's upbringing; then I will agree with it.

I have never seen that in the Scriptures, therefore to me it is against God to do such. Admittedly, I could have missed that in the Scriptures, therefore am open to correction.

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When someone shows me a verse from the Scriptures that gives direction to parents to allow someone other than they to carry out a spanking on their children or where God says that someone other than the parent will answer for their child's upbringing; then I will agree with it.

Are you saying that parents can never delegate their authority to, say, a Sunday school teacher, or babysitter, or family member, etc.? Scripture doesn't say they can. When it comes down to it, the Scripture never specifically tells mothers to spank. Is the silence of Scripture always the same thing as prohibition? If it is, then you are in disobedience every time you leave your child with anyone else. IOW, you'd have to be with your child bodily 24/7.

I have never seen that in the Scriptures, therefore to me it is against God to do such. Admittedly, I could have missed that in the Scriptures, therefore am open to correction.


My objection to the use of "corporal punishment" in schools has more to do with the purpose of spanking than with your reasoning here. Biblically, spanking is to be used for chastening, within a discipleship context, not for punishment.

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And then there's this definition:

In operant conditioning, a consequence to a behavior in which something is added to or removed from the situation to make the behavior less likely


I guess it depends on where you look for meanings of words. :Green

trc - I'll throw it back at you: is there any scripture that forbids parents from delegating authority to spank?
The father is the head of the home, and he decides who spanks his kids.

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Huge difference in asking someone to oversee the well being of your child and asking/trusting them to know where to draw the line in how hard to spank (hit) them, etc..........

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