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Paul Chappell - 12 Myths Of Pastoral Leadership


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While I appreciate you turning to scripture, it doesn't really answer my question. Should we consider ALL who wish to speak, prophets? Do we just trust that the Lord is directing someone to speak, if he wants to speak? Or is this where the judging occurs, and if they are found wanting, they don't speak again?

Again again, who is the 'other' who is to judge? Sounds suspiciously like someone with some authority to judge? Like maybe someone in a position of leadership, like James when he made his judgment? But can this be, if no one man is over the others in position?

2 or 3, of the all who may prophesy, per assembly, at any one assembling, prophesy. The other are commanded to judge.

1Co 14:29-30
29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.
30 If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace.

Verse 30 answers both of those concerns, to me, Bro. Mike.

The one who's turn it is to prophesy, is judged of every other prophet.
There is to be no arguing back and forth, but rather when one is done, it is another's turn, and he may address any judgement he has in his turn.

It is a system of checks and balances within the church, lest one be exalted to think more highly of himself than he ought.

I rejoice at God's leading, in your life and church.

Anishinaabe

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What is a pastor?

Anishinaabe

Pastor: (Per Strong's)
  1. a herdsman, esp. a shepherd
  2. in the parable, he to whose care and control others have committed themselves, and whose precepts they follow

  3. metaph.
  4. the presiding officer, manager, director, of any assembly: so of Christ the Head of the church

    1. of the overseers of the Christian assemblies

    2. of kings and princes

Basically it carries the same meaning as used in Hebrew, tho in the hebrew it also denotes the actual pasture, where the feeding takes place, so it is more or less indistingushable between the feeding place and the one who takse them to feed and cares for them.

 

It seems pretty clear that the office of a pastor is one of leading a flock. It is sad that there are so many that want to disregard it.

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One of the things I find interesting, is that the word 'church', from, as we all know, the Greek ekklesia Is a word that also denotes a public gathering convened, or the assembly of Israelites. Whenever the Israelites were assembled, offically, there was a clear head. There may have been a body of rulers in various positions, like leaders of hundreds and leaders of thousands., even leaders of tens, yet there was always one clear leader of them all-(ie, Moses for the 'church in the wilderness').

 

If a meeting of citizens of an area is convened, it may be for a purpose of obtaining information or ideas from all involved, but there woulkd always be one in overall charge.

 

So, the churches, as we are today, should have one overall in a leadership position, whether we use the term pastor or bishop, et al, though there are also those who have other leadership under them, and of course, Christ as THE Head, and His word as law.

 

Now, as I spoke earlier, it has been on my heart to do this where the various men, (mature men with some understanding of biblical things) are open to speak at the meeting, rather than just myself giving a long message. We did that last night. And it went well for a first meeting, had good participation, and it was orderly and neat, and the topics all seemed to follow a basic line. BUT, I oversaw the meeting, helped along the conversation when it slowed, and brought it to a close. Someone needs to be in some sort of leadership/overseer position to keep things decent and in orderm, and this was my job. Not that someone else couldn't do it, but there needs to be someone. As pastor, I am it: its my duty to lead to pasture, and then allow them to feed, while protecting them from the wolves of error.

 

And of course, if word goes out that we are doing this, opening the floor to many to speak, I have little doubt that there will be those who will bring false doctrine and it will by my job as the shepherd/pastor to protect the flock. That's what a shepherd does. Thus the name of the gift, and the subsequent recognized  position.

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Pastor: (Per Strong's)


  • a herdsman, esp. a shepherd

  • in the parable, he to whose care and control others have committed themselves, and whose precepts they follow

  • metaph.

  • the presiding officer, manager, director, of any assembly: so of Christ the Head of the church

  • of the overseers of the Christian assemblies

  • of kings and princes
Basically it carries the same meaning as used in Hebrew, tho in the hebrew it also denotes the actual pasture, where the feeding takes place, so it is more or less indistingushable between the feeding place and the one who takse them to feed and cares for them.

It seems pretty clear that the office of a pastor is one of leading a flock. It is sad that there are so many that want to disregard it.
Feeding a flock, when it is your turn to prophesy, leading the sheep to the green grass in the pasture, is a pastor's job. A teacher only differs, in that he may teach generically, lines and precepts, the building blocks of edification. Neither is part of polity, or an office.
There are 2 offices, the first one having ended when the last eyewitness of the risen Christ died:
Bishop
Deacon.
Bishops are over bishopricks, or divisions of oversight. There is no mention of, much less mandate for a church to have a single head bishop. To do so, is blasphemy, as Christ is the head of the church, and the Bishop of our souls.
All of the evangelists, pastors and teachers, and bishops together make up the presbytery, or "elders".

What is sad, is how churches keep the men in their church retarded, never allowing them to prophesy, or take responsibility as an elder.

What is sad, is teaching that there are only some who are called to minister.

What is sad, is Christians stagnating.

What is sad, is the warnings in Revelation 2 and 3 went unheeded for 1700 years, for the most part.
Or dispensationalism turned the teachings on their ear.

What is sad is how many swear that they can swallow the Koine Greek camel, yet choke to death on the gnats of three words left untranslated in the NT:
Baptism
Presbytery
Nicolaitans

Anishinaabe

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One of the things I find interesting, is that the word 'church', from, as we all know, the Greek ekklesia Is a word that also denotes a public gathering convened, or the assembly of Israelites. Whenever the Israelites were assembled, offically, there was a clear head. There may have been a body of rulers in various positions, like leaders of hundreds and leaders of thousands., even leaders of tens, yet there was always one clear leader of them all-(ie, Moses for the 'church in the wilderness').

If a meeting of citizens of an area is convened, it may be for a purpose of obtaining information or ideas from all involved, but there woulkd always be one in overall charge.

So, the churches, as we are today, should have one overall in a leadership position, whether we use the term pastor or bishop, et al, though there are also those who have other leadership under them, and of course, Christ as THE Head, and His word as law.

Now, as I spoke earlier, it has been on my heart to do this where the various men, (mature men with some understanding of biblical things) are open to speak at the meeting, rather than just myself giving a long message. We did that last night. And it went well for a first meeting, had good participation, and it was orderly and neat, and the topics all seemed to follow a basic line. BUT, I oversaw the meeting, helped along the conversation when it slowed, and brought it to a close. Someone needs to be in some sort of leadership/overseer position to keep things decent and in orderm, and this was my job. Not that someone else couldn't do it, but there needs to be someone. As pastor, I am it: its my duty to lead to pasture, and then allow them to feed, while protecting them from the wolves of error.

And of course, if word goes out that we are doing this, opening the floor to many to speak, I have little doubt that there will be those who will bring false doctrine and it will by my job as the shepherd/pastor to protect the flock. That's what a shepherd does. Thus the name of the gift, and the subsequent recognized position.

Why wouldn't God have given us this mandate? If He wanted us to practice this?
Yet He says: "I hate the deeds of the Nicolaitans", 200 years before The RCC was started, and we say that He was talking of Rome.
He was talking to us, like Israel, wanting a king.

Anishinaabe

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Why wouldn't God have given us this mandate? If He wanted us to practice this?
Yet He says: "I hate the deeds of the Nicolaitans", 200 years before The RCC was started, and we say that He was talking of Rome.
He was talking to us, like Israel, wanting a king.

Anishinaabe

He DID give us a mandate and its in the very verses you keep showing-he gave some apostles, (chosen by Himself), prophets, evangelists, pastors, preachers and teachers. BY your own reasoning, essentially enyone is a prophet, as you insist anyone, (men) can speak and teach in service with no one in charge. Yet teachers and prophets and pastors are all gifts-and it is up to a church to choose such people, and recognize those gifts.

 

If the position of pastor/shepherd is not one of direct leadership, say, as a shepherd would be, why use the term? It is not a nicolaitan issue as you say, unless a pastor decides he is the end-all, be-all of absolute authority, (as in, no one tells ME what to do! I'm the PASTOR! and we know it does happen, and it is always wrong). A Nicolatitan is a concuorer of the people, and a pastor, being elected and subject to and responsible to and a servant of the people, does not fit that definition.

 

At one time, Paul and other apostles chose and ordained pastors, etc-then they passed it on to others to do, (Paul to Titus), but we have no more Apostles to do such. Paul spoke of the gift received by laying on of hands of the presbetery-that would be no different than a church voting for a pastor, and the elders ordaining him into position. I was ordained by the laying on of hands by the elders of my church-where is the difference?

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He DID give us a mandate and its in the very verses you keep showing-he gave some apostles, (chosen by Himself), prophets, evangelists, pastors, preachers and teachers. BY your own reasoning, essentially enyone is a prophet, as you insist anyone, (men) can speak and teach in service with no one in charge. Yet teachers and prophets and pastors are all gifts-and it is up to a church to choose such people, and recognize those gifts.

If the position of pastor/shepherd is not one of direct leadership, say, as a shepherd would be, why use the term? It is not a nicolaitan issue as you say, unless a pastor decides he is the end-all, be-all of absolute authority, (as in, no one tells ME what to do! I'm the PASTOR! and we know it does happen, and it is always wrong). A Nicolatitan is a concuorer of the people, and a pastor, being elected and subject to and responsible to and a servant of the people, does not fit that definition.

At one time, Paul and other apostles chose and ordained pastors, etc-then they passed it on to others to do, (Paul to Titus), but we have no more Apostles to do such. Paul spoke of the gift received by laying on of hands of the presbetery-that would be no different than a church voting for a pastor, and the elders ordaining him into position. I was ordained by the laying on of hands by the elders of my church-where is the difference?

Show me a reference that gives a mandate to annoint a single leader of a church.
There isnt one.

There are several gifts mentioned in those verses, no system of leadership.
The elders rule is mentioned 5 times.

Ready, set, go.

Anishinaabe

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Show me a reference that gives a mandate to annoint a single leader of a church.
There isnt one.

There are several gifts mentioned in those verses, no system of leadership.
The elders rule is mentioned 5 times.

Ready, set, go.

Anishinaabe

If none is mentioned, would we not then have liberty? We know there is leadership, but with all that is written, there is no order, no specifics, no system, as you say, for or against a leader with other leaders under them.

 

But we have a Bible full of examples, from Moses, then prophets like Samuel, the High priests, James the obvious leader of the Apostles, etc. The example time and again is of a leader, often with leaders under them. And who is to say there can't be a single elder? Or an elder over other elders? Or a bishop, (overseer) over elders?

 

By the way, James was the leader in the church in Jerusalem.

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Prophet1 you asked ''what is a Pastor''

 

Eph 4:11 And he gave some , apostles and some prophets, and some Pastors and teachers.

 This verse identifies some of the spiritual gifts given to the church. these are God given abilities enabling some Christians to function as apostles ,some as prophets,some as evangelist, and others in the role of pastor- teachers. the Greek construction for the last mention should be rendered pastors-teachers. this indicates that a pastor -teacher has a dual function. he pastors in overseeing his parishioners' spiritual lives and he teaches by instructing them in the word.

 

The pastor who shepherds today's Church also fulfills the New Testament role as overseer and is responsible to God for the spiritual welfare of the Church, when Christ returns he will judge and reward these pastors according to their faithfulness in leading the Church to accomplish Gods will, 

 

There are different titles for the New Testament pastor, the title bishop emphasizes the administrative function of the office.

the word pastor emphasizes the responsibility of caring for the Church ,as a shepherd cares for his sheep .the word preacher emphasizes the ministry of publicly proclaiming Gods word. the title teacher emphasizes that the pastor should be apt to teach.

The pastor is also called a servant , reminding him that he is to minister to others, and he is a steward, managing the property of others ( the Church of God).

Timothy and Titus were pastors of Churches started by Paul, who wrote Pastoral Epistles to them and if we study these epistles we will have a better understanding of the word of God concerning His Pastors, deacons and elders of the New Testament Church today.

 

There is a lot more scripture in reference to the pastor but I'll stop here because I believe I've covered enough to answer your question. 

 

Christians should be supportive of their pastors  ,as he attempts to fulfill his biblical ministry, God Bless my friend 

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