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Do You Believe There Was Not Rain Before The Flood Of Noah?

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  1. 1. Do you believe there was no rain before the Flood of Noah?

    • Yes
      22
    • No
      9


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Agreed.  The only thing that would lead me to make an "assumption" of rain before the flood would be the presence of "Rivers" such as the river leading from Eden.  I find it difficult to picture a river so large it splits into 4 head ways, forming from merely ground mist.  How would ground mist create such a great runoff of water?  I can allow though for the possibility of the waters source for the river coming from "the fountains of the deep" which were also mentioned as being "broken up" during the flood.  This could allow rivers formed from underground water sources and not rain.  

 

This issue is a tug of war for me, it is very slippery.  Every time I think I have my opinion nailed down on one side or the other, it slips between my fingers to the other side. 

 

However, I am very cautious about forming doctrines over things NOT mentioned in the Bible.  I have seen a few, even on OB, who take strong doctrinal stands not on that the bible says, but what it does not say.

 

Bro. Garry

2B, I find it odd that you who live in Oregon a state that has several rivers that come out of the ground, including but not limited to, Metolius river, Deschutes river, Fall river which all come out of the ground . . .  full grown rivers.  

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The scripture says there wasn't a man to till the earth. That is plain to see.

I wasn't meaning to say the scripture said "since there was no man to till the earth".

 

Sorry for any confusion or implication there.

 

Yes, I understand GP. But you even took the order of events out of order. It said that God had not caused it to rain first, then the contextual order says "and" there was not a man to till the ground. I see this as a simple recount of what God did. I don't see where no man to till the ground would have been a reason for it not raining.

 

I guess I see these events as unrelated happenings, no one happening "because" of any other. Of course in the end we still really don't know simply because God did not choose to reveal it.

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Yes, I understand GP. But you even took the order of events out of order. It said that God had not caused it to rain first, then the contextual order says "and" there was not a man to till the ground. I see this as a simple recount of what God did. I don't see where no man to till the ground would have been a reason for it not raining.

 

I guess I see these events as unrelated happenings, no one happening "because" of any other. Of course in the end we still really don't know simply because God did not choose to reveal it.

 

I see.

 

Yet when we make a list of needs and tell someone those needs, by listing out "I need this, and this, and this..."

Is the word and not a continuation of a thought or list?

 

I guess it's just in how you perceive the subject.

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Contextually, the verse says that the Lord 'had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground." I think this is just two unrelated factual statements. If the first was because of the second, then grammatically the conjunctive 'for' should have been used. As it was not, I don't think we can pull a doctrine out of this verse that is (a) not mentioned and would ( B) require a complete reorganization of the hydrological cycle (which would be a significant natural event that is also not mentioned).   

 

I am also of the 'opinion' that since our 'rules of grammar' didn't exist til much later than the 1611, that you can't 'rule' the text by them.

It just doesn't work.

 

But that is my opinion, and that is what I mean. (and, in that sentence, being a continuation of the same subject)
 

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On 2/18/2014 at 1:49 PM, AVBibleBeliever said:

Please give an answer to the question that best fit your poll answer.

Why do you believe there was no rain before the flood of Noah?

Because there was no rainbow until after the flood had abated since the rainbow served as a reminder of a promise that God would not destroy the earth again with a world wide flood.

I believe that the impact craters on the moon and all the ones known on the earth, happened at the time of the flood as that would cause the moon to start moving away from the earth & the fountains of the deep to rise up.

Do not the moon govern the tides?  So as there was a mist watering the whole earth, the meteorite impacts on the moon, the gravitional pull as a result of the moon moving away from the earth would lead the mist on the earth to condense to form rain clouds to rain for the first time on earth as well as tides to rise around that one land continent with tsunamis as a result of meteorites hitting the earth.

The formation of the mid Atlantic Ridge which is underwater today was where the fountains of the deep rose up from.  That means the Atlantic Ocean was a region that made up the one land continent before it began to divide itself in the days of Peleg in the Bible by dropping below sea level.

Underwater archeological evidence does show structures underwater in the Atlantic region.  Atlantis has been found as rumors of it just sinking in the ocean can be confirmed.

The cavity left vacant when the fountains of the deep was forced up is why eventually, the land collapsed.

Scientists has discovered an underground ocean near the earth core as I can see the evidence of the run off of the water from the great flood over USA, running towards China's underwater Mariana trench in creating the Grand Canyon as it does fuel the imagination.

But basically, I believe the whole point of the rainbow was testifying that there was no rain before the flood.

Just because there was some men around to till the ground, it does not mean there was enough men to do the job well.  As the population grew, the earth still needed that mist to water the whole earth.

But the flood and the factors that caused it is why it rained for the first time & since then, bringing about the rainbow set by the Lord as a reminder of a promise to the people that He would not flood the earth like that again.

What brings about a rainbow?  Rain on a sunny day.  Sounds like something God has ordained after the flood.

 

 

 

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Hebrews 11:7 is very clear, "By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became the heir of the righteousness which is by faith."

"... of things not seen as yet..." is a clear reference to rain.  Nobody, including Noah, had seen any rain. All they saw was the mist. Genesis 2:5 and 6, "And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground. But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground."

"... and watered the whole face of the ground." The reference to Genesis 2:5 and 6 is to the whole face of the earth: the whole planet. Even when Adam, and then Cain who tilled the ground (Genesis 4:2), could not have tilled the whole earth or planet. In Genesis 8:9 we find another reference that interprets what, "and watered the whole face of the ground" means: it means the whole earth.

From the time of Adam and Eve in the Garden up to the time of the flood, a mist covered the whole earth, the entire planet, to water the grass, the herbs, the trees of the forest of the whole earth.

Up to the time of Noah, man did not know what rain was. Please re-read Hebrews 11:7 and the story of the flood very carefully. Noah believed God and what He would do due to the corruption in the earth; no where in the scripture does it mention that Noah understood everything.

Furthermore, when Noah made the Ark the scriptures are very clear, "Make thee an ark of gopher wood; rooms shalt thou make in the ark, and shalt pitch it within and without with pitch." The whole Ark, including the top wooden structure was sealed with pitch. It does not say, or even hint, that only the sides and bottom of the Ark was sealed with pitch; it says, "... within and without..." this includes the top.

The only opening on the top of the Ark was a window; a window which only a small bird and a part of a man's body, the hand, could reach out. "And he sent forth a raven, which went forth to and fro, until the waters were dried up from off the earth. ... But the dove found no rest for the sole of her foot, and she returned unto him into the ark, for the waters were on the face of the whole earth: then he put forth his hand, and took her, and pulled him into the ark." Genesis 8:6 and 9

"Thus did Noah; according to all that God commanded him, so did he." Genesis 6:22

Noah feared God, believed God, and acted on his belief.

Alan

 

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Add to this that rainbows are easily seen in a water mist.

Try this: get a pump spray bottle and fill it with water, then spray that water mist while looking at a light - if you get the angles right, you see a rainbow in the water mist.

God changed things - not sure what and how - so that the rainbow would show to mark His promise. But if things worked before the flood exactly as they do now, the mist would have shown a rainbow.

Tidal effect of the moon, meteors, etc is pure speculation with no inference in the Bible.

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9 hours ago, DaveW said:

Add to this that rainbows are easily seen in a water mist.

Try this: get a pump spray bottle and fill it with water, then spray that water mist while looking at a light - if you get the angles right, you see a rainbow in the water mist.

God changed things - not sure what and how - so that the rainbow would show to mark His promise. But if things worked before the flood exactly as they do now, the mist would have shown a rainbow.

Tidal effect of the moon, meteors, etc is pure speculation with no inference in the Bible.

Unless there was indeed, as some believe, a covering around the earth, blocking a certain amount of both light and radiation from the sun, which may not have made a rainbow possible. But I don't understand enough about the physics of the things to say that I absolutely believe it, but its possible. I am undecided on the subject, however and will otherwise not make comment yea or may.

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Gen 2:10 And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads. "Rivers" depend on gravity to work, therefore they have a source which must be fed by precipitation. Some, like the Amazon begin with glaciers produced by snow (precipitation in the cold) but then they also depend on the rainforest. Rivers like the Nile and Congo are primarily from rain. The Tigris and Euphrates, however seem to begin in the mountains so would appear to be at least partially glacier-fed. I don't know; it's a hard call. Hebrews 11:7 says "By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith. So that would indicate there was no rain; at least not any flooding but then, normal rivers DO flood every year making flooding something "seen as yet". Maybe this is one we will have to ask the Lord one day.

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4 hours ago, Ukulelemike said:

Unless there was indeed, as some believe, a covering around the earth, blocking a certain amount of both light and radiation from the sun, which may not have made a rainbow possible. But I don't understand enough about the physics of the things to say that I absolutely believe it, but its possible. I am undecided on the subject, however and will otherwise not make comment yea or may.

Yep, rainbows are formed by light refracting differentially through water suspended in the air, and are dependent upon the correct density of water, distance from the viewer,  angle between the viewer and the sun, and intensity of the sunlight.

The most obvious thought is that there was some sort of barrier of high level cloud thst restricted the intensity of the sun, but we are told in Gen 1

14  And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

The stars would be inlikely to be seen in the case of a cloud barrier dense enough to restrict sunlight from casting a rainbow, and their purpose as above would then be irrelevant. 

But whatever the case, God changed something so that the mist before the flood did not cast a rainbow - at least not a rainbow in the sky. ........

It doesn't actually say no rainbow at all, but the bow cast in the sky or in the clouds........

 

It gets more and more interesting. .........

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5 hours ago, DaveW said:

Yep, rainbows are formed by light refracting differentially through water suspended in the air, and are dependent upon the correct density of water, distance from the viewer,  angle between the viewer and the sun, and intensity of the sunlight.

The most obvious thought is that there was some sort of barrier of high level cloud thst restricted the intensity of the sun, but we are told in Gen 1

14  And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

The stars would be inlikely to be seen in the case of a cloud barrier dense enough to restrict sunlight from casting a rainbow, and their purpose as above would then be irrelevant. 

But whatever the case, God changed something so that the mist before the flood did not cast a rainbow - at least not a rainbow in the sky. ........

It doesn't actually say no rainbow at all, but the bow cast in the sky or in the clouds........

 

It gets more and more interesting. .........

Well I was thinking more of ice-it has been theorized that there as like a latticework of ice, maybe a couple feet thick, who knows, covering the earth, that blocked much of the harmful radiation and accounted for the much longer lives/ It is thought that this broke when the windows of heaven were opened and caused at least part of the rain. The fellow from the Glen Rose creation ministry organization, his name escapes me, did an experiment many years back, and made a small biosphere where he adjusted the conditions to match what he thought it might have been like, and apparently the animals grew larger and he had some venomous snakes, and the proteins in the venom changed to where it was not venomous anymore. I don't remember the particulars it was years back that I saw it.

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19 hours ago, Ukulelemike said:

Well I was thinking more of ice-it has been theorized that there as like a latticework of ice, maybe a couple feet thick, who knows, covering the earth, that blocked much of the harmful radiation and accounted for the much longer lives/ It is thought that this broke when the windows of heaven were opened and caused at least part of the rain. The fellow from the Glen Rose creation ministry organization, his name escapes me, did an experiment many years back, and made a small biosphere where he adjusted the conditions to match what he thought it might have been like, and apparently the animals grew larger and he had some venomous snakes, and the proteins in the venom changed to where it was not venomous anymore. I don't remember the particulars it was years back that I saw it.

Very interesting.

The experiment your mentioned was called, "Pre-Flood Biosphere." From what I could find out that video is not available. Creation Evidence Museum of Glen Rose, Texas, is currently planning a larger project called, "Hyperbaric Bioshpere." Here is the link: "http://www.creationevidence.org/displays/hyperbaric_biosphere.php

In the following link (biosphere video # 2), the director of the Museum, Carl Baugh, mentions the previous, "Pre-Flood Biosphere," experiments: http://www.creationevidence.org/media/oldarch_vid.php

Alan

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On ‎7‎/‎1‎/‎2016 at 5:05 PM, Alan said:

Very interesting.

The experiment your mentioned was called, "Pre-Flood Biosphere." From what I could find out that video is not available. Creation Evidence Museum of Glen Rose, Texas, is currently planning a larger project called, "Hyperbaric Bioshpere." Here is the link: "http://www.creationevidence.org/displays/hyperbaric_biosphere.php

In the following link (biosphere video # 2), the director of the Museum, Carl Baugh, mentions the previous, "Pre-Flood Biosphere," experiments: http://www.creationevidence.org/media/oldarch_vid.php

Alan

Yes I watched a video that showed it, but I can't find it anymore-not sure what that might say, but if he was not honest about it, as some have charged him, I don't see him doing a larger one. It was back in the 90's when I saw it. It was the first I'd ever seen on Creation Science and on the Paluxy footprints.

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