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How Old Is The Earth

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

The sons of God could not have been created before the first day of creation. If they had been, then Exodus 20:11 is a lie.

Exodus 20:11 (KJV) For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

The sons of God had to have been created during the six day period of the creation.

And then, there is the possibility that "sons of God" is not speaking of angels at all. I find no verse in the entire Word of God that specifically says angels were sons of God.

How about one that specifically says that no angel is a son of God?

Heb 1:5
5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

Heb 1:13-14
13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

Angels are sent forth to mnister to the sons of God, the heirs of salvation, joint-heirs with Christ.
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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Unless you are suggesting that angels are not created beings, I fail to see the relevance.

Maybe you ought to try to explain your point further.

The relevance is that the sons of God are tied to Time. The angels are created in eternity, where time doesn't exist.

And God here separates any possible cross reference.
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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

How about this? Gen 4:26 26 And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos:then began men to call upon the name of the Lord. Rom 10:13 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. Jn 1:12-13 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. How about JOB was referring to Christ? You know, since the Earth isn't a square building, set on a foundation, with a laid cornerstone. JOB 38:4-9 4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. 5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it? 6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; 7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy? Isa 28:16 16 Therefore thus saith the Lord God, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.

Edited by prophet1
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The relevance is that the sons of God are tied to Time. The angels are created in eternity, where time doesn't exist.

And God here separates any possible cross reference.

I disagree.  Exodus tells us that everything in Heaven, Earth, and the seas was created within a six-day period of time.

The Bible clearly tells us the angels are in Heaven.  Therefore, angels were created within that six day period of time.

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

God does not reveal much to us about what is in his abode or as Paul called it the third heaven.  To clarify God does not reveal much about what is in eternity, or from everlasting, nor is there anything revealed of eternity after Rev 22.  Very few thigs are revealed about what took place from the possessed me in Proverbs 8:22 and the before his works of Old.  Which I believe would be a reference to the six day work of God.  Because before there was an established time qualification which was created in Gen 1:3, it was eternity or from everlasting which is not understandable to us in any way.

 

Exodus 20:11 is not talking about the abode of God (also known as heaven) but about the two heavens created below the firmament for it is a direct cross reference to the six day work of God outlined in Gen 1:3-31.  Day one does not start until the division of the light from Darkness.  Up until this time Genesis 1:2 no darkness existed.  For there is no darkness in God.  I believe darkness happened after the original earth, depth, and fountains abounding with water was created in Prov 8 and Gen 1:1 and  before Genesis 1:2.  And that that Darkness was a result of a judgement on Lucifer in which he was cast out of what we know as the third heaven

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The relevance is that the sons of God are tied to Time. The angels are created in eternity, where time doesn't exist.

And God here separates any possible cross reference.

Bible references for "the angels are created in eternity..." please.

 

Anything made that was made seems pretty clear to me......

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Bible references for "the angels are created in eternity..." please.

 

Anything made that was made seems pretty clear to me......

Except that there is no verses that tells when Angels Arch Angels, Cherubims and Seraphim were created, except you change the word of God and make hosts of them angels instead of the Stars in Gen2:1 (see below) and you claim that is the time God created angles you would be wrong.  Even the throne found in Ezk 1 and 10 are not mentioned when that throne was created.  I believe it is because those things were created in the abode of God, the third heaven, before his six day work in genesis :3-31.

 

I have looked and searched the scriptures for when these things were created, in the end nothing made in the "from everlasting" meaning eternity past, their creation is not found in the Bible.  Now Lucifer, the Arch angels, Angels, Cherubims (of which Lucifer was an anointed cherub), and Seraphim, the throne of God (sen in Ezk 1 and 10), or the abode of God, the third heaven are all mentioned in the Bible for our understanding of those things in which they are mentioned.

 

I believe that is why in Proverbs 8:24 it says there were "no depths".  there were no depths. which mean there were more than one depth.  currently we call the third division of dept it deep space or the firmament.  So it is before there was a firmament which contains the Darkness and our known universe. the abode of God is the beginning when he "Possessed me" of Prov 8:22 was prOBably limited in volume but we would not know or understand what that volume or space is, we know it is a whole lot bigger than our firmament. 

 

So in the first beginning was God and he possessed him (his son, the wisdom of God) before his works of old, he was setup from everlasting (a time quality we know nothing about in reality yet) and this setting up as it looks here was before there was ever an earth, a depth to the abode of God, the third heaven as Paul called it, and fountains abounding with waters Proverbs 8:22-24.

 

So, as close as anyone can guess to the time period in which the throne, the angles, archangels, cherubims, seraphim and the depth of God's abode was created, it was sometime before Genesis 1:2.  If we say they were the host which were finished after the earth was finished (in reference to the six day work of God) in Gen 2:1, the sons of God would have been made after the foundation of the earth were laid and not at the the time the foundations were laid and that would make JOB 38:4-7 incorrect.

Edited by AVBibleBeliever
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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist
Joh 1:3  All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 
 
Gen 2:1  Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. 
Gen 2:2  And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. 
Gen 2:3  And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made. 
 
Exo_20:11  For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. 
 
Exo_31:17  It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed. 
 

Now then, unless you are suggesting that angels are not created beings, and unless you can show a positive passage that identifies any creative work of God outside the six days of creation, then I am afraid I can not accept your proposition that God created the angels outside the time frame of the six days of God's creative work.

 

Angles are not mentioned specifically, but then again neither are ants, or sparrows, or chimpanzees - yet we know they were created in these six creation days because we know that everything that was made was made by Him, and when He had finished His creative work, He rested.

 

And you still haven't shown a verse to support your claim that angels are outside time - The above passages indicate in fact that everything that was created was created inside time - they may be eternal, but then again so is man - and we are inside time. 

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I chose to believe in a gap.  If you do not agree that is fine but let's not attack each other for my personal view.  the issue of a Gap is a non-essential issue and is of no cause to divide or hurt our relationship as Christians.

 

Gen 1:31 refutes the Gap Theory. 

 

Gen 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

 

On the sixth day God looked and saw "every thing" he had made, and behold, it was "very good". Satan and the fallen angels had not rebelled against God yet, so it is impossible there was a gap with rebellion and death between Gen 1:1 and Gen 1:2. 

 

Oops. 

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Exodus 20:11 (KJV) For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

So much for the foolish claim that God's throne was created outside of time.  His throne is in heaven, the street (not streets) of gold is in heaven, the tree of life is in heaven, New Jerusalem is in heaven. 

All things in heaven were created in the six-day creation period just as Exodus 20:11 above says.

Edited by Standing Firm In Christ
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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

 

Joh 1:3  All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 
 
Gen 2:1  Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. 
Gen 2:2  And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. 
Gen 2:3  And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made. 
 
Exo_20:11  For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. 
 
Exo_31:17  It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed. 
 

Now then, unless you are suggesting that angels are not created beings, and unless you can show a positive passage that identifies any creative work of God outside the six days of creation, then I am afraid I can not accept your proposition that God created the angels outside the time frame of the six days of God's creative work.

 

Angles are not mentioned specifically, but then again neither are ants, or sparrows, or chimpanzees - yet we know they were created in these six creation days because we know that everything that was made was made by Him, and when He had finished His creative work, He rested.

 

And you still haven't shown a verse to support your claim that angels are outside time - The above passages indicate in fact that everything that was created was created inside time - they may be eternal, but then again so is man - and we are inside time. 

 

 Ge 1:24 ¶ And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
 Ge 1:26 ¶ And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

 Ge 1:20 ¶ And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl [that] may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
 Ge 1:21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that [it was] good.
 Ge 1:22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.
 Ge 1:26 ¶ And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
 Ge 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.


every creeping thing would include the ants, fowl would include sparrows, and beasts of the earth would include monkeys.  My friend, you are just being silly.  Or you err not knowing the scriptures.

Edited by AVBibleBeliever
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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

the reason I believe the creation time of Angles, Arch angels, Cherubim, chrerubs, Seraphim, and the throne of God are not found in our bible is because they were not created during the 6 day work.  There is a difference between made and created.  and the fact that the earth was without form and void can only be interpreted in how it is usedin scriptures which shows that something was and then laer was destroyed.

 

We are given only a limited understanding the Fall of the Anointed cherub, Lucifer because we need only understand that evil, darkness and sin were first found in him before the six day work of God in Gen 1:3-31

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And you are OBviously being just as silly when you ignore the passages that clearly say that everything that was made was made in the six days.

 

You are the one who errs not knowing the Scriptures - for it is plain.

The Angels are created beings.

Everything that was created was created in six days - start to finish.

Therefore, angels were created within the six days of creation.

That they are not specifically mentioned is irrelevant - as the ant, the sparrow and chimpanzee are all covered within the scope of the creation account, so also are the angels. It is just that their particular category is not specifically mentioned.

They are created creatures. God created everything in six literal days, start to finish. Everything that was created was created within those six days.

 

You find a gap because you want it to be there.

The passage doesn't indicate a gap.

The passage doesn't state a gap.

The passage doesn't need a gap.

The passage does not leave room for a gap.

 

Why do you need a gap, when none is indicated, stated, needed, or even allowable in the language?

 

How about some of that consistency ??????

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the reason I believe the creation time of Angles, Arch angels, Cherubim, chrerubs, Seraphim, and the throne of God are not found in our bible is because they were not created during the 6 day work.  There is a difference between made and created.  and the fact that the earth was without form and void can only be interpreted in how it is usedin scriptures which shows that something was and then laer was destroyed.

 

We are given only a limited understanding the Fall of the Anointed cherub, Lucifer because we need only understand that evil, darkness and sin were first found in him before the six day work of God in Gen 1:3-31

 

Nice theory, but that is all it is, your personal theory without a word of scripture to support it. 

 

The angels were created, we are directly told Satan was created in Ezekiel 28;

 

Eze 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
 
This has to be Satan, because he was in the garden of Eden. We are told he was perfect in his ways from the day he was created TILL iniquity was found in him. 
 
This is why Genesis 1:31 refutes the Gap Theory, because God saw "every thing he had made"  and behold, it was very good. This was the sixth day, and Satan had not rebelled yet. 
 
I think you are making a big unsupported assumption that the angels were created before everything else that was created in Genesis 1.
 
Psa 148:1 Praise ye the LORD. Praise ye the LORD from the heavens: praise him in the heights.
2 Praise ye him, all his angels: praise ye him, all his hosts.
3 Praise ye him, sun and moon: praise him, all ye stars of light.
4 Praise him, ye heavens of heavens, and ye waters that be above the heavens.
5 Let them praise the name of the LORD: for he commanded, and they were created.
6 He hath also stablished them for ever and ever: he hath made a decree which shall not pass.
7 Praise the LORD from the earth, ye dragons, and all deeps:
8 Fire, and hail; snow, and vapour; stormy wind fulfilling his word:
9 Mountains, and all hills; fruitful trees, and all cedars:
10 Beasts, and all cattle; creeping things, and flying fowl:

 

The angels are included with everything else we are told were created in Genesis 1 here, the sun, moon, stars, the heavens, the waters above the heavens, the mountains, hills, trees, beasts and cattle, creeping things, etc... 

 

These are all the things we are told were created in Genesis 1, but here the angels are included among them. This argues this is speaking of one creation event. 

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Nice theory, but that is all it is, your personal theory without a word of scripture to support it. 

 

The angels were created, we are directly told Satan was created in Ezekiel 28;

 

Eze 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
 
This has to be Satan, because he was in the garden of Eden. We are told he was perfect in his ways from the day he was created TILL iniquity was found in him. 
 
This is why Genesis 1:31 refutes the Gap Theory, because God saw "every thing he had made"  and behold, it was very good. This was the sixth day, and Satan had not rebelled yet. 
 
I think you are making a big unsupported assumption that the angels were created before everything else that was created in Genesis 1.
 
Psa 148:1 Praise ye the LORD. Praise ye the LORD from the heavens: praise him in the heights.
2 Praise ye him, all his angels: praise ye him, all his hosts.
3 Praise ye him, sun and moon: praise him, all ye stars of light.
4 Praise him, ye heavens of heavens, and ye waters that be above the heavens.
5 Let them praise the name of the LORD: for he commanded, and they were created.
6 He hath also stablished them for ever and ever: he hath made a decree which shall not pass.
7 Praise the LORD from the earth, ye dragons, and all deeps:
8 Fire, and hail; snow, and vapour; stormy wind fulfilling his word:
9 Mountains, and all hills; fruitful trees, and all cedars:
10 Beasts, and all cattle; creeping things, and flying fowl:

 

The angels are included with everything else we are told were created in Genesis 1 here, the sun, moon, stars, the heavens, the waters above the heavens, the mountains, hills, trees, beasts and cattle, creeping things, etc... 

 

These are all the things we are told were created in Genesis 1, but here the angels are included among them. This argues this is speaking of one creation event. 

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist
I disagree. Exodus tells us that everything in Heaven, Earth, and the seas was created within a six-day period of time. The Bible clearly tells us the angels are in Heaven. Therefore, angels were created within that six day period of time.
There are heavens, not just heaven. The physical Heavens were created in the first week of Time. Angels don't dwell in Time, they aren't physical, and aren't included in our physical creation. This has nothing to do with how old the physical earth is. We know how old Earth is, about 6,240 years. We dont have to cram angels into physical creation, in order to refute the Gap, the wording in Genesis plainly does that already. Heb 1:7-8 7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire. 8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever:a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. Edited by prophet1
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I can not believe that you, after all your constant spouting about biblical proof on other matters, are arguing so vehemently from silence for this matter.

All things were created in six days - not everything physical thing but everything that was made - the verses already presented show this.

You have no verses - or at least have provided no verses - to support you premise either of Angels being outside time, nor that they were created in some other event from the creation.

Bring SCRIPTURE to support these or stop.

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I can not believe that you, after all your constant spouting about biblical proof on other matters, are arguing so vehemently from silence for this matter.

All things were created in six days - not everything physical thing but everything that was made - the verses already presented show this.

You have no verses - or at least have provided no verses - to support you premise either of Angels being outside time, nor that they were created in some other event from the creation.

Bring SCRIPTURE to support these or stop.

I brought Scripture.
Spirits aren't physical.
Now read Hebrews 1 again.
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