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In Defense Of Alcohol, God's Blessing To Man


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Proverbs is a collection of literature in making right choices. They're not commandments but examples of applying wisdom with extensive use of imagery and figures of speech and a lot of the verses are unrelated. To take a verse literally or figuratively has to be weighed against other scriptures in the Bible. As I stated above in an earlier post, wine is always referred to in scripture as an intoxicant. To say that it is not when scripture refers to wine in a positive sense is creating a man-made doctrine of abstinence versus what the Bible says about overuse and abuse.


Some parts are literal, some parts are figurative - the context will indicate that - but literally or figuratively, it still shows God's attitudes and thinking on the subjects it addresses.

It is an invalid argument to say it doesn't count.
No matter what subject these books speak on, it is for our learning and growth.
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Thanks for those answers Jeff, but in the example I used of a friend and driving, HE thinks he is OK.

Is there a way to guard against this?

I am not suggesting you can't tell when enough is enough, but alcohol is a mocker, and it does sway a person's senses.
To "know when you've had enough" seems to walk a dangerous line.

This is what concerns me - I have seen men swear they are not drunk, but it is blatantly obvious to any observer they are.

Do you follow my concern?

If a line is vague (and I think some are) how do we walk in safety?

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Thanks for those answers Jeff, but in the example I used of a friend and driving, HE thinks he is OK.

Is there a way to guard against this?

I am not suggesting you can't tell when enough is enough, but alcohol is a mocker, and it does sway a person's senses.
To "know when you've had enough" seems to walk a dangerous line.

This is what concerns me - I have seen men swear they are not drunk, but it is blatantly obvious to any observer they are.

Do you follow my concern?

If a line is vague (and I think some are) how do we walk in safety?

i think it is simple Dave, a believer will not set out to be drunk because it is sin.My brothers and I know that its a gift from God and we don't want to abuse any gift God gives us. And contrary to some belief here, nobody I know isnt out to "push the envelope" to see how far we can take it. A person who drinks over time will develop a tolerance towards it to begin with so it is something that you set out to do. One drink and your not a raging drunk. I think it is disingenuous of teetotalers to judge brothers who partake to claim that we are looking to sin and that we are taking advantage of our liberties.

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Some parts are literal, some parts are figurative - the context will indicate that - but literally or figuratively, it still shows God's attitudes and thinking on the subjects it addresses.

It is an invalid argument to say it doesn't count.
No matter what subject these books speak on, it is for our learning and growth.

Nobody isnt  saying it doesnt count, but It boils down to how you interpret Scripture, some you interpret literal, laws, epistles, some are books of wisdom, Proverbs, prophecy and Psalm are interpreted differently 

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But some are tending to dismiss arguments simply because it is poetry - that is wrong.

I do appreciate your answers to this thought, I still have trouble with the line though, because I have seen plenty who say and think they can control it, but it is apparent to everyone else that they can't. (Unsaved people by the way so not a direct comparison).

I don't really think there is a satisfactory answer to where to draw the line........

For me, as a matter of my conscience and for my own safety, I would put that line at zero.
I hope you can accept that as my personal line. I would hope that as you would not expect to have my line imposed upon you, that you would allow me to stand at my line.

I will most likely leave the issue at this point.

Thanks for this last interaction - I believe it has been both cordial ( bit of a pun there! :lol: ) and profitable.

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I appreciate, that you admit it, can you show me where God says that you can only drink/consume during that time?

The application today shown that in pauls letter to the Romans, Collosians, Timothy Ephesians and Corinthians that alsohol use was wide spread and nowhere in the NT was put any limitations to it's use unless abuse till intoxication

 

That's an argument from silence, and not a particularly good one. Can you show me where God says you can't use words American's have dubbed swear words? Or where you can't molest a child? Perhaps where you can't play the lottery or go to a casino? Maybe not to smoke marijuana or opium? The problem with such an argument is that it is a legalistic stance that ignores biblical principles in favor of liberty where an issue is not explicitly addressed. Though the Bible doesn't explicitly say no one should ever drink alcohol, I can show you an overarching outline of biblical principle that says God wants the people that desire to wholly and completely follow him (which should be everybody) to abstain from it. The Bible is not like the US Constitution where everything that is not expressely limited is therefore permitted. The Bible sets forth timeless principles that should guide all aspects of life through all ages.

 

As a side note, those epistles were written to churches in societies in which alcohol was a systemic part of a social structure and pagan worship practices. It permeated their culture and those that made up the church were preconditioned by it and thus was something that needed to be addressed. You'll notice there are no mentions of alcohol, strong drink, or drunk(en/eness) in the epistle to the Hebrews, or in James which was written to the dispersed members of the original church in Jerusalem (most of them Jews), and there is only passing mention (2x wine, 1x drunk) in Matthew which was written primarly for a Jewish audience. It wasn't the pressing issue for those audiences, but it was an issue for Greek and Roman audiences.

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Because the Bible says we can.  We are not to abuse it.  Do you know the difference between moderation and overuse?  Are you telling me that every person that has ever had a glass of wine or occasional beer has become an alcoholic or drunkard?  If someone drinks one wine cooler at a BBQ is that going to make them a drunk?  Or have a glass of wine at a wedding for a toast?

 

At what point do does one cross from moderation to overuse? I do realize that alcohol affects everone differently based on height, weight, age, and food intake; but how do you know when you've crossed the line?

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And in Acts 2 the Apostles were accused on being drunk on 'new wine"

No I do not, so are you trying to say words dont mean what they say? because then you are opening a Pandora's Box

 

I'd like to make the point again that the "new wine" in Acts 2 is gluekos (not oinos), which is specifically not fermented but fresh and sweet.

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At what point do does one cross from moderation to overuse? I do realize that alcohol affects everone differently based on height, weight, age, and food intake; but how do you know when you've crossed the line?

One with common sense would know if they are being moderate or overusing to excess, having too much too often.

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I am a weak Christian because I wont drink alcoholic beverages and am offended at a Christian who does.

 

I am a spiritual dwarf compared to Jeffery and GraceSaved.

 

Forgiven me Lord for my lack of spiritual understanding and strength but I will not drink alcoholic beverages as they do because I am weak.

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You obviously reject wisdom. Therefore, by the authority of God's Holy Word, we can know your true identity.
Proverbs 1:7 (KJV) 7 The fear of the LORD [is] the beginning of knowledge: [but] fools despise wisdom and instruction.

No, I reject your teaching which is contradictory to Scripture! I have shown you passages where God calls it a blessing and is permissible, yet you still call it sin!

Let me ask you, is alcohol sin?
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Nobody isnt  saying it doesnt count, but It boils down to how you interpret Scripture, some you interpret literal, laws, epistles, some are books of wisdom, Proverbs, prophecy and Psalm are interpreted differently 

 2Peter 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
 

The AV Holy Bible is already interpreted for you all you need to do is study, rightly divide, and apply it. 

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