Members Jeffrey Posted February 12, 2014 Author Members Share Posted February 12, 2014 Like the false accusers of Luke 7, you too accuse the Lord of drinking something that the Bible does not say He drank. Jesus was, is, and always will be, the King of kings. It is not for kings to drink wine or strong drink lest they forget the law and pervert the judgment of the afflicted. Try as you might, you cannot put alcohol into the Lord's hands. Your good words and fair speeches may deceive the minds of the simple, but you'll never convince us that your sin is acceptable to God. Actually Jesus is comparing Himself to John who was under a vow, Jesus was under no such vow, so He said he was drinking, that's why yet called him a drunk, Explain to me then the same question I put to Sword yesterday concerning Romans and Colossians Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Keith Posted February 12, 2014 Members Share Posted February 12, 2014 Any concept of grace that makes us more comfortable in sinning, is NOT Biblical grace. Any time someone chooses to find ways around what God says is wrong is NOT honoring or pleasing God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GraceSaved Posted February 12, 2014 Members Share Posted February 12, 2014 Does anyone understand the fermentation process of grapes? Since there are different viewpoints on when the Bible is referring to wine as being fermented or merely grape juice, perhaps someone can start a thread on that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Keith Posted February 12, 2014 Members Share Posted February 12, 2014 Out of today's Proverb, seems to apply to this topic.... Proverbs 12:15 KJV "The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that hearkeneth unto counsel is wise." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GraceSaved Posted February 12, 2014 Members Share Posted February 12, 2014 Any concept of grace that makes us more comfortable in sinning, is NOT Biblical grace. Any time someone chooses to find ways around what God says is wrong is NOT honoring or pleasing God. Is drinking alcohol, in and of itself sin, if used in moderation? To drink or not to drink. That is the question. I would like someone to show me a scripture that says drinking alcohol is a sin. I only see scriptures that refer to drunkenness as being the sin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GraceSaved Posted February 12, 2014 Members Share Posted February 12, 2014 Out of today's Proverb, seems to apply to this topic.... Proverbs 12:15 KJV "The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that hearkeneth unto counsel is wise." This can apply to absolutely anything. A fool is someone who lacks judgment or reasoning. If a person limits themselves to one beer, isn't that applying judgment and reasoning because they know perhaps drinking more than that would cause them to become drunk? Is a person who chooses to drink alcohol in moderation a fool? Why if they are choosing to limit themselves? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Standing Firm In Christ Posted February 12, 2014 Members Share Posted February 12, 2014 Actually Jesus is comparing Himself to John who was under a vow, Jesus was under no such vow, so He said he was drinking, that's why yet called him a drunk, Explain to me then the same question I put to Sword yesterday concerning Romans and ColossiansJohn was not under a vow. You obviously need to read your Bible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members no name joe Posted February 12, 2014 Members Share Posted February 12, 2014 Does anyone understand the fermentation process of grapes? Since there are different viewpoints on when the Bible is referring to wine as being fermented or merely grape juice, perhaps someone can start a thread on that? Yes. I brew beer a few times a year and have made wine once, so LOVE the fermentation process. It is quite simple and natural, actually. For beer, sugar is extracted from grains such as wheat or barley. This is done by soaking it in warm water, around. Soaking it extracts the sugars, which are then reduced down to malt. To the malt, you add some water, and boil for about 60-90 minutes. You add your hops to add bitterness and herbal notes at different points during the boil. After the boil, you have your "wort." Which is basically unfermented beer. The liquid is packed with sugar. You lower the temperature and add yeast at the right temperature (around 70 degrees usually, depending on the type of yeast). Yeast is a substance that occurs in nature all the time. It is floating in the air. Different types of yeast can be used to produce different flavors. But you just add yeast, and then let it sit and maintain the temp around 65-70 degrees. The yeast devours the sugar, turning it into alcohol. At the end of 7 days or so, you have delicious beer, unless you did something wrong, in which case it can be quite foul (lack of keeping everything sterile is probably the culprit for a bad batch). Then you can age it to mellow the alcohol a bit. Wine is basically the same. You press grapes extracting the juice, which is full of sugars. You add yeast, and the yeast eats the sugars, turning it into alcohol. It is not decay, it is yeast eating sugar, which produces the alcohol. Decay is composing with bacteria eating the scraps. Turning sugar into alcohol actually prevents decay. That is why it was used often in the ancient world. To preserve the juice from grapes, they would ferment it. Fermenting can give it a shelf life of years. Whereas, if left as juice, it would spoil very quickly. Fermenting has been used for preserving food. Sour Kraut is a fermented food done to preserve cabbage, is one example. Beer is another. Wine is another. Now, to make hard liquor, you take you basically follow the same process to make beer. Then once fermented, you send it to a distillery to separate the alcohol from the water and other substances in the liquid. You are extracting the alcohol and concentrating it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members no name joe Posted February 12, 2014 Members Share Posted February 12, 2014 Fermentation is also done by good bacteria. Not in beer or wine, but to make yogut from milk. I make yogurt as well. If you have yogurt, you can take milk, raise to a certain temperature to kill bacteria, then lower to around 110 degrees or so. Then add a tablespoon of yogurt, and keep in an ice chest where you place jars of hot water in to maintain a very warm temperature. The good bacteria in the yogert will then eat the sugar in the milk to produce yogurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Standing Firm In Christ Posted February 12, 2014 Members Share Posted February 12, 2014 This can apply to absolutely anything. Not really. A fool is someone who lacks judgment or reasoning. A trait both you and Jeffrey have demonstrated many times in this thread. If a person limits themselves to one beer, isn't that applying judgment and reasoning because they know perhaps drinking more than that would cause them to become drunk? it is showing judgment. Unfortunately, since the Biblical instruction is to abstain from alcohol, to have even one glass is very poor judgment. Is a person who chooses to drink alcohol in moderation a fool? Fools despise instruction, while a wise man will hear. Why if they are choosing to limit themselves?Because their "limit" is one or two glasses (sometimes more) and the Bible limit is none. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GraceSaved Posted February 12, 2014 Members Share Posted February 12, 2014 Because their "limit" is one or two glasses (sometimes more) and the Bible limit is none. I asked for a scripture that says NOT to drink alcohol. I didn't ask for your opinion of me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Standing Firm In Christ Posted February 12, 2014 Members Share Posted February 12, 2014 Yes. I brew beer a few times a year and have made wine once, so LOVE the fermentation process. It is quite simple and natural, actually. For beer, sugar is extracted from grains such as wheat or barley. This is done by soaking it in warm water, around. Soaking it extracts the sugars, which are then reduced down to malt. To the malt, you add some water, and boil for about 60-90 minutes. You add your hops to add bitterness and herbal notes at different points during the boil. After the boil, you have your "wort." Which is basically unfermented beer. The liquid is packed with sugar. You lower the temperature and add yeast at the right temperature (around 70 degrees usually, depending on the type of yeast). Yeast is a substance that occurs in nature all the time. It is floating in the air. Different types of yeast can be used to produce different flavors. But you just add yeast, and then let it sit and maintain the temp around 65-70 degrees. The yeast devours the sugar, turning it into alcohol. At the end of 7 days or so, you have delicious beer, unless you did something wrong, in which case it can be quite foul (lack of keeping everything sterile is probably the culprit for a bad batch). Then you can age it to mellow the alcohol a bit. Wine is basically the same. You press grapes extracting the juice, which is full of sugars. You add yeast, and the yeast eats the sugars, turning it into alcohol. It is not decay, it is yeast eating sugar, which produces the alcohol. Decay is composing with bacteria eating the scraps. Turning sugar into alcohol actually prevents decay. That is why it was used often in the ancient world. To preserve the juice from grapes, they would ferment it. Fermenting can give it a shelf life of years. Whereas, if left as juice, it would spoil very quickly. Fermenting has been used for preserving food. Sour Kraut is a fermented food done to preserve cabbage, is one example. Beer is another. Wine is another. Now, to make hard liquor, you take you basically follow the same process to make beer. Then once fermented, you send it to a distillery to separate the alcohol from the water and other substances in the liquid. You are extracting the alcohol and concentrating it.doesn't sound "natural" to me. Man's intervention all the way through. Matthew 12:35 (KJV) A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Standing Firm In Christ Posted February 12, 2014 Members Share Posted February 12, 2014 I asked for a scripture that says NOT to drink alcohol. I didn't ask for your opinion of me. The Scripture was given many times in this thread. You've ignored it thus far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members no name joe Posted February 12, 2014 Members Share Posted February 12, 2014 doesn't sound "natural" to me. Man's intervention all the way through. Matthew 12:35 (KJV) A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things. Then neither is cooking. It is no different than making a pot of soup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TheSword Posted February 12, 2014 Members Share Posted February 12, 2014 Is drinking alcohol, in and of itself sin, if used in moderation? To drink or not to drink. That is the question. I would like someone to show me a scripture that says drinking alcohol is a sin. I only see scriptures that refer to drunkenness as being the sin. No more than you could show Scripture that says gambling, smoking marijuana, piercing your tongue, sporting a mohawk, having multiple wives, or owning a slave is explicitly sinful. They're all done based on principle and not specific command or prohibition. Not every sin is specifically listed. The Bible would infinitely longer if it did. This is why I keep going back to saying this is a legalistic statement because it's an attempt to strictly establish a rule based on letter and not principle. I don't want to drag the conversation down with a repeated point, but no one has argued against it yet. I argue that overarching biblical principle says that whether a Christian can drink a little or not, a Christian should not drink at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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