In Defense Of Alcohol, God's Blessing To Man

[GraceSaved]

If you remain in your disobedience to Romans 14 then you are not glorifying God in your drinking Alcoholic Beverages nor are you in God's will on this issue.

 

No one is shaming you but God's word is clear.

We obviously have a different opinion of what God's Word says.

[TheSword]

Legalism is imposing someone's opinion of right and wrong and expect others to follow.

 

Actually, legalism is "the adherance, or principle of strict adherance, to law or prescription, especially to the letter rather than the spirit." Technically speaking, the moderationist view is every bit as legalistic, or even more so, than the view of abstinence (depending on how each is expressed) because it says "I can do something because the Bible doesn't say I can't" even though the spirit of passages on wine and drinking is that it should be left alone.

 

"moral enforcement" or "moral imposition" would better fit your above definition.

 

Merely as a point of reflection and not necessarily a challenge to your view, if it was understood as God's opinion of right and wrong would it be bad to enforce it? I know you don't think God views alcohol negatively, but if He did (the assertion of those of us on the other side of the argument) wouldn't it be irresponsible not to tell people they shouldn't do it? We do that with murder and adultery and lieing and blasphemy don't we? I only point this out as an exhortation for both sides to be kind in admonishing one another here and understand that what we're really talking about is a disagreement on what God views is right and wrong. For those of us who believe He views drinking as wrong, it is important not to be unkind in explaining why we believe that. For those who believe He does not view drinking as wrong, it is important to realize we are not attempting to be legalistic, but to show how He does view it as wrong for the benefit of everyone and not necessarily to just be argumentative (at least this is true of me).

[TheSword]

I get what you're saying.  Why put your hand in the cookie jar?  We don't all struggle with the same temptations in life.  What may be a struggle for you may not be one for me and vice versa. 

 

Yes, sort of. Cookie jar implies what's inside is still ok to have some of. Perhaps if you add the assumption that you're allergic to nuts and the cookies have nuts in them...or whatever else is bad or dangerous for you to have. I understand we disagree on whether what can have some at all, but that's what I have in mind from my perspective and the illustration is more about flirting with sin rather than succumbing to temptation. Even if the moderationist drinker does not set out explicitly to get drunk (not really what I'm trying to argue for or against here) they are flirting with going too far and crossing the line into sin/drunkenness, even if it is unwittingly.

[Jeffrey]

Legalism?? That's a term thrown around by liberal, evangelicals, and those who don't want to heed the Bible.

Um, yeaaah! Keep telling yourself that

[no name joe]

Are you sure you want to join the band wagon with us "sipping saints"?  I've been marked, ya know.  :-)

I've been marked for many reasons on this message board.  So I'm in good company.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Yes, sort of. Cookie jar implies what's inside is still ok to have some of. Perhaps if you add the assumption that you're allergic to nuts and the cookies have nuts in them...or whatever else is bad or dangerous for you to have. I understand we disagree on whether what can have some at all, but that's what I have in mind from my perspective and the illustration is more about flirting with sin rather than succumbing to temptation. Even if the moderationist drinker does not set out explicitly to get drunk (not really what I'm trying to argue for or against here) they are flirting with going too far and crossing the line into sin/drunkenness, even if it is unwittingly.

Back in 2007, I had a discussion on another forum with a poster that insisted God gave alcohol to man to enjoy and he was in perfect control and knew what he could and could not handle. 

Shortly thereafter, he disappeared from the board for a week.  When he returned, he started a thread to apologize to the board for not being online.  His reason?  He got drunk the weekend before and was too ashamed to admit to the board that he was wrong.

He apologized to me for telling me that I was wrong in my stance.

The Bible tells us that those who think they are standing should take heed lest they fall.  I sometimes wonder if that is what it will take for many before they realize they have allowed the wine to deceive them into believing they are in control when they are not.

[GraceSaved]

Actually, legalism is "the adherance, or principle of strict adherance, to law or prescription, especially to the letter rather than the spirit." Technically speaking, the moderationist view is every bit as legalistic, or even more so, than the view of abstinence (depending on how each is expressed) because it says "I can do something because the Bible doesn't say I can't" even though the spirit of passages on wine and drinking is that it should be left alone.

 

"moral enforcement" or "moral imposition" would better fit your above definition.

 

Merely as a point of reflection and not necessarily a challenge to your view, if it was understood as God's opinion of right and wrong would it be bad to enforce it? I know you don't think God views alcohol negatively, but if He did (the assertion of those of us on the other side of the argument) wouldn't it be irresponsible not to tell people they shouldn't do it? We do that with murder and adultery and lieing and blasphemy don't we? I only point this out as an exhortation for both sides to be kind in admonishing one another here and understand that what we're really talking about is a disagreement on what God views is right and wrong. For those of us who believe He views drinking as wrong, it is important not to be unkind in explaining why we believe that. For those who believe He does not view drinking as wrong, it is important to realize we are not attempting to be legalistic, but to show how He does view it as wrong for the benefit of everyone and not necessarily to just be argumentative (at least this is true of me).

Yes.  We are here to discuss why we disagree.  But there are some on here who choose to insinuate that we are deceived, out of control, not walking with the Spirit and disobedient, etc.  Like all we do is sit and drink all the live long day.

[GraceSaved]

Back in 2007, I had a discussion on another forum with a poster that insisted God gave alcohol to man to enjoy and he was in perfect control and knew what he could and could not handle. 

Shortly thereafter, he disappeared from the board for a week.  When he returned, he started a thread to apologize to the board for not being online.  His reason?  He got drunk the weekend before and was too ashamed to admit to the board that he was wrong.

He apologized to me for telling me that I was wrong in my stance.

The Bible tells us that those who think they are standing should take heed lest they fall.  I sometimes wonder if that is what it will take for many before they realize they have allowed the wine to deceive them into believing they are in control when they are not.

I'm not him and he's not me.  I have my viewpoint based on scripture but alcohol is not a high priority on my list of things to do with my life so no one will get a report from me that I went on a drinking binge.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Let him that thinketh he stands, take heed lest he fall.

[AVBibleBeliever]

So drinking alone with God was the answer to not offend, weaken or stumble a brother. 

 

Then why start this thread if you are not going to drink alcoholic beverages in public?

 

Why publicly announce your opinion on drinking alcoholic beverages and admit to drinking alcoholic beverages if you keep it between you and God.

 

How does drinking in God's presence only glorify him?

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Psalms 2:1 (KJV)
Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?

[Jeffrey]

until they accept the truth, they have liberty to walk after the lusts of their eyes and flesh.
Of course, while they are advocating putting alcohol to their lips, they are rejecting walking in and with the Spirit of God.

Even though when the Spirit was flesh, He enjoyed His gift?

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Where does the Bible say that???

[Jeffrey]

Luke 7:33-34

[AVBibleBeliever]

Even though when the Spirit was flesh, He enjoyed His gift?

When was the Spirit flesh?  Book, Chapter and verse please?