Christians That Are Falling Easy Into This World Traps...

[Ukulelemike]

Christian liberty means we are freed with respect to such activity that is not forbidden in the Bible.

But that's such a simplistic and incomplete way of looking at it, and why Christians have an 'anything goes" attitude about their walk. In fact, many of the verses about about Christian liberty specifically have to do with being liberated from the law and traditions of Judaism: 2Cor 3:17; Gal 2:4; Gal 5:1; Gal 5:13; James 2:12, et al.

 

But otherwise, as far as things not forbidden, again, even in those we are expected to use discernment to set limitations for ourselves, (not necessarily others) in when, or if, to use our liberty.

 

For instance, meth use if not forbidden in the Bible. So, do we have liberty to use it? Well, some might say yes, however, when we consider "Al things are lawful for me but I wil not be brought under the power of any", clearly, then, such things would be beyond the bounds of what we should do.

 

Of course, there are those who would say that meth use falls under the command not to do things to destroy the temple of God, our body, and I would agree, but then, we'd better be looking carefully at EVERYTHING we put into our temples if we will follow that line of thinking, for most of what people eat today is clearly damaging to the temple, what with GMO foods, refined carbs, high fructose corn syrup, MSG, boxed foods, soda pop, energy drinks, vccinations with thimerisol, fillings with mercury. A majority of the junk put into our bodies today is damaging to it, so if we will ust go gainst things like meth and heroin and such because of the damage, we'd best be prepared to make big changes in our ;liberties; in these areas, as well.

 

As I said before, our liberties MUST be tempered by asking ourselves: Is it expedient? (will it help me in more efficiently pleasing and glorifying God, winning the lost, and NOT giving offense to the saved OR the lost-1Cor 10:31-33)? Does it edify others? Might I be brought under the power of it?

[Jeffrey]

But that's such a simplistic and incomplete way of looking at it, and why Christians have an 'anything goes" attitude about their walk. In fact, many of the verses about about Christian liberty specifically have to do with being liberated from the law and traditions of Judaism: 2Cor 3:17; Gal 2:4; Gal 5:1; Gal 5:13; James 2:12, et al.

and after traditions of men colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

 

But otherwise, as far as things not forbidden, again, even in those we are expected to use discernment to set limitations for ourselves, (not necessarily others) in when, or if, to use our liberty.

And it is up to the  individual to make that decision, it basically a Romans 14 issue

For instance, meth use if not forbidden in the Bible. So, do we have liberty to use it? Well, some might say yes, however, when we consider "Al things are lawful for me but I wil not be brought under the power of any", clearly, then, such things would be beyond the bounds of what we should do. When it has no intrinsic value .yes

 

Of course, there are those who would say that meth use falls under the command not to do things to destroy the temple of God, our body, and I would agree, but then, we'd better be looking carefully at EVERYTHING we put into our temples if we will follow that line of thinking, for most of what people eat today is clearly damaging to the temple, what with GMO foods, refined carbs, high fructose corn syrup, MSG, boxed foods, soda pop, energy drinks, vccinations with thimerisol, fillings with mercury. A majority of the junk put into our bodies today is damaging to it, so if we will ust go gainst things like meth and heroin and such because of the damage, we'd best be prepared to make big changes in our ;liberties; in these areas, as well.and some things we just cant get away from, we all dont live on a farm

 

As I said before, our liberties MUST be tempered by asking ourselves: Is it expedient? (will it help me in more efficiently pleasing and glorifying God, winning the lost, and NOT giving offense to the saved OR the lost-1Cor 10:31-33)? Does it edify others? Might I be brought under the power of it? also Christians who dont practice liberty are not to judge those who do and then claim " weaker brother" all the time to control others, because they fall into a trap also

Romans 14: Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.

2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.

3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.

4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

 

1 Tim 4: Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:

5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

[HappyChristian]

"Every man did that which was right in his own eyes..."

[Ukulelemike]

Jeffery, not arguing about it-its something each believer must decide on their own, though the advice and teaching of the word can certainly be a help.

 

One comment you made, "and some things we just cant get away from, we all dont live on a farm". Is that really a good excuse? "Sorry, Lord, I HAD to eat junk and damage the temple you placed me ini charge of, because I didn't live on a farm". There is more and more plenty of availability of better food choices, as well as great plans for small-area gardening. And maybe there is more availability to living on farms than we think, except sometimes we just don't want to give up the conveniences of city life, so we accept the necessary evils of it.  

 

However, my point was not just that-its the entire way of understanding Christian liberty, that it doesn't mean we do as we please, it means that even IN our liberties, we must be willing to consider where we must place our own boundaires on those liberties, and usually, those boundaires are from outside ourselves. Too often Christians are unwilling to do so.."Its MY liberty, MY freedom to do such and such". Great, but what about the God-given responsibilities we have to the glory of God and the edification of others and the expediencey of the gospel?  "Forget that! I'm gonna have a beer, cuz I have LIBERTY IN CHRIST!".

 

By the way, we had liberty to drink and smoke and cuss and get tattoos before we were saved. So what's the difference now?  Oh, well, now it won't send me to hell. Ah, so noew we do that which would send me to hell before I was saved, because I am safe now. Hm.

[Jeffrey]

"Every man did that which was right in his own eyes..."

What am I doing LuAnne that is sinful , but right in my own eyes?

[GraceSaved]

I haven't read that anyones said that Christian liberty means we can do as we please.  

[HappyChristian]

What am I doing LuAnne that is sinful , but right in my own eyes?

Did I say you?  I didn't say anyone in particular.  I quoted a verse from the Bible.  Considering that I don't know you in the least bit, I can't say what you are doing that is sinful yet right in your own eyes. I can surmise from things you say, but that doesn't really mean anything.

 

Christianity today is in that place, where every man is doing that which is right in their own eyes.  *shrugs* Even you say so, actually, when you say that "it's up to the individual..." claiming Rom. 14.  While I would agree that we all must come to the realization of what is right and what is wrong, there are biblical principles which are not wrong to teach others to follow.  And those principles cover a multitude of activities, thoughts, actions.  But too many people today say they don't have to follow them if they don't want to (or feel convicted, or led, or whatever terminology).

 

Don't be so quick to take something personal, unless it is actually obviously directed at you (as in, I say your name...). It was never meant that way. 

[Ukulelemike]

I haven't read that anyones said that Christian liberty means we can do as we please.  

Not really here, but more a general overview of modern American "Churchianity", with their brewery bible studies and Beer and Hymns get-togethers, and such things. "Christian" tattoos, and this sort of thing.

[DaveW]

Christian liberty is the freedom to do that which honours the Lord.

This something that is unique to the saved man.

[Jeffrey]

Jeffery, not arguing about it-its something each believer must decide on their own, though the advice and teaching of the word can certainly be a help.

 

One comment you made, "and some things we just cant get away from, we all dont live on a farm". Is that really a good excuse? "Sorry, Lord, I HAD to eat junk and damage the temple you placed me ini charge of, because I didn't live on a farm". There is more and more plenty of availability of better food choices, as well as great plans for small-area gardening. And maybe there is more availability to living on farms than we think, except sometimes we just don't want to give up the conveniences of city life, so we accept the necessary evils of it.

 

  Jesus said its not what goes into a man that defiles him but what comes out of him

 

However, my point was not just that-its the entire way of understanding Christian liberty, that it doesn't mean we do as we please, it means that even IN our liberties, we must be willing to consider where we must place our own boundaires on those liberties, and usually, those boundaires are from outside ourselves. Too often Christians are unwilling to do so.."Its MY liberty, MY freedom to do such and such". Great, but what about the God-given responsibilities we have to the glory of God and the edification of others and the expediencey of the gospel?  "Forget that! I'm gonna have a beer, cuz I have LIBERTY IN CHRIST!".

 

We can drink beer because it is permissible. (see Deut 14:26) The real reason fundamentalist don't like liberty is because they don't believe it. Fundamentalist think that fellow believers are looking for new ways to sin, when the fact is that we are free from man made laws as well

 

By the way, we had liberty to drink and smoke and cuss and get tattoos before we were saved. So what's the difference now?  Oh, well, now it won't send me to hell. Ah, so noew we do that which would send me to hell before I was saved, because I am safe now. Hm.

 

we can drink and smoke now if we want, and tats for that matter, we are no longer under the law, but Fundamentalist wishes we were

[Jeffrey]

Christian liberty is the freedom to do that which honours the Lord.

This something that is unique to the saved man.

Did you notice the word lust in Deut 14:26

[Ukulelemike]

 

 

So your idea of liberty is to do all the things you were free to do unsaved? What ever happened to "be ye transformed"? How is that a 'new creature"? I guess your kind of liberty trumps that.  So meth, opium, heroin, they'er okay too, since the Bible doesn't condemn them? Smoke a little doobie, snack on some mushrooms, lick some toads, all part of liberty? where do you draw a line? Who is your liberty for, anyways? where do you draw a line? as  lomg as its the law of the land, its okay? So if pedophilia becomes lawful, since the Bible doesn't say a grown man can't marry a 12 year old, then its all cool, part of liberty?

 

 

"All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any."

 

 

"All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not".

What do these verse mean to you?

[Jeffrey]

 

theres a verse in Romans that talks about being transformed in your mind also, circumcision of the heart, sound familiar?? 

I dont smoke weed; I draw the line where the Bible does,...And for you to accuse me of doing drugs to get high is below, even the most fundy

 

You still haven't exegetied Deut 14:26 yet to prove me wrong

 

[Ukulelemike]

 

theres a verse in Romans that talks about being transformed in your mind also, circumcision of the heart, sound familiar?? 

I dont smoke weed; I draw the line where the Bible does,...And for you to accuse me of doing drugs to get high is below, even the most fundy

 

You still haven't exegetied Deut 14:26 yet to prove me wrong

 

 

So alcohol, which definitely alters the brain and damages udgment, is okay, but weed isn't?

 

Deut 14:26 is an aspect of the law, one of the tithes whch was taken and used for a big party. we, however are not Israel, not under the law, not under even this tithe. I see nothing remotely like this for believers. Rather we are called to be sober:

 

"But speak thou the things which become sound doctrine: That the aged men be sober, grave, temperate, sound in faith, in charity, in patience. The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things; That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children, To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed. Young men likewise exhort to be sober minded. In all things shewing thyself a pattern of good works: in doctrine shewing uncorruptness, gravity, sincerity, Sound speech, that cannot be condemned; that he that is of the contrary part may be ashamed, having no evil thing to say of you." (Titus 2:1-8)

 

This is all exactly the opposite of the idea of the drinking, partying, dancing, rock-n-roll 'christianity' that is so popular today. Yet Paul calls this 'sound doctrine'.

 

The Lord gave certain things to Israel that He doesn't give us, because of the hardness of their hearts-he allowed divorce for any reason, He allowed multiple wives, and He allowed them a day to party. They were not regenerated believers as we are, they were given allowances because they were hard-hearted,we are not supposed to be.

 

 

Christians are a priesthood of believers-as such, if we want to talk OT, consider that the priests weren't to drink wine nor strong drink, nor were kings or princes, because it perverts judgment. Apparently, as it is in the context, it had something to do with the sin of Nadab and Abihu, because just after their deaths, this command was given.

 

"Do not drink wine nor strong drink, thou, nor thy sons with thee, when ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation, lest ye die: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations: And that ye may put difference between holy and unholy, and between unclean and clean; And that ye may teach the children of Israel all the statutes which the LORD hath spoken unto them by the hand of Moses." Lev 10:9-11

 

How much less, then, shall we, who are ALWAYS to be about the Lord's work, always to be ready to give an answer for the hope that is within us, always to be instant in season and out of season, partake of that which deminishes the judgment?

[Jeffrey]

So alcohol, which definitely alters the brain and damages udgment, is okay, but weed isn't?  For medicinal use , I see no problem with it

 

Deut 14:26 is an aspect of the law, one of the tithes whch was taken and used for a big party. we, however are not Israel, not under the law, not under even this tithe. I see nothing remotely like this for believers. Rather we are called to be sober:

 

"But speak thou the things which become sound doctrine: That the aged men be sober, grave, temperate, sound in faith, in charity, in patience. The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things; That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children, To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed. Young men likewise exhort to be sober minded. In all things shewing thyself a pattern of good works: in doctrine shewing uncorruptness, gravity, sincerity, Sound speech, that cannot be condemned; that he that is of the contrary part may be ashamed, having no evil thing to say of you." (Titus 2:1-8)

 

Yet in Corinthians Paul tells them not to get drunk, but doesnt tell them to stop drinking,  And says elders are not to be given to much wine, and of course, Jesus made wine at a wedding and drank wine at the last supper and was accused of being a drunk in Luke, remember, the Son of Man come eating and drinking

 

This is all exactly the opposite of the idea of the drinking, partying, dancing, rock-n-roll 'christianity' that is so popular today. Yet Paul calls this 'sound doctrine'.Sound doctrine and rock and roll are two different things, FTR, i dont like RR during worship time

 

The Lord gave certain things to Israel that He doesn't give us, because of the hardness of their hearts-he allowed divorce for any reason, He allowed multiple wives, and He allowed them a day to party. They were not regenerated believers as we are, they were given allowances because they were hard-hearted,we are not supposed to be.

 

So God gives a blessing, then gives it away?? So would you tell a  woman in a marriage where her husband is abusing her and cheating on her to stay, that happens in church way more than drinking does, BTW we can still party, giving thanks to God

 

 

Christians are a priesthood of believers-as such, if we want to talk OT, consider that the priests weren't to drink wine nor strong drink, nor were kings or princes, because it perverts judgment. Apparently, as it is in the context, it had something to do with the sin of Nadab and Abihu, because just after their deaths, this command was given.

 

 "Do not drink wine nor strong drink, thou, nor thy sons with thee, when ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation, lest ye die: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations: And that ye may put difference between holy and unholy, and between unclean and clean; And that ye may teach the children of Israel all the statutes which the LORD hath spoken unto them by the hand of Moses." Lev 10:9-11

 

you notice that bolded section, they were forbidden while on duty, theres a big difference

 

How much less, then, shall we, who are ALWAYS to be about the Lord's work, always to be ready to give an answer for the hope that is within us, always to be instant in season and out of season, partake of that which deminishes the judgment?

 

Having neighbors over for a meal, then a drink and cigar afterwards and giving them the gospel is doing the Lords work. 

 

You should study the Temperance Movement of the 1800's, Christians got swept up in morality thanks in part to Finney, that still lingers today. Issues based on morality and nothing that address's the heart issues of man,ore the Gospel of Jesus Christ, you know, the death,burial and His Resurrection that which is the central theme of the Gospel