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Sinless Perfection.


DaveW

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In a very basic sense, the teaching of sinless perfection is that once a person is biblically saved, they are unable to sin.
Therefore, if a person sins it indicates that they are not saved.

There is a variation that says if you do sin you lose your salvation and must be restored.
I would suggest that we ignore this version as I think we are in agreement that salvation is eternal and can not be lost. For discussion on that aspect please start another thread.

Also, the mode and method of salvation is assumed to be biblical salvation. Again if you wish to discuss that aspect please start another thread.

I wish to keep this to the bare topic - if a person is biblically saved, can they sin?
Further, what then happens as a result of this sin?

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In a very basic sense, the teaching of sinless perfection is that once a person is biblically saved, they are unable to sin.
Therefore, if a person sins it indicates that they are not saved.

 

YES a person who is saved does sin as this nature is innate from birth since the Garden of Eden.

 

Sinless perfection this side of Heaven is not possible for any person.  The key is which spirit: darkness or light governs a person's life.

 

 

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 

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In a very basic sense, the teaching of sinless perfection is that once a person is biblically saved, they are unable to sin.
Therefore, if a person sins it indicates that they are not saved.

There is a variation that says if you do sin you lose your salvation and must be restored.
I would suggest that we ignore this version as I think we are in agreement that salvation is eternal and can not be lost. For discussion on that aspect please start another thread.

Also, the mode and method of salvation is assumed to be biblical salvation. Again if you wish to discuss that aspect please start another thread.

I wish to keep this to the bare topic - if a person is biblically saved, can they sin?
Further, what then happens as a result of this sin?

Yes, a biblically saved person can sin.

What happens? Sowing to the flesh causes us to reap corruption. It will also bring Chastisement.

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I believe that, as Christians, we are made up of two (somewhat) distinct beings, the Old Man and the New Man. While in the flesh, which is the Old Man, (hereafter, OM), that OM can, and does, sin. It is a body of sin. However, there is also present within us the New Man, (hereafter NM), and it is the NM that neither sins, nor can sin. When we are resurrected, the OM is done away with and completely replaced by the NM, the body being renewed in a glorified state, to be like the resurrected body of Christ.

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Of course God does not want us to sin. And the Christian who is actively seeking to grow in the Lord is not going to WANT to sin. But sin cannot be completely avoided because we are in a fallen world, still in the flesh, and the devil is still out there...

There is also the fact that many Christians don't grow much beyond their salvation for one reason or another (usually either a lack of discipleship or being in a church where spiritual growth is not that important). And so oftentimes that Christian might not have the discernment to follow biblical principles they may never have learned.
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I believe that, as Christians, we are made up of two (somewhat) distinct beings, the Old Man and the New Man. While in the flesh, which is the Old Man, (hereafter, OM), that OM can, and does, sin. It is a body of sin. However, there is also present within us the New Man, (hereafter NM), and it is the NM that neither sins, nor can sin. When we are resurrected, the OM is done away with and completely replaced by the NM, the body being renewed in a glorified state, to be like the resurrected body of Christ.

Yes, this is the battle Paul had in Romans chapter flesh fighting against the new man.  We all have this battle; some choose to "feed" self and others choose to become more Christ-like.

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YES a person who is saved does sin as this nature is innate from birth since the Garden of Eden.

 

Sinless perfection this side of Heaven is not possible for any person.  The key is which spirit: darkness or light governs a person's life.

 

 

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 

 

A further point of clarification on the issue is that 1 John was written to believers (vv. 1-3 make this clear). Thus, when verse 8 indicates that "we" have sin it shows that believers certainly do sin. Further, John points out in verse 4 that the purpose of the epistle is to help Christians have a joyful life; and one of ways in which to do this is to acknowledge sin (v. 8), confess sin (v. 9), and avoid further sin (2:3).

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Yes a Christian can sin and struggles with it his whole life here on earth.

 

Roms 7:14 ¶ For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.   For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.   If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.   Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.   For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.   For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.   Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.   I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.   For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:  But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.   O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?   I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

 

But Christ Saved eternally

 Heb 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
 

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I wish to keep this to the bare topic - if a person is biblically saved, can they sin?
Further, what then happens as a result of this sin?

Answer to the first question is: Yes, a saved person can sin.

 

Answer to the second is: Yes there are a lot of things can result from sin.  But very few are following scripture today to do what needs to be done.  for example Paul said if someone sinned Timothy was to rebuke them before all so that all will learn to fear.

 

1Tim 5:20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.

 

And the one which had his father's wife was put out of fellowship until he repented.  1Cor 5:1 ¶ It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
 2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
 3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,
 4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
 5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

 6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?
 7 ¶ Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:

 

Here leaven is liken to sin and not the addition of law to the Lord's cross.

 

Remember that some sins have there results here on earth and others when thy get to heaven

 

1Tim 5:24 Some men's sins are open beforehand, going before to judgment; and some men they follow after.

 

the works of the flesh (sin) result in: Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

 

yes sin has lots of results here on earth.

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Neither SFIC nor I believe nor do we teach sinless perfection....nor do we believe and teach Lordship salvation/works salvation. 


The general opinion of sinless perfection agrees with what I (and SFIC) believe about that teaching.

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 do you think Jesus was sinless and perfect?

No thinking to it - yes He was.  

2 Cor. 5:21

1 Peter 2:22

Man, however, is not.  Just because Christ took on Himself the form of man does not mean He took on man's sinfulness. Had He, He could not have been our Saviour.

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