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Creation - Genesis 1 & 2, Teaches The Plan Of Salvation & Redemption, But How Many Knew This?


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Please take a moment more, to go back and read a little more carefully.  I am not negating the literal days of Genesis in the least.  I believe them completely and teach them as such.  Each day of Genesis was indeed a day, yes even literal standard consecutive 24hr periods, having both evening and morning.

 

This thread is not negating that.  Please read again:

 

"...The real literal days of Creation, but now seen in something far greater..."

 

I assure you, I have not taken 1 Peter 3:8 out of its context, since it is speaking about days with God.  Read the context a little more slowly, please, it is all I ask.

 

I understand what you're saying, but you're still allegorizing texts that was not intended to convey anything but a historical meaning. By breaking down each day of Creation with a figurative meaning for different thousand-year periods, you're reading in a preconcieved notion of eschatology into passages (an error known as eisegesis) that could not have meant what you say they mean to the original audience (an error known as an anachronism). By doing so, you're digging unintended meanings out of the texts.

 

Also, on 2 Peter 3:8, the context is shows that it is not intending to communicate a literal equality between 1000 years of man with a day of God. It is a hyperbole that is intended to stress the passing of time in God's eyes is much different than ours, just as Bro. John stated. Two critical contextual clues point to this. Verses 1-6 gives the reason for epistle: it calls reminds the readers of the state of the world and the frame of mind of the people immediately prior to the Flood and illustrates the suddenness of God's judgment. Verse 7 equates that situation with the present one in order to illustrate that the world will continue as it is until God's judgment comes swiftly and unexpectedly. Secondly, verse 9 clarifies the reason for the illustration in verse 8 by explaining why God seems to be waiting so long to usher in the resurrection and final judgment. Verses 10-18 bring the chapter full circle with an exhortation to holy living with an expectation that the end times may begin at any moment. Within the context of the whole chapter, verse 8 is clearly an illustrative point not intended to convey a literal equation of God's time versus mans time. This is what I mean by saying you've taken 2 Peter 3:8 out of context.

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Exodus 20:11 (KJV) 11 For [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them [is], and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Shoots down the false doctrine of angels existing long before Genesis 1 creation account. The angels were created within the six day creation week.

Actually no it does not, but please bear with me, as we will need to ask a few questions of the texts together.  Exodus 20:11 is specific in "the heavens and earth" it speaks about, and also specific about the "all" that is in "them" is.  The very context of Genesis 1 & 2 only mentions 2 of the Heavens, where the sun, moon and stars are, and the place where the birds fly as being created in those 6 days and God resting the 7th.  I ask you, where from was God resting?  It was in the 3rd Heaven which already existed, but we shall come to that more specifically after a few questions, please bear with me.

 

First Question:  How many "heavens" are there Biblically?
 

On my own part, I would like to answer from scripture that there are three such "heavens"; briefly [other texts upon request, for in the mouth of two or three witnesses, let everything be established] in demonstration:
 

[1] Where the Birds Fly; Atmosphere: "...fowl [that] may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven." [Genesis 1:20];
 

[2] Where the Sun, Moon and Stars dwell; ie above/beyond the Atmosphere:  "And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:" [Genesis 1:14];
 

[3] Where God Himself dwells upon His Throne [Matthew 23:22, etc], with His Angels, ie the Heart/Center of all Creation which surrounds it; "Third Heaven":  "I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven." [2 Corinthians 12:2].
 

Would you agree that the scriptures [even along with others] teach that there are three such "heavens"?

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Exodus 20:11 (KJV) 11 For [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them [is], and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

I believe Scripture.

No need to try to convince me otherwise with your SDA cultic questions and doctrine.

It is futile to even attempt to do so

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"Heaven" in Exodus 20:11 is a plural word.  It is translated from the Hebrew "shamayim" 

The fact that it ends with "im" reveals its plurality.

How many different 'heavens' does the Bible refer to?  Many says three 1). The sky and atmosphere which we live in; 2) Outer-space where the planets and stars are: 3) Where God's abode is.

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Psalms 77:18 (KJV) 18 The voice of thy thunder [was] in the heaven: the lightnings lightened the world: the earth trembled and shook.
Galgal - Wheel, Whirlwind


Psalms 89:37 (KJV) 37 It shall be established for ever as the moon, and [as] a faithful witness in heaven. Selah.
Shachaq - Dust, cloud

Daniel 2:18 (KJV) 18 That they would desire mercies of the God of heaven concerning this secret; that Daniel and his fellows should not perish with the rest of the wise [men] of Babylon.
Shamayim - Visible sky, abode of God

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Exodus 20:11 (KJV) 11 For [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them [is], and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

I believe Scripture.

No need to try to convince me otherwise with your SDA cultic questions and doctrine.

It is futile to even attempt to do so

 

...

 

"Heaven" in Exodus 20:11 is a plural word.  It is translated from the Hebrew "shamayim" 

The fact that it ends with "im" reveals its plurality.

 

I am not attempting to trap anyone into anything, but we are honestly looking at the Scriptures, and in so doing, when we come across anything that is more correct in understanding than what we presently hold, I will accept it, since the Bible corrects us, since it is living and a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.  For within its pages is the perfect DNA, so to speak, of the will of God, and though we come to it with all kinds of misunderstandings and darkness of not knowing, the word of God is Light, and as we read, the more and more will it transform us back into that which God would have us be.

 

Yes, the words in Genesis and Exodus is hashamayim, the heavens, plural.  Notice, please that both Genesis and Exodus speak only of Two Heavens [being created there], not Three.  This may be shown demonstrably and exegetically, please consider:

 

Heaven [1] "And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven." - Genesis 1:20

 

Heaven [2] "And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:" - Genesis 1:14
 

Can you show me from Genesis or Exodus which references Genesis, wherein the Third Heaven is in view or being spoken of, or can you show me where any of the beings of Heaven [beyond God, who is uncreated, eternal], are mentioned as being created in Genesis 1?

 

I have more questions of any who will look with me.

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I am not attempting to trap anyone into anything, but we are honestly looking at the Scriptures, and in so doing, when we come across anything that is more correct in understanding than what we presently hold, I will accept it, since the Bible corrects us, since it is living and a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.  For within its pages is the perfect DNA, so to speak, of the will of God, and though we come to it with all kinds of misunderstandings and darkness of not knowing, the word of God is Light, and as we read, the more and more will it transform us back into that which God would have us be.

 

Yes, the words in Genesis and Exodus is hashamayim, the heavens, plural.  Notice, please that both Genesis and Exodus speak only of Two Heavens [being created there], not Three.  This may be shown demonstrably and exegetically, please consider:

 

Heaven [1] "And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven." - Genesis 1:20

 

Heaven [2] "And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:" - Genesis 1:14
 

Can you show me from Genesis or Exodus which references Genesis, wherein the Third Heaven is in view or being spoken of, or can you show me where any of the beings of Heaven [beyond God, who is uncreated, eternal], are mentioned as being created in Genesis 1?

 

I have more questions of any who will look with me.

 

I think your questions reveal an agenda to persuade someone to your point of view. You don't appear to be asking for understanding, but rather to get someone to take the bait so you can make a point and perhaps poke holes in the opposing arguments. It's a rather dishonest way to go about "looking into the Scriptures". You should try stating your position and reasoning and then let people interact with the facts.

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[...] You should try stating your position and reasoning and then let people interact with the facts.

 

The question method is better, that people might do their own study.  What method did Jesus also use?  What saith the Law, how readest thou?

 

However, a few Facts, then:

 

[Fact 1]:  Genesis 1 & 2 speak nowhere about the creation of the 3rd Heaven, or of anything created in it, thus there are no mention of angels, the four living creatures, and so on.

 

[Fact 2]:  Genesis 1 & 2 speak only of the creation of the 1st Heaven [birds of the air fly in] and the 2nd Heaven [where sun, moon and stars are] and "all" that which is in "them".

 

[Fact 3]:  Genesis 1 & 2 speak of everything in them as "good" and "very good" and finally "completed [perfected]".

 

[Fact 4]:  Genesis 1 speaks of the foundation of the Earth in vs 1-2: "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.  And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters."

 

[Fact 5]:  The Angels and Sons of God, beings of unfallen worlds, were already in existence to see God create the foundations of the earth, in Job 38:4-11, "Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.  Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?  Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereofWhen the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?  Or who shut up the sea with doors, when it brake forth, as if it had issued out of the womb?  When I made the cloud the garment thereof, and thick darkness a swaddlingband for it,  And brake up for it my decreed place, and set bars and doors,  And said, Hitherto shalt thou come, but no further: and here shall thy proud waves be stayed? ..."

 

[Fact 5]:  Lucifer fell from heaven [Luke 10:18], for his sin [2 Peter 2:4; Ezekiel 28:15, see also Isaiah 14], and he was already found to be a father of murderers "from the beginning" [John 8:44], and already called "the serpent" in Genesis 3:1-14, and yet he was not existent on earth before that time, since it was good and very good and perfected until that time.  Lucifer had "walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire" in the "Eden the garden of God", upon "the holy mountain of God", being "Mount Zion" of Heaven, which "cannot be removed, [but] abideth forever".  This "mountain" existed before the earth and its heavens were created.  His Throne exists in the center of all things, already existing from eternity [Psalms 11:4, 45:6, 93:2, 97:2, 103:19; Isaiah 66:1, etc] and the angelic hosts already surrounded Him [isaiah 24:3; 1 Kings 22:19; 2 Chronicles 18:18; Ezekiel; Revelation], but God "stretched" [isaiah 51:3] out the place and made room for our Heavens and Earth [Psalms 136:6; Isaiah 42:5; Jermeiah 10:12, 51:15]. Those angels were then to become "ministering" unto us.

 

[Fact 6]:  Lucifer had been in the Garden/Eden of God in Heaven, before this earth was ever made [Ezekiel 28:12-19], and Genesis 2 does not say that God "created" the Garden of Eden on earth, it says that He "planted" [Genesis 2:8] it, for God had taken from the Garden of Eden that already was in Heaven and so planted it upon earth, that it may be like the Eden of Heaven:

 

And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee To day, shalt thou be with me in paradise. Luke 23:32

It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord. 2 Corinthians 12:1

I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth; ) such an one caught up to the third heaven. 2 Corinthians 12:2

And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth; ) 2 Corinthians 12:3

How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter. 2 Corinthians 12:4

He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God. Revelation 2:7

In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, [was there] the tree of life, which bare twelve [manner of] fruits, [and] yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree [were] for the healing of the nations. Revelation 22:2

Blessed [are] they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. Revelation 22:14

Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone [was] thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. Ezekiel 28:13

13en th trufh tou paradeisou tou qeou egenhqhs pan liqon crhston endedesai sardion kai topazion kai smaragdon kai anqraka kai sapfeiron kai iaspin kai argurion kai crusion kai ligurion kai acathn kai amequston kai crusoliqon kai bhrullion kai onucion kai crusiou eneplhsas tous qhsaurous sou kai tas apoqhkas sou en soi af¢ hs hmeras ektisqhs su Ezekiel 28:13 LXX

 

[Fact 7]:  The earth was created that God would be vindicated before the whole universe, for there was already in Heaven [3rd], a war [Revelation 12, Romans 3:4; Psalms 51:4; Matthew 13:28; etc]:

 

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I am astounded at the arguments put forth here.

Six days - word study, context, simple reading, cross referencing ALL clearly talk of six literal 24 hour days.

And salvation simply doesn't make sense if there was death before sin.

Just shaking my head.......

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The origin of sin began with Satan's pride (Isaiah 14:12-14).    Sin entered the world through Adam's disobedience (Genesis 3; Romans 5:12).

 

Sin brought death....there was no death before sin entered the world.

 

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

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Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.        1 Corinthians 2:6-8
 
Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;
Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: 
To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles;
which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:                                                                    Colossians 1:25-26

 

If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his

holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body,

and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:                                                     Ephesians 3:2-6

 

Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ,
according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,   Romans 16:25

 

The Gospel of Grace (through Faith) was revealed to the Apostle Paul. 

Only the Body of Christ is sealed with the Holy Spirit.

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The Bible does mention specifically three.

Of interest, some mentions of heaven are speaking of dust, or cloud.

 

2 Corinthians 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.

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