Way Of Life - The Sword Of The Lord And The Carl Hatch Squeeze - Abbreviated

[RSS Robot]

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Enlarged January 9, 2014 (first published July 11, 2011) (David Cloud, Fundamental Baptist Information Service, P.O. Box 610368, Port Huron, MI 48061, 866-295-4143, fbns@wayoflife.org)

This is an abbreviated edition of a report that was published July 11, 2011. For the full report see the search engine at the Way of Life web site.

“Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance” (Luke 3:8).

“I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance” (Luke 5:32).

“I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish” (Luke 13:3, 5).

“And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem” (Luke 24:47).

“And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent” (Acts 17:30).

“Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ” (Acts 20:21).

“But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance” (Acts 26:20).

In the June 10, 2011, issue of the Sword of the Lord, the paper’s editor, Shelton Smith [pictured left], published a reply to my warning about the Sword’s position on repentance. His response was to the following brief report that appeared in the Friday Church News Notes last December:

SWORD OF THE LORD OMITS REPENTANCE FROM SPURGEON SERMON (Friday Church News Notes, December 17, 2010, www.wayoflife.org fbns@wayoflife.org, 866-295-4143) - Recently I received the following e-mail from Jim Koenig: “Last night we watched your video ‘How to Avoid False Professions’ for the second time and the segment on repentance was even more enlightening this time around. Over the years we have noticed that the Sword of the Lord has shifted away from the doctrine of repentance and cunningly led their readers in that direction. A good example is the Charles Spurgeon sermon ‘Only Trust Him’ in the November 26, 2010 issue. They have left out what he said about repentance. The original sermon can be found at www.spurgeongems.org/sermons.htm (sermon #1635) and the omitted part is on page three of the sermon, the 6th full paragraph down. Years ago my wife and I graduated from the Sword Soul Winning Director’s College, taught personally by Bro. Smith, Bro. Norris Belcher, and the late Bro. Larry Staner. At no time, never, was the word ‘repent’ mentioned or implied during the three day course. I am not anti-Sword, but they are 100% wrong on repentance and have influenced thousands of young preachers to spread their one-two-three repeat after me prayers.”

COMMENT BY BROTHER CLOUD

The Sword of the Lord truly has a problem with biblical repentance, and this is not a new thing.

View the full article

[John81]

:goodpost:Essential, always needed, and very timely here in light of some things being discussed in other threads.

[wretched]

I am no supporter of repeat after me prayers but will say this: The Sword described type of soul winning at the bare minimum is aggressively getting the Gospel out to people. Granted many of the professions may be rushed and premature but the seed is sown and/or watered. Somewhere down the road those folks will hear it again and realize they have no assurance of their previous professions under the Spirit's conviction (or not).

I have been involved for years with this type of street preaching soul winning at fairs/events/etc. The caveat at the end of these prayers is usually this:

"Now sir, if you truly felt the need to escape hell and be saved by Jesus, you will notice a change of how you think and have a desire to learn more of God" so read this stuff about getting baptized and call us or come by.

 

I liken it to every child profession of faith I have seen, which are many. I think this is far more service than sitting in your house on the internet criticizing real servants.

 

This idea of it being false teaching or harmful is lazy nonsense.

 

Want to hear the pathetic part: I have verbally heard of or met all the preachers spoken down about in this article and have know many of the members of their churches which were won under this type of soul winning method. I have never heard anyone mention this Cloud guy (apart from this forum) however nor met anyone saved under this internet "ministry".

 

This gent should stop proud, lazy service methods and start serving in a local NT church under a local NT pastor as we are all commanded to do. Seems to me that he is just another rebellious, ego-driven dude who thinks he is better or smarter than any pastor so how could he possibly serve under another man's leadership. Maybe I am wrong but I doubt it.

[DaveW]

He is an active missionary.
Aside from that correction, I agree with your general premise.

[mkrishna]

 

See end of report to Print or Share

Enlarged January 9, 2014 (first published July 11, 2011) (David Cloud, Fundamental Baptist Information Service, P.O. Box 610368, Port Huron, MI 48061, 866-295-4143, fbns@wayoflife.org)

This is an abbreviated edition of a report that was published July 11, 2011. For the full report see the search engine at the Way of Life web site.

“Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance” (Luke 3:8).

“I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance” (Luke 5:32).

“I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish” (Luke 13:3, 5).

“And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem” (Luke 24:47).

“And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent” (Acts 17:30).

“Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ” (Acts 20:21).

“But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance” (Acts 26:20).

 

In the June 10, 2011, issue of the Sword of the Lord, the paper’s editor, Shelton Smith [pictured left], published a reply to my warning about the Sword’s position on repentance. His response was to the following brief report that appeared in the Friday Church News Notes last December:

 

SWORD OF THE LORD OMITS REPENTANCE FROM SPURGEON SERMON (Friday Church News Notes, December 17, 2010, www.wayoflife.org fbns@wayoflife.org, 866-295-4143) - Recently I received the following e-mail from Jim Koenig: “Last night we watched your video ‘How to Avoid False Professions’ for the second time and the segment on repentance was even more enlightening this time around. Over the years we have noticed that the Sword of the Lord has shifted away from the doctrine of repentance and cunningly led their readers in that direction. A good example is the Charles Spurgeon sermon ‘Only Trust Him’ in the November 26, 2010 issue. They have left out what he said about repentance. The original sermon can be found at www.spurgeongems.org/sermons.htm (sermon #1635) and the omitted part is on page three of the sermon, the 6th full paragraph down. Years ago my wife and I graduated from the Sword Soul Winning Director’s College, taught personally by Bro. Smith, Bro. Norris Belcher, and the late Bro. Larry Staner. At no time, never, was the word ‘repent’ mentioned or implied during the three day course. I am not anti-Sword, but they are 100% wrong on repentance and have influenced thousands of young preachers to spread their one-two-three repeat after me prayers.”

COMMENT BY BROTHER CLOUD

The Sword of the Lord truly has a problem with biblical repentance, and this is not a new thing.
 

View the full article

 

Good post. If so many people who pray a prayer or being saved, why do most people in America who call themselves "Christians" have no interest in proclaiming the Gospel to others? The Hyles crowd and the like are leading millions of people to hell.

[HappyChristian]

Cloud has a pastor. And he is a missionary to Nepal. Where he sees people saved. His "internet ministry" is part and parcel of his entire ministry, which includes massive research (yes, he really does research before he writes) and writing books. Do my hubby and I agree with him always? Nah...but we don't always agree with each other. Lol.

That said, there is definitely an issue with the 1-2-3 pray after me - don't spend more than 5 minutes (yes, I heard a leader of easy prayerism say that) - boom, you're saved type soulwinning.

Yes, often the seed is planted, and that is super wonderful. But also at times it deceives a person into believing they are saved when they actually aren't. I know - we can't know the heart. But if conviction hasn't come, a person ends up trusting a prayer rather than the Person of Christ.

We could all tell stories. I worked for Evangelist Joe Boyd for a number of years. He was the master at blitz soulwinning. The town where we were was "won to Christ" many times over by preacher boys who went out and got oodles of professions every year. Did anyone truly get saved? I sure hope so, but certainly not the same people year after year after year...

Carl Hatch came to preach at the church where my hubby and I met. My hubby was deeply burdened for his dad's salvation. Imagine the excitement about having the man who could lead entire baseball teams to the Lord just during the time they changed from at bat to outfield! (yes, I'm sorry, that was sarcasm) One afternoon, before the service, my hubby, his pastor, and CH went to see my (soon-to-be) FIL. We were so excited. Prayed the whole time. When they came into the church, CH was first in. We asked...he just shook his head and waved his hand like he was disgusted and said, "that man will never get saved." My hubby was last in - and the anguish on his face was horrible.

Come to find out: they went in to the house, hub introduced everyone, CH shook FILs hand. Started right in, got kicked out. Upon leaving the house, CH told my hubby God had told him my hub's dad would never get saved - when he shook his hand. Pfffft. What rot.

God did save my FIL - and my hubby got to enjoy a Christian father for 12 years. He's been in glory for 9 now. I imagine CH was surprised to see him there (again with the sarcasm:-D ).I'm thinking there was a good bit of ego on CH's part...

Yes, I do believe there is aggressive soulwinning that goes on in many churches (it does in ours), but I don't believe that thousands are getting saved. If there were, America wouldn't be in the shape she's in.


Sadly,I think there is an ego problem that is prevalent in so much of Christianity today. Does DC have an ego problem? Maybe. But I know for sure he has a problem with unbiblical practices.