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Eric Stahl

Revelation 12 And Daniel 12

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I disagree, would you like to see why?  May we look at the Scriptures together?

 

Can you explain to me what Jesus meant here:

 

And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel. Mark 1:15

 

What "time" was Jesus referring to?

 

Or can you tell me the same for what Jesus said here in regards to the "time":

 

And he said, Go into the city to such a man, and say unto him, The Master saith, My time is at hand; I will keep the passover at thy house with my disciples. Matthew 26:18

 

I have questions for those which believe in futurism or preterism.  Would any like to see if they may answer them for me?

You can disagree all you want to.  Basic prophecy uses Daniel's prophecy as the "timeline" for Israel, and the last 7 years have not been fulfilled.

 

Jesus speaking:
When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet,
stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)  see Matt 24:15-22 
NOTE the reference to the observance of the SABBATH DAY in vs. 20
 
The Jews were expected to know the exact day that the Messiah would enter Jerusalem riding on a donkey,
(triumphal entry) by reading Daniel's prophecy in Daniel 9 and counting from the decree of Artaxerxes Longimanus.
 
"Preterists" will tell you that ALL prophecy was completely fulfilled by 70AD.
Edited by beameup

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What if I told you, based upon the Scripture, that those 1,260 are already fulfilled, and were years, not days?  And that they are not part of the 70 weeks of Daniel 9?  and that the two witnesses have already witnessed of their testimony?

 

Would you like to see this?

You would be wrong.

 

Revelation 11:12-14

12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

 

In order for the 1260 days to have been completed 25% of the world's population would have had to die in the first 6 seal judgments. And another 25% would have to have died in the first 6 trumpet judgments. All the crops on the earth would have had to been destroyed at one time. A falling star would have had to of poisoned 1/3 of the fresh water on earth.

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The difinitive work on this subject was published in 1881 when 

Sir Robert Anderson of Scotland Yard wrote "The Coming Prince".

 

The Coming Prince: The Marvelous Prophecy of Daniel's Seventy Weeks Concerning the Antichrist

http://www.crossworkministries.org/biblestudies_files/The%20Coming%20Prince%20-%20Sir%20Robert%20Anderson.pdf

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The Bible is the real definitive work on the subject.

Could you point us to the verse that gives us the date of the commandment for the rebuilding of the temple and the wall?

 

Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem
unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again,
and the wall, even in troublous times. Daniel 9:25
Edited by beameup

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Could you point us to the verse that gives us the date of the commandment for the rebuilding of the temple and the wall?

 

Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem
unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again,
and the wall, even in troublous times. Daniel 9:25
 

 

I don't think that anyone can give you the exact date as I believe that all dates on the top of the pages of our bibles are all guesswork.

 

But in Isaiah chapter 44, we are told that God had already given the command.  But it is not the command itself, but the publishing or going forth of the command from which it is dated.  And Isaiah 44 and 45 tell us that it was Cyrus who was to give the command.

 

From the going forth or publishing of the command by Cyrus there was to be 7 weeks or 49 years till Nehemiah completed the walls. From then 62 weeks till the baptism of Jesus.  One week or seven years more while the gospel was directed to the Jews and then the way of salvation was opened to the gentiles.  You don't need any secular speculations as to BC dates, or even AD dates.  Scripture has it all.

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I don't think that anyone can give you the exact date as I believe that all dates on the top of the pages of our bibles are all guesswork.

 

But in Isaiah chapter 44, we are told that God had already given the command.  But it is not the command itself, but the publishing or going forth of the command from which it is dated.  And Isaiah 44 and 45 tell us that it was Cyrus who was to give the command.

 

From the going forth or publishing of the command by Cyrus there was to be 7 weeks or 49 years till Nehemiah completed the walls. From then 62 weeks till the baptism of Jesus.  One week or seven years more while the gospel was directed to the Jews and then the way of salvation was opened to the gentiles.  You don't need any secular speculations as to BC dates, or even AD dates.  Scripture has it all.

Nope.  Cyrus command was to rebuild the Temple only.  You need to read your Bible a bit more carefully.

 

Would it make a difference if we actually had the decree of Cyrus (Cyrus Cylinder)?

Or are you of the persuasion that reading of anything outside the Bible is forbidden?

Some might suggest that we should only "listen" to the Holy Spirit (to guide us into Truth).

Of course that could rule out all Christian T.V. or the Christian Bookstore or even "sermons"

as well as results of any "archeology" from the Middle-East.

Edited by beameup

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Nope.  Cyrus command was to rebuild the Temple only.  You need to read your Bible a bit more carefully.

 

Would it make a difference if we actually had the decree of Cyrus (Cyrus Cylinder)?

Or are you of the persuasion that reading of anything outside the Bible is forbidden?

Some might suggest that we should only "listen" to the Holy Spirit (to guide us into Truth).

Of course that could rule out all Christian T.V. or the Christian Bookstore or even "sermons"

as well as results of any "archeology" from the Middle-East.

 

 

You are absolutely wrong.

 

Isaiah 44: 23  Sing, O ye heavens; for the LORD hath done it: shout, ye lower parts of the earth: break forth into singing, ye mountains, O forest, and every tree therein: for the LORD hath redeemed Jacob, and glorified himself in Israel.

24  Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;
25  That frustrateth the tokens of the liars, and maketh diviners mad; that turneth wise men backward, and maketh their knowledge foolish;
26  That confirmeth the word of his servant, and performeth the counsel of his messengers; that saith to Jerusalem, Thou shalt be inhabited; and to the cities of Judah, Ye shall be built, and I will raise up the decayed places thereof:
27  That saith to the deep, Be dry, and I will dry up thy rivers:
28  That saith of Cyrus, He is my shepherd, and shall perform all my pleasure: even saying to Jerusalem, Thou shalt be built; and to the temple, Thy foundation shall be laid.
1 ¶  Thus saith the LORD to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have holden, to subdue nations before him; and I will loose the loins of kings, to open before him the two leaved gates; and the gates shall not be shut;
2  I will go before thee, and make the crooked places straight: I will break in pieces the gates of brass, and cut in sunder the bars of iron:
3  And I will give thee the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places, that thou mayest know that I, the LORD, which call thee by thy name, am the God of Israel.
4  For Jacob my servant’s sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.
5 ¶  I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:
6  That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.
7  I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
8  Drop down, ye heavens, from above, and let the skies pour down righteousness: let the earth open, and let them bring forth salvation, and let righteousness spring up together; I the LORD have created it.
9  Woe unto him that striveth with his Maker! Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the earth. Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, What makest thou? or thy work, He hath no hands?
10  Woe unto him that saith unto his father, What begettest thou? or to the woman, What hast thou brought forth?
11 ¶  Thus saith the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker, Ask me of things to come concerning my sons, and concerning the work of my hands command ye me.
12  I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded.
13  I have raised him up in righteousness, and I will direct all his ways: he shall build my city, and he shall let go my captives, not for price nor reward, saith the LORD of hosts.
14  Thus saith the LORD, The labour of Egypt, and merchandise of Ethiopia and of the Sabeans, men of stature, shall come over unto thee, and they shall be thine: they shall come after thee; in chains they shall come over, and they shall fall down unto thee, they shall make supplication unto thee, saying, Surely God is in thee; and there is none else, there is no God.
15  Verily thou art a God that hidest thyself, O God of Israel, the Saviour.
16  They shall be ashamed, and also confounded, all of them: they shall go to confusion together that are makers of idols.
17  But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.
18  For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.
19  I have not spoken in secret, in a dark place of the earth: I said not unto the seed of Jacob, Seek ye me in vain: I the LORD speak righteousness, I declare things that are right.
 
Nehemiah was only to repair the walls which he did in only 52 days.  The city was already built, Those Jews repaired the wall by their own houses.

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You are absolutely wrong.

 

 

28  That saith of Cyrus, He is my shepherd, and shall perform all my pleasure: even saying to Jerusalem, Thou shalt be built; and to the temple, Thy foundation shall be laid.
 
 
Nehemiah was only to repair the walls which he did in only 52 days.  The city was already built, Those Jews repaired the wall by their own houses.

 

Under whose authorithy did Nehemiah "rebuild the walls", Cyrus?  I believe that you stated that Daniel's prophecy was to start with the decree of Cyrus.

So, give us the date.  Oh, that's right, the Bible does not give a date.  I guess that we will never be able to "figure out" the starting date of Daniel's prophecy,

will we?

Do you listen to "sermons" or read books from "Christian bookstores" or watch "Christian T.V." or listen to "Christian radio messages"??

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Nehemiah 1-6

Edited by beameup

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Under whose authorithy did Nehemiah "rebuild the walls", Cyrus?  I believe that you stated that Daniel's prophecy was to start with the decree of Cyrus.

So, give us the dateOh, that's right, the Bible does not give a date.  I guess that we will never be able to "figure out" the starting date of Daniel's prophecy,

will we?

Do you listen to "sermons" or read books from "Christian bookstores" or watch "Christian T.V." or listen to "Christian radio messages"??

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Nehemiah 1-6

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Isaiah 44:24-28  "Thus saith the LORD"

.

v. 28a  sayeth of Cyrus

v. 28b  say to Jerusalem

These are seperate statements, not to be cojoined

I know of nowhere in the Bible is there an exact date given as shown on a calender (ie; June 21, 0021)

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I know of nowhere in the Bible is there an exact date given as shown on a calender (ie; June 21, 0021)

Well, those that rely "only on the Bible" are unable to produce dates.  In that case, we really cannot determine even the year Jesus was born (for example).

Say, a scroll was found or a cuneiform tablet, in that case we would be forbidden to even examine it.  As it stands right now, for example,

there is little or no evidence that the Exodus even took place.

Suppose evidence was found for the Exodus, would those that rely "only on the Bible" be sinning to even examine the evidence?

Edited by beameup

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Well, those that rely "only on the Bible" are unable to produce dates.  In that case, we really cannot determine even the year Jesus was born (for example).

Say, a scroll was found or a cuneiform tablet, in that case we would be forbidden to even examine it.  As it stands right now, for example,

there is little or no evidence that the Exodus even took place.

Suppose evidence was found for the Exodus, would those that rely "only on the Bible" be sinning to even examine the evidence?

No. However when some "discovered" evidence is contradictory to the Bible, then we have a Major problem. 

Either we accept the Bible as the Word of God which He has preserved for us or we don't. The Bible is not to be used as a buffet; pick and choose what we like and discard what we don't like.

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No. However when some "discovered" evidence is contradictory to the Bible, then we have a Major problem. 

Either we accept the Bible as the Word of God which He has preserved for us or we don't. The Bible is not to be used as a buffet; pick and choose what we like and discard what we don't like.

There are those who disagree with you and rely "only on the Bible".  The Bible is not a "history book" per se IMO, and there are "apparent" contradictions.

For example, some state that Cyrus is responsible for building the wall in Jerusalem.  Others point out that, Belshazzar "appears" to be the ruler of

all Babylon (Daniel 5), which seems to be "contradictory".  And then there is the Exodus, which is very clear in scripture but not elsewhere.

If you are left with NOTHING but the Bible, then many "unsolved mysteries" remain unanswered.  But I must respect that there are those

who do rely "only on the Bible" for all their information.

Edited by beameup

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There are those who disagree with you and rely "only on the Bible".  The Bible is not a "history book" per se IMO, and there are "apparent" contradictions.

For example, some state that Cyrus is responsible for building the wall in Jerusalem.  Others point out that, Belshazzar "appears" to be the ruler of

all Babylon (Daniel 5), which seems to be "contradictory".  And then there is the Exodus, which is very clear in scripture but not elsewhere.

If you are left with NOTHING but the Bible, then many "unsolved mysteries" remain unanswered.  But I must respect that there are those

who do rely "only on the Bible" for all their information.

I believe its time for me to 'stop beating a dead horse'. However, I must say:

I DO rely only on the Bible. So-called discovered evidence is in the eye of the beholder and therefore is interpreted by same.

As far as who was responsible for rebuilding the wall; I could care less; what really matters is that it was rebuilt.

As for the exodus; Just the fact that God took them from Egypt and took them into the 'promise land' is all I really need to know. Yes- all those events that occurred in between is great to know; because it tells us how God dealt with his children and took care of them. But the bottom line is that they were once in bondage and now they're free. Just as God's children is today. :wave: 

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No more sola scriptura?

Absolutely, however, we have been given history as a resource to broaden or flesh out the truths the Bible give us. We don't shape our truths and cotrines by historym but instead, history gives us additional information. Just as looking to the stars shows us the gory and handiwork of God-do we "Need" them, alng with scripture? Well, scripture seems to think so, as it is in scripture that we see David telling us that the heavens declare the handiwork of God. Is looking to the heaven taking away from sola scriptura? Not at all. Its a resource given to us by the Lord, like history, like the wisdom of some perhaps wiser than oursleves. History confirms the truths of scripture.  And its actually done a dandy job of it!

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Some of you are like the JWs, you have one or two proof texts and refuse to look further into the scriptures to see if you are correct.

 

What does the scripture say?

 

28  That saith of Cyrus, He is my shepherd, and shall perform all my pleasure: even saying to Jerusalem, Thou shalt be built; and to the temple, Thy foundation shall be laid.

 

Who said that? I didn't, God did.

 

If we take the generally, but not universally received chronology, Nehemiah must have been over 150 years old when he worked on the walls as he was one of the Jewish leaders who returned with Zerubbabel,

 

Ezra 2:1 ¶  Now these are the children of the province that went up out of the captivity, of those which had been carried away, whom Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon had carried away unto Babylon, and came again unto Jerusalem and Judah, every one unto his city;
2  Which came with Zerubbabel: Jeshua, Nehemiah, Seraiah, Reelaiah, Mordecai, Bilshan, Mispar, Bigvai, Rehum, Baanah.

 

 

The list is repeated again in Neh. 10:1, with different spellings and one addition.

Jeshua, Nehemiah, Azariah, Raamiah, (Nahamani,) Mordecai, Bilshan, Mispereth, Bigvai, Nehum, Baanah.

 

38  And because of all this we make a sure covenant, and write it; and our princes, Levites, and priests, seal unto it.
1 ¶  Now those that sealed were, Nehemiah, the Tirshatha, the son of Hachaliah, and Zidkijah,
Seraiah, Azariah, Jeremiah,
3  Pashur, Amariah, Malchijah,
4  Hattush, Shebaniah, Malluch,
5  Harim, Meremoth, Obadiah,
6  Daniel, Ginnethon, Baruch,
7  Meshullam, Abijah, Mijamin,
8  Maaziah, Bilgai, Shemaiah: these were the priests.
9  And the Levites: both Jeshua the son of Azaniah, Binnui of the sons of Henadad, Kadmiel;
10  And their brethren, Shebaniah, Hodijah, Kelita, Pelaiah, Hanan,
11  Micha, Rehob, Hashabiah,
12  Zaccur, Sherebiah, Shebaniah,
13  Hodijah, Bani, Beninu.
14  The chief of the people; Parosh, Pahathmoab, Elam, Zatthu, Bani,
15  Bunni, Azgad, Bebai,
16  Adonijah, Bigvai, Adin,
17  Ater, Hizkijah, Azzur,
18  Hodijah, Hashum, Bezai,
19  Hariph, Anathoth, Nebai,
20  Magpiash, Meshullam, Hezir,
21  Meshezabeel, Zadok, Jaddua,
22  Pelatiah, Hanan, Anaiah,
23  Hoshea, Hananiah, Hashub,
24  Hallohesh, Pileha, Shobek,
25  Rehum, Hashabnah, Maaseiah,
26  And Ahijah, Hanan, Anan,
27  Malluch, Harim, Baanah.

 

You may be able to find more.  Is it likely that that many of those who returned at first were still alive if the longer chronology is followed?

 

OK I was trying to quote only the bible and not 'history'  Modern chronology is based on the teahings of one Claudius Ptolemy who wrote in the 2nd century AD.  He gave a list of supposed Persian kings which made the length of the Persian empire about  205 years.  However Jewish and Persian traditions gave it only 53 years. Ptolemy was a pagan astrologer, astronomer who taught that the sun went round the earth.  He probably made only guesses as to the number of Persian kings and the length of their reigns.

 

History 2.  Josephus the Jewish Historian said that Cyrus gave the command to build the city and the temple.  He probably gave the Jewish understanding of the time. ((About 100 AD +/-)

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Mike, as you probably realize, I wasn't saying that no other source should ever be looked at. My only point was/is that the Bible is sufficient in itself. As you pointed out, we don't "need" the historical proofs of the Bible's accuracy, but there is nothing wrong with noting them.

 

The problem comes when some take sources other than Scripture as being equal to or greater than Scripture. Along this same line are those who may say that history proves "A" in the Bible is true, but history is silent on "B" so I can't fully believe what the Bible says about "B" and on point "C" history seems to contradict the Bible so something is wrong with that portion of Scripture.

 

In cases such as those, it must be sola scriptura, which in it's real meaning is simply that the Bible is the full and final authority; all other sources must bow to Scripture.

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Zechariah 14:1-5

1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.

2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

 

(((At the middle of the tribulation the Lord will come down to help Israel escape the armies of antichrist which are under the control of the devil who has been cast to the earth)))

 

3Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

 

Revelation 12:13-16

13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

 

((When the army of antichrist follows Israel down the valley, the mountain will close and swallow the army as the Red Sea swallowed the army of Eygpt))

 

15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.

16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

 

((When the lamb (Lord) comes to Israel she will flee to the river ford on the Arnon River which is 1/3 of the way south on the Jordan side of the Dead Sea.))

 

Isaiah 16:1-5

1 Send ye the lamb to the ruler of the land from Sela to the wilderness, unto the mount of the daughter of Zion.

2 For it shall be, that, as a wandering bird cast out of the nest, so the daughters of Moab shall be at the fords of Arnon.

3 Take counsel, execute judgment; make thy shadow as the night in the midst of the noonday; hide the outcasts; bewray not him that wandereth.

4Let mine outcasts dwell with thee, Moab; be thou a covert to them from the face of the spoiler: for the extortioner is at an end, the spoiler ceaseth, the oppressors are consumed out of the land.

5 And in mercy shall the throne be established: and he shall sit upon it in truth in the tabernacle of David, judging, and seeking judgment, and hasting righteousness.

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Nehemiah, cup-bearer to King Artaxerxes, is sad because the walls of Jerusalem lay in ruins. Nehemiah ch 1-2

 

"the wall of Jerusalem also is broken down, and the gates thereof are burned with fire." Nehemiah 1:3b

 

"And it came to pass in the month Nisan, in the twentieth year of Artaxerxes the king, that wine was before him: and I took up the wine,

and gave it unto the king. Now I had not been beforetime sad in his presence.

Wherefore the king said unto me, Why is thy countenance sad, seeing thou art not sick? this is nothing else but sorrow of heart.

Then I was very sore afraid, And said unto the king, Let the king live for ever: why should not my countenance be sad, when the city,

the place of my fathers' sepulchres, lieth waste, and the gates thereof are consumed with fire?

Then the king said unto me, For what dost thou make request? So I prayed to the God of heaven.

And I said unto the king, If it please the king, and if thy servant have found favour in thy sight, that thou wouldest send me unto Judah,

unto the city of my fathers' sepulchres, that I may build it. And the king said unto me, (the queen also sitting by him,)

For how long shall thy journey be? and when wilt thou return? So it pleased the king to send me; and I set him a time.

Moreover I said unto the king, If it please the king, let letters be given me to the governors beyond the river, that they may convey
me over till I come into Judah; And a letter unto Asaph the keeper of the king's forest, that he may give me timber to make beams
for the gates of the palace which appertained to the house, and for the wall of the city, and for the house that I shall enter into.
And the king granted me, according to the good hand of my God upon me." Nehemiah 2:1-8 (see Nehemiah ch 1-6)
 
"in the month Nisan, in the twentieth year of Artaxerxes the king"
 
"Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment
to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks,
and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times."
Daniel 9:25 (read the "fine print")
 

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II Chronicles 36:23 23  Thus saith Cyrus king of Persia,  " All the kingdoms of the earth hath the LORD God of heaven given me; and he hath charged me to build him an house in Jerusalem, which is in Judah."

 

Ezra 2  Thus saith Cyrus king of Persia, "The LORD God of heaven hath given me all the kingdoms of the earth; and he hath charged me to build him an house at Jerusalem, which is in Judah."

 

Where is that charge given?  Here 

 

Is 44:28  That saith of Cyrus, He is my shepherd, and shall perform all my pleasure: even saying to Jerusalem, Thou shalt be built; and to the temple, Thy foundation shall be laid.
 

 

Nehemiah had returned with the first exiles.  He knew at that time full well that the walls were in ruins. They must have been destroyed again after being rebuilt in the troublous times.

 

The city was rebuilt before the temple.  Haggai 1:1-4.

1 ¶  In the second year of Darius the king, in the sixth month, in the first day of the month, came the word of the LORD by Haggai the prophet unto Zerubbabel the son of Shealtiel, governor of Judah, and to Joshua the son of Josedech, the high priest, saying,
2  Thus speaketh the LORD of hosts, saying, This people say, The time is not come, the time that the LORD’S house should be built.
3  Then came the word of the LORD by Haggai the prophet, saying,
4  Is it time for you, O ye, to dwell in your cieled houses, and this house lie waste?
5  Now therefore thus saith the LORD of hosts; Consider your ways.

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You could do worse than read Martin Anstey's Romance of Bible Chronology. 

 

You can download it here.  http://www.amen.org.uk/anstey/

 

Anstey says that there is, in the scripture a complete bible chronology from Adam to Christ.  But if we take the command to be that of Artaxerexes, there is a gap in what otherwise is a complete chronology. 

 

Here is an extract from him regarding the length of the Persian Empire.
 

 In Ptolemy's Table of the Persian Kings, all the Julian years from Xerxes
to Alexander the Great inclusive are connumerary.  Therefore each requires to
be raised a unit higher to give the Julian years in which their reigns began.
Ptolemy reckons by the vague Egyptian year of 365 days.  The Julian year is
exactly 365 1/4 days.  Had Ptolemy never written, profane Chronology must have
remained to this day in a state of ambiguity and confusion, utterly
unintelligible and useless, nor would it have been possible to have
ascertained from the writings of the Greeks or from any other source, except
from Scripture itself, the true connection between sacred Chronology and
profane, in any one single instance, before the dissolution of the Persian
Empire in the [page 20] 1st year of Alexander the Great.  Ptolemy had no means
of accurately determining the Chronology of this period, so he made the best
use of the materials he had, and contrived to <ITALIC>make<ITALIC> a Chronology.  He was a
great astronomer, a great astrologer, a great geographer, and a great
constructor of synthetic systems.  But he did not possess sufficient data to
enable him to fill the gaps, or to fix the dates of the Chronology of this
period, so he had to resort to the calculation of eclipses.  In this way then,
not by historical evidence or testimony, but by the method of astronomical
calculation, and the conjectural identification of recorded with calculated  
eclipses, the Chronology of this period of the world's history has been fixed
by Ptolemy, since when, through Eusebius and Jerome, it has won its way to
universal acceptance.  It is contradicted (1) by the national traditions of
Persia, (2) by the national traditions of the Jews, (3) by the testimony of
Josephus, and (4) by the conflicting evidence of such well-authenticated
events as the Conference of Solon with Croesus, and the flight of Themistocles
to the court of Artaxerxes Longimanus, which make the accepted Chronology
impossible.  But the human mind cannot rest in a state of perpetual doubt.  
There was this one system elaborated by Ptolemy.  There was no other except
that given in the prophecies of Daniel.  Hence, whilst the Ptolemaic astronomy
was overthrown by Copernicus in the 16th Century, the reign of the Ptolemaic
Chronology remains to this day.  There is one, and only one alternative.  The
prophecy of Daniel 9:24-27 fixes the period between the going forth of the
commandment to return and to build Jerusalem (in the first year of Cyrus) to
the cutting off of the Messiah (in the year A.D. 30) as a period of 483 years.
If this be the true Chronology of the period from the 1st year of Cyrus to the
Crucifixion, it leaves only 123 years instead of the 205 given in Ptolemy's
Canon, for the duration of the Persian Empire.

  In Ptolemy's Table of the Persian Kings, all the Julian years from Xerxes
to Alexander the Great inclusive are connumerary.  Therefore each requires to
be raised a unit higher to give the Julian years in which their reigns began.
Ptolemy reckons by the vague Egyptian year of 365 days.  The Julian year is
exactly 365 1/4 days.  Had Ptolemy never written, profane Chronology must have
remained to this day in a state of ambiguity and confusion, utterly
unintelligible and useless, nor would it have been possible to have
ascertained from the writings of the Greeks or from any other source, except
from Scripture itself, the true connection between sacred Chronology and
profane, in any one single instance, before the dissolution of the Persian
Empire in the [page 20] 1st year of Alexander the Great.  Ptolemy had no means
of accurately determining the Chronology of this period, so he made the best
use of the materials he had, and contrived to <ITALIC>make<ITALIC> a Chronology.  He was a
great astronomer, a great astrologer, a great geographer, and a great
constructor of synthetic systems.  But he did not possess sufficient data to
enable him to fill the gaps, or to fix the dates of the Chronology of this
period, so he had to resort to the calculation of eclipses.  In this way then,
not by historical evidence or testimony, but by the method of astronomical
calculation, and the conjectural identification of recorded with calculated  
eclipses, the Chronology of this period of the world's history has been fixed
by Ptolemy, since when, through Eusebius and Jerome, it has won its way to
universal acceptance.  It is contradicted (1) by the national traditions of
Persia, (2) by the national traditions of the Jews, (3) by the testimony of
Josephus, and (4) by the conflicting evidence of such well-authenticated
events as the Conference of Solon with Croesus, and the flight of Themistocles
to the court of Artaxerxes Longimanus, which make the accepted Chronology
impossible.  But the human mind cannot rest in a state of perpetual doubt.  
There was this one system elaborated by Ptolemy.  There was no other except
that given in the prophecies of Daniel.  Hence, whilst the Ptolemaic astronomy
was overthrown by Copernicus in the 16th Century, the reign of the Ptolemaic
Chronology remains to this day.  There is one, and only one alternative.  The
prophecy of Daniel 9:24-27 fixes the period between the going forth of the
commandment to return and to build Jerusalem (in the first year of Cyrus) to
the cutting off of the Messiah (in the year A.D. 30) as a period of 483 years.
If this be the true Chronology of the period from the 1st year of Cyrus to the
Crucifixion, it leaves only 123 years instead of the 205 given in Ptolemy's
Canon, for the duration of the Persian Empire.

 

 

 

     But the true point of departure for the 70 weeks, and therefore for the
483 years also, is unquestionably the 1st year of Cyrus (Dan. 9, 2 Chron.
36:20-23, Ezra 1:1-4, Isa. 44:28, 45:1-4,13), and no other epoch would ever
have been suggested but for the fact that the count of the years was lost, and
wrongly restored from Ptolemy's conjectural astronomical calculations.

 


     The one great fundamental fact to be remembered is the fact that modern
Chronology rests upon the calculations of Ptolemy as published in his Canon or
List of Reigns.  And since the foundation of Greek Conjectural Computation
Chronology, upon which Ptolemy's Canon rests, is unstable, the superstructure
is likewise insecure.  Ptolemy may be called as a witness.  He cannot be
allowed to arbitrate as a Judge.  He cannot take the place of a Court of Final
Appeal.  He cannot be erected into a standard by which to correct the
Chronology of the text of the Old Testament.

 

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Lets get back to the simplicity of the Word of God:

 

Daniel is given the prophecy:

24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

70 weeks - 490 years takes us to the finished saving work of Jesus & the completion of prophecy. 

 

25 Know therefore and understand , that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again , and the wall, even in troublous times. 26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off , but not for himself:

That places the anointing - baptism & filling of the Holy Spirit on Jesus as the end of the 69th week. After that we see the crucifixion of Messiah. During & after the remaining, 70th week further events take place. The ministry of Jesus, the new covenant made & proclaimed - & destruction for those who reject their Messiah.

 

and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined . 27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease , and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate , even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate .

Jesus' Olivet prophecy confirms that destruction he & Gabriel (Daniel) prophesied would take place within a generation.

 

 

 

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