If the rapture happens...

[PastorHarrison]

The "age of accountability" if not a Biblical phrase, is indeed a scriptural truth nonetheless. It entails not necessarily a knowledge of one's sins, {for ignorance of sin is by no means an excuse} but rather the reaching of a point of comprehension of the condemnation of sin, the great mercy of God's plan of redemption through the sacrifice of his Lamb on the cross once for all. In short, this "age of accountability" is not a numeric value of years, but an awakened spirit of comprehending of 1. What has happened by sin. 2. What consequence that has upon the soul. 3. What has been done to redeem or save from that consequence. 4. By whom it was done and 5. How one by faith can obtain redemption. One need not fully understand ALL the consequences of sin, nor ALL the depths of its impact. One need not fully comprehend ALL the riches of redemption nor posses full faculties of understanding what redemption brings..... but must rather know he or she is Lost, can be Saved, how and by whom.

I was saved at age 7 and still today am learning how deep that well is from which I was given the water so long ago. Some may not reach this point of comprehending till they are older..... still some, due various mental defect (there is no sweet way to put that) may never be capable of grasping "salvation".

This "age of accountability" [in my opinion] is subjective to many factors.....most predominantly of which is maturity of reasoning. When I was a child I understood as a child.....so a child does indeed "understand" more and more as they grow. Unlike the Ethiopian Eunuch who didn't understand because of spiritual blindness.....a child may understand far sooner than we think.

The big danger is "picking green fruit" as they say.....professions of acceptance and understanding which are born not of realization, but of an overzealous labourer.

[JerryNumbers]

The "age of accountability" if not a Biblical phrase, is indeed a scriptural truth nonetheless. It entails not necessarily a knowledge of one's sins, {for ignorance of sin is by no means an excuse} but rather the reaching of a point of comprehension of the condemnation of sin, the great mercy of God's plan of redemption through the sacrifice of his Lamb on the cross once for all. In short, this "age of accountability" is not a numeric value of years, but an awakened spirit of comprehending of 1. What has happened by sin. 2. What consequence that has upon the soul. 3. What has been done to redeem or save from that consequence. 4. By whom it was done and 5. How one by faith can obtain redemption. One need not fully understand ALL the consequences of sin, nor ALL the depths of its impact. One need not fully comprehend ALL the riches of redemption nor posses full faculties of understanding what redemption brings..... but must rather know he or she is Lost, can be Saved, how and by whom.

I was saved at age 7 and still today am learning how deep that well is from which I was given the water so long ago. Some may not reach this point of comprehending till they are older..... still some, due various mental defect (there is no sweet way to put that) may never be capable of grasping "salvation".

This "age of accountability" [in my opinion] is subjective to many factors.....most predominantly of which is maturity of reasoning. When I was a child I understood as a child.....so a child does indeed "understand" more and more as they grow. Unlike the Ethiopian Eunuch who didn't understand because of spiritual blindness.....a child may understand far sooner than we think.

The big danger is "picking green fruit" as they say.....professions of acceptance and understanding which are born not of realization, but of an overzealous labourer.

True, some really do press for numbers, so much so they do rush some of today's youth in to making a decision to accept Jesus as Savior and not understanding it.

I know of a young man who surrendered to preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ at church camp, which very shortly after that he fell out of church.

There was few who thought he was pressured, perhaps he was and that led to him falling out.

I and a few others have tried to reach this young man with no success. He and his wife recently divorced. I feel he is in total rebellion against God brought about by some well meaning over zealous Christians.

I just do not understand the pressure tactics some use.

[PastorHarrison]

Wish I could say I don't know preachers, particularly the young ones, who have fallen, but I am afraid I do.... several. I Tim 3:6 Not a novice....." Every 11-17 yr old boy I hear profess a surrender to the call to preach makes me almost want to look away and squint one eye so as not to see whats coming next.....

I know not a few who did so, and then either fell in sin shortely thereafter or were altogether ruined in Seminary by "scholarship" and education.

[JerryNumbers]

Wish I could say I don't know preachers, particularly the young ones, who have fallen, but I am afraid I do.... several. I Tim 3:6 Not a novice....." Every 11-17 yr old boy I hear profess a surrender to the call to preach makes me almost want to look away and squint one eye so as not to see whats coming next.....

I know not a few who did so, and then either fell in sin shortely thereafter or were altogether ruined in Seminary by "scholarship" and education.

Yes, I'm with you on this. Just around this small town I live outside of I probably can count at least 10 who surrendered to the Lord to preach in Baptist Churches at a young age, them before they were 30 they fell completely out of church, most of them from the position of pastor.

I understand well what I said about is not Gospel, but the Gospel does give a guide line for a church to go by, some churches have helped set a young novice up for failure. Such failures do not bring glory to Jesus nor His Churches.

Seems to me many churches just use those part listed for the qualification for a pastor, that they want to use, them forget about the others. I've took heat thru the years for standing on all of them, but that's OK, I expect it.

[PastorHarrison]

As a counterbalance, let me say this: I also have seen many young men surrender to a call to preach, face seemingly insurmountable odds against false teaching, false education, liberal seminaries, unstable home (sending I mean) church and still turn out to be solid rock preachers..... So too I've seen some that seemed to have a feather-bed path to the pulpit, do well for years and then blow a tire because of their own lusts..... none of which had anything to do with their initial calling, sending church or anyone else.....they just got baited off the path by the Devil's little lures....

My point is, sometimes a man just falls into sin.... Demas if you will.....just another preacher that stuck his hand into the devil's cookie jar and found it securely trapped therein.

[Guest Guest]

Great points, Pastors! Praise God that He knows the big picture in this "sinful" world.

Discernment is difficult. After all, Christians are human. :smile

[1Timothy115]

I just reviewed this thread. I will search for any help understanding this question.
I too have an oldest son who I unsure about his salvation.

[Guest Guest]

My hubby and I have talked about this many times. The "onced saved always saved" applies. Can I ask how old your son is, Tim? Maybe, some other thoughts on this?

[1Timothy115]

My hubby and I have talked about this many times. The "onced saved always saved" applies. Can I ask how old your son is' date=' Tim? Maybe, some other thoughts on this?[/quote']

33 years young.
Captain USAF.
Golf occupies his thoughts even in winter.

He had his first bout with the flu at 5. He leaned over the potty, as I held his forehead with one hand and stomach with the other. Between heaves, he said, "Daddy, pray for me, I think I'm gonna die."

[Guest Guest]

Tim, might I suggest that you PM one of the mods or pastors on this. I think that might help to get some answers or thoughts, anyway.

33 years young.
Captain USAF.
Golf occupies his thoughts even in winter.


Praise God! A captain in the USAF!!

I know what you mean about golf. Actually, sports in general will "occupy" some people's thoughts during every season---sometimes.

:pray for your oldest son.

[JerryNumbers]

True, well said, but I surely believe we set some up to fall, and God had a good reason for saying not a novice, but someone who has been tried and you've seen they held a steady course. Of course, anyone can fall into sin, anyone who thinks they can't, they're setting their self up for a fall.

And on another subject.
If your unsure of your sons salvation, if he will talk to you about it, question him, ask him the question, "If you were to die right now, would you go to heaven?

This is finally what I did with my father-in-law, yes I had tried at other times, but some how he would always evade it. This time he answer me, saying, "Yes, I believe I would, I know I've been much better than many Christians."

After which I asked him, "Coy, would you like to know for sure, you know, we are all getting older, that means we have fewer years till death comes to us & or Jesus comes."

This time he told me, yes Jerry, I would like to know, so we went down the Romans road, he discover that if he had already died that he would not have gone to heaven, at that point he was ready to know the way. he did accept Jesus as his Savior. I encourage him to attend church and tell his pastor what he had done, the very next Sunday morning he walked the aisle, his age about 78 or 79, them that night he was baptized along with one of his 13 year old grandsons.

Some of the family members got on to me for not telling them about this right after it took place. I told them it was not for me to tell, it was up to Coy to tell people about it, and I surely would never want to do anything that would undermined someone in that situation.

And if not you, perhaps you know of someone who could talk with your son about this matter.

[1Timothy115]

This is not the answer to the proposed question but, it does provide some light into parts of the discussion which followed. In the Encylopedia of Bible Difficulties by Gleason L. Archer, I found the following:

?But since infanticide is sternly condemned in Scripture as an abomination before God (Lev. 18:21; Deut. 12:31; 2 Chron. 28:3; Isa. 57:5; Jer. 19:4-7), even when perpetrated in the name of religion, we must conclude that there is some other principle involved in the salvation of infants besides their managing to die in infancy. That is to say, the omniscience of God extends not only to the actual but also to the potential. He foreknows not only whatever will happen but also whatever would happen. In the case of babies who die at birth or before they reach the age of accountability, God knows what their response would be to the proffers of His grace, whether acceptance or rejection, whether faith or unbelief.?

Also, the comment about David and his infant son is mentioned here by Archer. He infers this may be why David can be consoled because, he turns the matter over to the will of God. (paraphrase)

I?m looking to see if there is more in this volume about children. I hope to have a moment to ask my pastor. I missed that opportunity today. We added a new member to our family ?Winston? a 1

[Guest Guest]

Great information, Tim. :thumb

He foreknows not only whatever will happen but also whatever would happen. In the case of babies who die at birth or before they reach the age of accountability' date=' God knows what their response would be to the proffers of His grace, whether acceptance or rejection, whether faith or unbelief.?[/quote']

[PastorHarrison]

I say infants, toddlers.....some on up through maybe even 6 to 11 yrs old could be considered to not have reached the age of accountability because they're "spiritually blind" while others, depending upon the circumstances of life and background and other factors, could be old enough to understand if their parents were'n't flopped out of church.

Jesus said in John 9:41 "if ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth."

Many then, by virtue of their understanding and age are blind. They could not understand even if they had the Bible in front of them and a preacher to explain it. Others however, have reached the point where their eyes are opened...and they can see and determine and choose.... I tend to think, when a person is old enough and comprehends enough to know and "see" that "what I am doing is wrong....wicked....intentional.....and I 'know' that it is such", they may well be and probably are getting close to old enough to know the consequences and reason for it.

[Guest Guest]

[quote="PastorHarrison"]I tend to think, when a person is old enough and comprehends enough to know and "see" that "what I am doing is wrong....wicked....intentional.....and I 'know' that it is such", they may well be and probably are getting close to old enough to know the consequences and reason for it.[/quote]


:goodpost: PastorHarrison. "I tend to think" that, too. Actually, my hubby did first...and, with prayer, fellowship, and Bible reading and study...the Holy Spirit spoke that to me, as well. Thank you for posting this. :thumb

My MIL has a little phrase (I don't know if you have heard it) "There is comfort "sometimes" in not knowing."