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What Ever Happened To Christmas?

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COMMENTARY BY MILTON LOPEZ DELGADO

Another year has come gone. The frantic shopping frenzy and stampedes for the best bargains in the stores are over. We must, however, do what we must to keep: "The True Spirit of Christmas" alive in our hearts and minds every day instead of just once a year. Sadly, and perhaps to the dismay of many believers, people have once again decorated their homes, gardens, decks, and porches displaying the wanders of the Holiday Season and the Radio Stations aired all the traditional holidays songs we've heard over and over again, most of which about fictional stories and imaginary characters that have nothing to do with the true meaning of Christmas whatsoever. The one I loath the most is the one about Grand Ma getting run over by you know what. There's nothing wrong with these traditions, however, when the "'Manager Scene" is left out of the mix, in my opinion: Everything else becomes null, void, and just plain meaningless! Just a total waste of time and effort! You can be asssured, however, that santa and his reindeer took center stage along with all the other imaginary characters and noveltie shows: Frosty, Rudolph, Micky Mouse, The Grinch, The Ginger Bread Man, trees with multicolored lights, Little Toy Trains, Candy Canes; and all the other useless distractions society has imposed on us to replace who really matters at Christmas. The Spirit of Christmas is Jesus not Santa. How we allowed society to reverse the order is beyond me. Shame on us! What do any of these ficticious characters and things have to do with the true meaning of Christmas anyway? My answer: NOTHING WHATSOEVER! An overweight bearded man wearing a red suit has replaced: "The Baby Jesus". We've all been duped especially our children into thinking that he actually comes down a chimney and brings them gifts. What a crock! Just like the stupid bunny rabbit has replaced: Easter! How pathetic is that? Take your own poll: Who do Children relate to on Christmas and Easter? Santa and a Bunny Rabbit or Our Lord And Savior Jesus Christ and His Ascension? You know the answer without taking a poll. Isn't time we believers start speaking out and educating the masses about what and who Christmas is only about? The song I'm sending you is entitled: "Great Love"; it reminds us of exactly that! It is my hope and prayer that you will take the time to listen; pay special attention to the lyrics; and afterwards, join me in passing-on the truth about Christmas and discard everything else...share the message with family, friends and anyone else you can reach. It's our duty as believers! It's high time we get back to celebrating: The Birth of Our Lord And Savior Jesus Christ; not only on December 25th, but throughout the year! Thank you and God Bless!

Milton Lopez Delgado

miltonandwanda@verizon.net

(570) 848-1682

http://www.qfpost.com/file/d?g=fRWs3eI5q

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December 25, is a fable. We know it was warm weather the shepherds was sleeping outside at night. The Catholics was fighting the pagan winter festivals so they hatched up this day as His birth. They was smart enough to make it a mass or meal as in Luke 22:19. Saying "merry Christmas" is the same as saying "happy Lord's supper". Today we are so stupid we put on manager shows, that is not what Jesus said to do in remembrance of Him. The pagan's loved to celebrate the birth, that really helped in starting this "Holyday". We can't put Jesus birth into a special day because when He was preaching He never told us to do that. The apostles never taught us it was a special celebration to be honored each year. Its not like Sunday, we know He arose on that day. In the end if we want to honor Jesus we should keep his commandments and love the brethren.

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Where in the Bible does it say the shepherds were sleeping?  :frog:
 

 

Do I think December 25 is the actual day of Christ's birth? Not really. What I do know is that we don't know when it actually was. So if a person chooses to remember His first coming on December 25, they have the liberty to do so.  Just as you have the liberty to not. What we do not have the liberty to do, however, is judge others for choosing to celebrate that day.

 

"Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:" Col. 2:16

 

What if those that celebrate Christmas are wrong - like really wrong - and God does not like their celebration of that day? He will take care of it.

 

"Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand." Rom. 14:4


 

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The Great Deception

James Foley

 

 

Text: 2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

 

 

Introduction:

 

1. There is a great deception that has spread throughout the whole world. Exposing this deception is not going to make me, or anyone else that preaches it very popular with the world and sad to say, we will not be very popular with some of God’s people either. The reason is simplicity itself, for this particular deception has come about through so called Christianity. Although it did not originally start with Christianity, it has been adopted and perpetuated by so called Christians and even by our beloved Baptist churches in the last century.

 

This particular deception is so insidious that virtually no one even thinks to question its teaching. PrOBably the most insidious aspect of this deception is that it is so ingrained in our culture and even our churches, that we see no reason to question it. It comes to us in the form of truth, is believed by pastors, teachers and even the Bible colleges that have trained them. To the un-churched masses it is unquestionably “religious”. While it needs to be pointed out that this deception is religious at its roots, it must also be pointed out that it is false religion, not Bible truth, nor is it Bible based.

 

It is deeply rooted in Pagan religion and can be directly traced back to the worship of Baal, which is vehemently spoken against by God and His prophets. At this point you might be thinking that you have never heard anything Pagan in your church services; but you would be wrong. You have been deceived just like so many others. This Paganism wears a veneer of Christianity. Remember that a veneer makes one material look like something quite different, many times it covers something quite ugly. This is a very apt description of my subject today, which, if you have not guessed it yet, is Christmas.

 

It may come as a surprise to most, but the original OBservance of this holiday has nothing to do with Jesus Christ. It does, however, have everything to do with the Pagan Roman god Sol Invictus, the Sun god, and with the false “Christ” of apostate Christendom and the Roman Catholic Mass.

 

As far as churches OBserving this holiday, it has come down to us through time, first through the Catholic Church and then through her daughters the Protestants. This should not be a surprise because God shows us the true identity and character of this supposed church: Rev 17:5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

 

a. We have supposed Christmas to be the chief of the Christian holidays. Without asking questions, we have blindly assumed that Christmas must be one of the principal teachings and commands of the New Testament. Nothing could be further from the truth. Christmas is not as much as MENTIONED anywhere in the New Testament. It was never OBserved by Paul, the apostles, or the early true Christian Church! We are never told to OBserve the birth of Christ as a holiday, or even a religious day. As a matter of fact, by contrast we are commanded to OBserve His death as a continual memorial.

1Cor 11:26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.

 

b. Few realize and would be shocked to know, that Christmas was not officially celebrated by the first church at Jerusalem, Baptists, or Pilgrims, Puritans, Presbyterians, Congregationalists, and other Protestant denominations until the second half of the 19th Century.

 

Until the recent era you would not be able to find a Baptist who would have anything to do with this pagan feast. It has now become a “sacred cow” in many “Baptist” churches, and woe be to the one who speaks a word against any of them.

 

The Puritans, Baptists, Quakers, Presbyterians, Calvinists and other denominations brought the opposition to Christmas to early New England and strong opposition to the holiday lasted in America until the middle of the 18th century.

 

2. In many of our churches today, those who preach what they call a Christmas message will readily admit that Dec. 25th. is not the birthday of Jesus. They will rightly tell the church that no one actually knows the date of His birth because the Bible does not tell us. This alone should give pause to the celebration of Christmas. Why OBserve unscriptural fables, or worse something that has its roots in the worship of the Babylonian god Baal? We teach of the birth of Christ, for it is Scriptural, but nowhere are we told to celebrate it.

 

a. How is it then, that up until 150 years ago the truth of Christmas was known among Baptists, but now, 150 years later we accept it like it was Gospel? The answer is that Satan has instituted a master piece of deception. He has succeeded in convincing Christians that Christmas is a holy day. Every successive generation has grown up with this thinking. The church no longer condemns it; the world has even bought into this great deception, so it is all around us on every side.

 

Jesus said that the church is the pillar and ground of the truth, and so it is. But if the truth is not preached or reinforced Scripturally, then how are the generations that follow to recognize truth from error? God told us how to deal with this sort of heresy. But in these last days before Jesus returns we have become complacent. 2Pe 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

 4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

 

b. The Bible tells us in no uncertain terms how men of God are to deal with things of this nature: Isa 58:1 Cry aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet, and shew my people their transgression, and the house of JacOB their sins.

If we couple this verse with our original verse in the beginning of this lesson, we will be a long way down the road to being the pillar and ground of the truth. 2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

 

We cannot possibly cry aloud and show God’s people their sins until we first see them as sins. In order to do this our eyes must be opened and we must not be a part of those very sins. We cannot be a part of this present evil world and also condemn it at the some time, this is hypocrisy. The Scripture commands us to “come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.” 2Cor 6:17

 

I would like to show you the real historical facts concerning Christmas, like where it came from, how it came to be and how it became entrenched in our churches. You can find lots of information regarding Christmas and its origin in any encyclopedia.

 

c. Of course we can trace this custom back even further than the Pagans. We can trace it all the way back to Babylon. In ancient Babylon, the feast of the Son of Isis (Goddess of Nature) was celebrated on December 25. Raucous partying, gluttonous eating and drinking, and gift-giving were traditions of this feast. This is where the modern OBservance of Christmas on the 25th. of December comes from originally.

 

The word "Christmas" literally means "Mass of Christ" or, as it later became shortened, "Christ-Mass." Ironically, in the Roman Catholic Church the word, “Mass” means “death”. It came to us as a Roman Catholic mass. And where did they get it? From the HEATHEN celebration of December 25th, as the birthday of Sol Invictus the SUN GOD! It is, actually, an ancient rite of BAALISM, which the Bible condemns as the most abominable of all idolatrous worship!

 

There are many other things that go along with Christmas that are unquestionably Pagan in origin and can be traced back to Babylon and the worship of the Sun God Sol Invictus. We don’t have the time in one lesson to deal with all of them, but to simply name a few they are; The Christmas Tree, Holly, The Yule Log, Mistle Toe and even Santa Clause.

Jer 10:2 Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.

 3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.

 4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.

 

3. Someone may say, “but we are not really worshiping Pagan Gods and their customs, we are just following the customs we have been brought up with from childhood.” But Scripture is very clear regarding God’s people following the ways of the heathen.

Deut. 12:30 Take heed to thyself that thou be not snared by following them, after that they be destroyed from before thee; and that thou enquire not after their gods, saying, How did these nations serve their gods? Even so will I do likewise.

 31 Thou shalt not do so unto the LORD thy God: for every abomination to the LORD, which he hateth, have they done unto their gods; for even their sons and their daughters they have burnt in the fire to their gods.

 

When God’s people went into the lands that God gave them, they were instructed to utterly destroy anything to do with the worship of the people of those lands.

This is why God told Israel to cut down the groves, destroy the idols and altars of the heathen and not take their daughters to wife. It is all too easy to fall into the ways of the heathen if everything was left in place just because it was expedient. We see this time and time again in the history of Israel; The Bible tells us that the people did evil in the sight of the Lord again. They were continually drawing away from God and toward false gods simply because the false gods and false religion was starkly “in their face”, so to speak.

 

a. The plain truth is that Christmas is NOT Christ's birthday at all! And this festival, important as it seems to so many, is not Christian. Even secular history records this holiday as Pagan.

 

There is not one word in the New Testament, or anywhere in the Bible, telling us to OBserve Christmas. The Christians of the first century, under the inspired teachings of Peter and Paul and the other apostles, never OBserved it. There is NO BIBLE AUTHORITY for its OBservance, strange as it may seem. Christmas was not among the earliest teaching of the church. It was not instituted by Christ or the apostles, or by Bible authority — it was picked up by the Roman Catholic Church afterward from Paganism.

 

This is what the bible calls another gospel: Gal 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

 7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

 9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

 

b. Recognized historic authorities show Christmas was NOT OBserved by Christians for the first two or three hundred years — a period longer than the entire history of the United States as a nation! It got into the Western, or Roman Church, by the FOURTH century A.D. It was not until the FIFTH century that the Roman Church ordered it to be celebrated as an official "Christian" festival! But if Christmas is really a Christian holiday, then why isn't it even mentioned ONCE in the entire Bible, especially the New Testament? Why are the apostles totally silent about OBservance of this day? Where did it really come from, and how and when did it enter the professing Church?

 

c. The answer to this question is much the same as for many of the doctrines of the Roman Catholic Church. In their quest to convert the pagans and bring them into the church, they found it convenient to allow the Pagans to bring in their customs and festivals. Consequently the Roman church officially sanctioned these and made them their own.

 

And that is how "Christmas" got into our so-called Christianity! We may call it by another NAME, but it's the same old pagan sun-worshipping festival still! The only CHANGE is in what we CALL IT! You can call a rabbit a "LION," but it's a RABBIT, just the same.

Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

 19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

 20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

 21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

 22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

 23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

 

d. Now it is true that most Christians have bought into this lie through ignorance, there is another great Bible truth to be realized in this respect. There are sins of ignorance and there are also presumptuous sins. A person sins through ignorance when he simply doesn’t know that what he is doing is a sin. But a presumptuous sin comes about once a person knows the truth and chooses to continue on in what God has revealed as sin.

Here are two examples of this truth.

 

Num 15:27 And if any soul sin through ignorance, then he shall bring a she goat of the first year for a sin offering.

 28 And the priest shall make an atonement for the soul that sinneth ignorantly, when he sinneth by ignorance before the LORD, to make an atonement for him; and it shall be forgiven him.

 

Num 15:30 But the soul that doeth ought presumptuously, whether he be born in the land, or a stranger, the same reproacheth the LORD; and that soul shall be cut off from among his people.

 31 Because he hath despised the word of the LORD, and hath broken his commandment, that soul shall utterly be cut off; his iniquity shall be upon him.

God is serious about sin among His people. But He is also loving, just and righteous. We see in these two verses both a provision for sins of ignorance, as well as righteous condemnation for sins committed when a person knows better.

 

Although many churches and pastors may be ignorant of the origins of Christmas, they may be guilty of a presumptuous sin if they continue in it once they have known the truth. Some continue to OBserve this holiday out of expedience and a sense of not wanting to make people uncomfortable.

 

Some even justify OBserving Christmas by saying that this is one of only a couple of days that unbelievers flock to churches to hear a Christmas message. God does not compromise His Word in this manner and a church that will give in to this compromise is in danger of losing its place as a church. Jesus said this to the church at Ephesus:

Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

 

When God removes the candlestick from a church it has lost its power. The candlestick is symbolic of the power and presence of the Holy Spirit. In Revelation we see seven candlesticks that represent the seven churches of Asia. To remove one of the candlesticks is to remove that church.

 

e. There is nothing wrong with preaching the Gospel on this pagan holiday, just don’t call it a Christmas message. After all, the Gospel includes the birth of the Savior as well as His substitutionary death for our sins. But make it clear that we are not preaching this on this day because it is the birthday of Christ, we are preaching it because it is the Gospel. Do away with all the trappings of Christmas; wreaths, ribbons, bows, Christmas trees, ornaments, manger scenes and all the things that go to make up a traditional Christmas scene. They are all idols and the Bible speaks expressly about making idols, or images of anything in heaven or earth. The manger scenes set up at Christmas time are not only an abomination as idols; they are also inaccurate. The wise men pictured did not find Jesus in a manger; they found him three years later in a house. Mat 2:11 And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense, and myrrh.

 

Exo 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

 4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:

 

These things have no place in the church of The Living God. To incorporate elements of Pagan idolatry into the worship of our God “is to change the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.”

Edited by Jim_Alaska

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Jim_Alaska

Good article, I think the same goes for Easter, however I brought up the possibility of not having a Christmas tree at home one time and I got the feeling that If I had made a decision to not have a tree, then it might have been me who had to go rather than the tree, so strong is the love of the traditions of Christmas and Easter. I did leave a fellowship once because we got a new pastor and he announced that it was 'holy week' next week, I almost bounced out of my pew instantaneously, but so not to embarrass my wife I waited till the end of the meeting.

I Usually Avoid church at Christmas and Easter time. I think that for some things it takes a spiritual leader to encourage a congregation in such matters.

I have heard studies which say that Pagan Religion often has a male and a female deity, I wonder if that is Easter and the Sun God in our culture, if so this might be the rat poison which is polluting the whole atmosphere of the spiritual realm.

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Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

Isn't this verse talking about Jewish days, and in context it means that we don't need to keep them?

Aren't we supposed to tear down strongholds which exalt themselves above the knowledge of God?

Have any of you seen Zeitgeist the Movie? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeitgeist_(film_series)

It was used to launch a movement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Zeitgeist_Movement

Like the Dan Brown books it is a movement which uses movies as propaganda, They use the fact that Christmas is a pagan date in order to promote their view that Christianity is actually a branch of the Mystery Religion, I can't recall all the details but they point out all the pagan symbols used in Christianity in order to draw the lost into their agenda which is some sort of New Age Communist thing. My point being that if the church drops Easter and Christmas then they will be making a clearer sound.

Edited by Old-Pilgrim
tech'

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I am with you, Old-Pilgrim. I won't reject a person who holds these traditions, but I DO teach against them, Easter and Christmas, because of their particularly pagan origins. At our church we celebrate Resurrection Sunday, always on the Sunday closest after Passover, since that was when Jesus was resurrected. Sometimes it co-incides with easter, sometimes it can be up to a month away. As for Christmas, I admit I love many of the songs, so, since we really don't know WHEN Jesus was born, we sing them throughout the year. I believe it is good to celebrate Jesus' birth, but we should celebrate it all the time. We may have a yearly remembrance of His resurrection, but we can't forget that this is why the churches meet on the first day of the week-to remember Jesus' resurrection and first meetings with His church on the first day.

Personally, I lean toward Jesus being born around this time of the year, September-Nov, being when the Passover lambs were born. This would explain why the shepherds were in the fields with their flock at night, and not in the paddock-they were loose for lambing/kidding. And since Jesus died with the Passover lambs, ON Passover,, it makes sense He would complete the picture by being born during the season they were born.

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On 21/09/2014, 03:11:26, Jim_Alaska said:

The Great Deception

James Foley

Great post James.  I managed to get rid of the tree in our church after several years of trying,  One year we had a large tree with what I thought was a large fairy on top.  When I objected to that, the then pastor's wife said "It isn't a fairy, it is the Angel Gabriel"  Where does it say in the scripture that Gabriel sat on top of a tree?  

There are many births but  only two birthdays mentioned in scripture and the both ended in someone's death. Pharaoh's baker and John the Baptist.  

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IMO, many people enjoy Christmas because it's a time to be with family and remember family memories. You can talk about the pagan roots all you want but a Christmas tree reminds them of their childhood and a special time they may have spent with grandma and grandpa or whatever. I can hardly remember any of the junk I got for Christmas but I can still remember times with my family.

Paul said something about , "use it rather". In other words, take advantage of the situation to talk about Jesus. If you launch into the pagan roots of Christmas and start blasting the holiday as being evil you will find most people will shut you off.  But if you use it to tell others about Jesus and the gospel without condemning the day than they will more likely to listen.

I remember a good up coming church that was split because of a Christmas tree in the lobby. Testimony lost.

Edited by Critical Mass

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10 hours ago, Critical Mass said:

 

I remember a good up coming church that was split because of a Christmas tree in the lobby. Testimony lost.

If it was so good why did it split? I suggest that it split because one group chose to stand for what is right and call evil what it is.....evil. They were willing to leave rather than submit to idolatry.

 Job 28:28 And unto man he said, Behold, the fear of the Lord, that is wisdom; and to depart from evil is understanding.

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5 hours ago, John81 said:

"Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:" Colossians 2:16

And of things pertaining to the heathen around them, it is said:  

2Ki 21:1 Manasseh was twelve years old when he began to reign, and reigned fifty and five years in Jerusalem. And his mother's name was Hephzibah. 
 2 And he did that which was evil in the sight of the LORD, after the abominations of the heathen, whom the LORD cast out before the children of Israel. 
 3 For he built up again the high places which Hezekiah his father had destroyed; and he reared up altars for Baal, and made a grove, as did Ahab king of Israel; and worshipped all the host of heaven, and served them. 
 4 And he built altars in the house of the LORD, of which the LORD said, In Jerusalem will I put my name. 
 5 And he built altars for all the host of heaven in the two courts of the house of the LORD. 
 6 And he made his son pass through the fire, and observed times, and used enchantments, and dealt with familiar spirits and wizards: he wrought much wickedness in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger. 
 7 And he set a graven image of the grove that he had made in the house, of which the LORD said to David, and to Solomon his son, In this house, and in Jerusalem, which I have chosen out of all tribes of Israel, will I put my name for ever: 

Christmas is not a holy day, it is a day steeped in pagan idolatry. Nowhere are we told to observe ungodly religious practices, but rather to reprove and rebuke them.

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 2Ki 17:7 For so it was, that the children of Israel had sinned against the LORD their God, which had brought them up out of the land of Egypt, from under the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt, and had feared other gods, 
 8 And walked in the statutes of the heathen, whom the LORD cast out from before the children of Israel, and of the kings of Israel, which they had made. 
 9 And the children of Israel did secretly those things that were not right against the LORD their God, and they built them high places in all their cities, from the tower of the watchmen to the fenced city. 
 10 And they set them up images and groves in every high hill, and under every green tree: 
 11 And there they burnt incense in all the high places, as did the heathen whom the LORD carried away before them; and wrought wicked things to provoke the LORD to anger: 
 12 For they served idols, whereof the LORD had said unto them, Ye shall not do this thing. 
 13 Yet the LORD testified against Israel, and against Judah, by all the prophets, and by all the seers, saying, Turn ye from your evil ways, and keep my commandments and my statutes, according to all the law which I commanded your fathers, and which I sent to you by my servants the prophets. 
 14 Notwithstanding they would not hear, but hardened their necks, like to the neck of their fathers, that did not believe in the LORD their God. 
 15 And they rejected his statutes, and his covenant that he made with their fathers, and his testimonies which he testified against them; and they followed vanity, and became vain, and went after the heathen that were round about them, concerning whom the LORD had charged them, that they should not do like them. 

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On 11/22/2015, 12:49:39, Jim_Alaska said:

If it was so good why did it split? I suggest that it split because one group chose to stand for what is right and call evil what it is.....evil. They were willing to leave rather than submit to idolatry.

 Job 28:28 And unto man he said, Behold, the fear of the Lord, that is wisdom; and to depart from evil is understanding.

Whatever you say.

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Spurgeon on Psalm 81 (extract) from the Treasury of David (The psalms)

Verse 2. Take a psalm. Select a sacred song, and then raise it with your hearty voices. And bring hither the timbrel. Beat on your tambourines, ye damsels, let the sound be loud and inspiriting. "Sound the trumpets, beat the drums." God is not to be served with misery but with mirthful music, sound ye then the loud timbrel, as of old ye smote it by "Egypt's dark sea." The pleasant harp with the psaltery. The timbrel for sound, must be joined by the harp for sweetness, and this by other stringed instruments for variety. Let the full compass of music be holiness unto the Lord.

Verse 3. Blow up the trumpet in the new moon. Announce the sacred month, the beginning of months, when the Lord brought his people out of the house of bondage. Clear and shrill let the summons be which calls all Israel to adore the Redeeming Lord. In the time appointed, on our solemn feast day. Obedience is to direct our worship, not whim and sentiment: God's appointment gives a solemnity to rites and times which no ceremonial pomp or hierarchical ordinance could confer. The Jews not only observed the ordained month, but that part of the month which had been divinely set apart. The Lord's people in the olden time welcomed the times appointed for worship; let us feel the same exultation, and never speak of the Sabbath as though it could be other than "a delight" and "honourable." Those who plead this passage will keep such feasts as the Lord appoints, but not those which Rome or Canterbury may ordain.

Verse 4. For this was a statute for Israel, and a law of the God of Jacob. It was a precept binding upon all the tribes that a sacred season should be set apart to commemorate the Lord's mercy; and truly it was but the Lord's due, he had a right and a claim to such special homage. When it can be proved that the observance of Christmas, Whitsuntide, and other Popish festivals was ever instituted by a divine statute, we also will attend to them, but not till then. It is as much our duty to reject the traditions of men, as to observe the ordinances of the Lord. We ask concerning every rite and rubric, "Is this a law of the God of Jacob?" and if it be not clearly so, it is of no authority with us, who walk in Christian liberty.

 

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With all that said and done, I am going to give my Christmas tree a big hug, yes I am keeping it and no you have not convinced me of any wrong of holding to the traditions of Christmas that I have received from childhood! Merry Christmas!

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2 hours ago, Doc Flay said:

With all that said and done, I am going to give my Christmas tree a big hug, yes I am keeping it and no you have not convinced me of any wrong of holding to the traditions of Christmas that I have received from childhood! Merry Christmas!

 Mark 7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. 
 8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do. 
 9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition. 

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3 hours ago, Doc Flay said:

With all that said and done, I am going to give my Christmas tree a big hug, yes I am keeping it and no you have not convinced me of any wrong of holding to the traditions of Christmas that I have received from childhood! Merry Christmas!

Ever wonder why, when Israel was taking the land of Canaan, the Lord commanded that they kill even the children of those nations? Its is primarily because they would bring along with them the traditions they had received as children, idolatries that the Lord didn't want them to observe. Sadly, they didn't always heed, and because of that, they fell also into idolatry, Molech worship and Baal worship, and worship in the groves in their high places, abominations before the Lord. I understand the traditions and joys of childhood, but I must, for the Lord's sake, reject even those if they are against my Lord.  I also remember the fun of drinking and carousing and womanizing when I was overseas in the Navy, but I reject those 'good times' because they are abominable before the Lord.

So please, hug your tree, Doc, but you might want to be silent next time your church sings "All to Jesus I surrender, all to Him I freely give..."

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Very good response, although I am not convinced of sin in the Observance of Christmas as it is. The sin of idolatry is what I am having a problem with in connection to general Christmas celebration today. I never think about Baal when I am singing "silent night".

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I suppose my main point in it all, is that there is only one reason that Dec 25 is attached to the birth of Jesus Christ, and that is because the Catholic institution used that day in the pagan Saturnalia and various other winter feasts, and declared it the feast of Jesus' birth, in order to make it more comfortable for those pagans to consider themselves 'Christian', while still indulging in the old pagan festivities. For a few hundred years before that, no believers ever celebrated Jesus' birth at any time, because scripture doesn't tell us when it is, nor makes mention of celebrating it.  So it is only Christmas because the Catholics said so, to compromise with pagans and make them feel comfortable-the very thing we fundamental Baptists claim we don't do. There is literally no other reason to celebrate the birth of Christ on that, or any other day.

As well, do some historical research: no Christians celebrated it for about the first 200 years that Christians were here in America-it was celebrated by Catholics and by secularists, but true Christians shunned it as being popish and non-Christian. Consider a quote:

"We have no superstitious regard for times and seasons. Certainly we do not believe in the present ecclesiastical arrangement called Christmas: first, because we do not believe in the mass at all, but abhor it, whether it be said or sung in Latin or in English; and, secondly, because we find no Scriptural warrant whatever for observing any day as the birthday of the Savior; and, consequently, its observance is a superstition, because not of divine authority." (Charles Spurgeon, Sermon on Dec. 24, 1871).

This was the general belief for most Christians until maybe the middle to latter half of the 19th century. Before that it was known as a purely Catholic invention.

So you are certainly free to do as you please in such things, but while I may sing the songs, (and do so throughout the year), and while I may use some of the trappings in order to bring the gospel to others on this one day when some may be a little more tender toward hearing it, I otherwise reject its keeping because it is not just man-made, but based purely on Catholic compromise and Christianized paganism. Doesn't matter what my feelings are toward my childhood or family-they pale in comparison to my love for Christ. And, in the time I have not bought presents for my family, including my grandchildren, they all still love me just fine.

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Doctrinally speaking it is understood especially in fundamental circles that offence or causing offence is prohibited. I feel that my way of looking at  the subject as to whether or not that it is proper or improper to celebrate Christmas and my making light of your oppinion  has become offensive, and for this please accept my apology, and forgive me this sin. I should be very careful and sensitive in addressing this matter in light of my ignorance of the history of Christmas.  My daughters do not celebrate or observe Christmas for the very same reasons as have been posted here on this thread. I would like to learn more about the history of Christmas, and have a better understanding of not only my opinion on Christmas but other views too.  

 

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4 hours ago, Doc Flay said:

Doctrinally speaking it is understood especially in fundamental circles that offence or causing offence is prohibited. I feel that my way of looking at  the subject as to whether or not that it is proper or improper to celebrate Christmas and my making light of your oppinion  has become offensive, and for this please accept my apology, and forgive me this sin. I should be very careful and sensitive in addressing this matter in light of my ignorance of the history of Christmas.  My daughters do not celebrate or observe Christmas for the very same reasons as have been posted here on this thread. I would like to learn more about the history of Christmas, and have a better understanding of not only my opinion on Christmas but other views too.  

 

Not at all-no offense taken. It was my thought that this conversation was going very well and politely, though perhaps I have seemed flippant in some of my answers, and for that, I apologize. I enjoy these types of discussions because they challenge me to always stay up on WHY I believe as I do, not just that I follow something I can't back up.

The problem with the history of Christmas is that it is very convoluted. Santa Claus, for instance, is built up from many different origins, all the way from Woden/Odin and Thor, of Nordic mythology, to Saint Nikolas, and Svarte Piet (Black Peter). Throw in Yule traditions, Pre-Catholic Roman Saturnalia even the tradition from ancient Egypt of bringing palms from the trees into the house to decorate during the dark winter months, and you get a real mish-mash. Then of course, on top of it all, the Catholics included Jesus in the mix and really made a mess of it. 

If you have some time, look at this: http://www.av1611.org/othpubls/santa.html   I don't want to put in the article, because it is very long, but here you can see the convoluted mess that has become Christmas.

One thing to note that I have always found interesting, concerning Santa Claus, (I am sure you don't do the Santa thing, but just an interesting side); Originally, Santa Claus' name was a slight changing from Saint Nikolas, SANt' NIklas-Santa Klaus. Now, Nikolas was always pictured as a tall thin man with a white beard and a bishop's robe and hat. Nikolas rode a white horse, (See the Jesus imagery?) and he had a companion, named Black Peter, or Svarte Piet-this is the Dutch tradition. Today, Black peter is pictured as a black servant in festive clothes, but back in the 1800's, he was a short, gnomish man with black furs and a black beard-and it was Black Peter that delivered the presents. He was black because he was covered in soot from the chimneys. However, he didn't just deliver presents, but he delivered punishments to the bad children, such as whippings or, if really bad, he would drag them to hell. If you are familiar with the Krampus, same sort of thing. The thing with Peter, is that he was the devil, Satan, who was somehow bound one day each year to serve Saint Nikolas in this manner. So, it was Satan that delivered the presents, not Nikolas. 

Because of this, most children kind of ignored Nikolas and had Black Peter in their minds connected to Christmas.  So, in the 1800's, when Thomas Nast, who was Dutch, was commissioned to produce some pictures of this Santa Claus for advertising, he didn't draw Saint Nicolas, he drew what was associated with Christmas in his mind: Black Peter. He was drawn as a short hairy man in dark furs. Later they made the furs red and white, changed the beard to white, and boom, Santa Claus as we know him today. But he is designed from Satan. nast.jpg

So, all things considered, a pretty creepy origin story.  

13276.jpgAnother early Nast picture of Claus/Black Peter.

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There is also the idea that December 25th was specifically chosen in order to confront paganism, eliminate the false worship and turn that day from one of paganism to one of Christ worship. Naturally the RCC's hand in this over the years made things far from perfect. Even so, any day of the year can be redeemed for the Lord and Christ should be worshiped each day.

Christmas presents a unique opportunity to share Christ as many people who otherwise might be closed to such are more open during the "Christmas season".

Those who twist and turn to try and prove Christ was actually born on December 25th and those who proclaim such as fact are not doing well in this. We can worship Christ, even celebrate His birth, while acknowledging we don't know the date of His actual birth.

Like all celebrations/holidays which spread forth into a broad appeal the event changes much over time and from one culture to the next. It's common for many different aspects to be mixed and mingled and for some to hold to one aspect more than others. An obscure example would be the American preference for red being a main Christmas color while in South Korea blue is the preferred color.

For most Americans "santa" is the Coca-cola ad inspired version which they see depicted most while in other parts of the world "santa" is often viewed much differently.

Our church "celebrates" Christmas, not with "santa" and such, but as an opportunity to focus upon the reality of Christ, what His coming means, and as an opportunity to get the Gospel to those who may only enter church during the "Christmas season".

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