Jump to content
Online Baptist

The 144,000 Jewish Evangelists And The Great Harvest Of Souls In The Tribulation


Recommended Posts

  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

I have no idea what you are getting at, Covenanter.  Although, if you are "trying" to get into a disagreement about the "Rapture of the saints"... I am not going there.  You believe what you want to believe.

If you persist, I will have to block you and also unfriend you on my Facebook account.  My days of talking about the "Rapture" are over.  Thank you in advance:) 

I apologize for being so blunt, Covenanter.  After the past few days, with SFIC's bloodbath, I won't engage in any further disagreements with any saints on OB.  I won't let the Devil have any victory.  Hope you understand.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 70
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Amen, John!  God's grace through faith is the key to salvation.  It starts in Genesis and ends in Revelation. Do you have any thoughts on Tribulation saints after the Rapture?  I think I know the an

candlelight,   The Jews will be with the survivors of Moab at the river ford on the Arnon River 1/3 of the way down the east side Dead Sea.   Isaiah 16:1-5 1 Send ye the lamb (Jesus)to the ruler

candlelight,   The Five Phases of the First Resurrection (1) Jesus took the Old Testament saints to Heaven at His ascension. Ephesians 4:8 KJV (2) The Holy Spirit and the church age saints are

  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

I think everyone here is in agreement that Jesus will return and call us to Him. The differences seem to be in the details; such as timing.

 

Beyond that, there is disagreement over just what will occur just prior to, during and after the End. Even among those who hold to very similar views there are some differences.

 

Discussions of these matters can be helpful, but arguments are not.

 

It is rather interesting to see how various views have been the dominate views at different times and how different views have changed over the centuries.

 

The main thing to remember is that after we consider these views, we have to take it all back to Scripture and seek the guidance of the Holy Ghost.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

You referred to the deliverance of 1/3 Jews during/from the tribulation; Eric quoted the reference in Zechariah; & I commented on the way Jesus referred to Zec. 13. Yet future end times tribulation, or AD 70 tribulation?

 

Covenanter,

 

Do you believe 1/3 of the Jews in Jerusalem in 70 AD accepted Jesus as Lord before they where killed or sold into slavery?

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

If your "starting position" is that ALL prophecies were fulfilled by 70 A.D., then there is no point in debate.

It's called "preterism" and was a Catholic Doctrine from the 4th Century with St. Augustine as its main proponent.

Catholics and most Protestants have "embraced" this doctrine.

 

Does it really matter if most Christians are unaware of the things coming shortly to planet earth??

Edited by beameup
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

If your "starting position" is that ALL prophecies were fulfilled by 70 A.D., then there is no point in debate.

It's called "preterism" and was a Catholic Doctrine from the 4th Century with St. Augustine as its main proponent.

Catholics and most Protestants have "embraced" this doctrine.

 

Does it really matter if most Christians are unaware of the things coming shortly to planet earth??

 

 

I don't thin the teaching went back to Augustine.  While I believe it was a RCC doctrine invented after the reformation to deflect the reformed teaching that the pope was Antichrist.  When that failed due to the obvious shortcomings in the theory, they invented futurism for the same reason.  About 200 years after that it began to spread to protestants and shortly after that dispensationalism came about.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

I don't thin the teaching went back to Augustine.  While I believe it was a RCC doctrine invented after the reformation to deflect the reformed teaching that the pope was Antichrist.  When that failed due to the obvious shortcomings in the theory, they invented futurism for the same reason.  About 200 years after that it began to spread to protestants and shortly after that dispensationalism came about.

No, it was invented for the purpose of deflecting any thought that the Emperor of the Roman Empire was "the antichrist".

When the church merged with the state, all opposition had to be silenced.  Clearly Augustine was the architect of

"replacement theology" and "preterism" and other false doctrines that have been promulgated for almost 2,000 years.

It has only been in recent times that the "forgotten truths" have been revived.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

No, it was invented for the purpose of deflecting any thought that the Emperor of the Roman Empire was "the antichrist".

When the church merged with the state, all opposition had to be silenced.  Clearly Augustine was the architect of

"replacement theology" and "preterism" and other false doctrines that have been promulgated for almost 2,000 years.

It has only been in recent times that the "forgotten truths" have been revived.

You mean  invented recently.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

Covenanter,

 

Do you believe 1/3 of the Jews in Jerusalem in 70 AD accepted Jesus as Lord before they where killed or sold into slavery?

The 1/3 represents those who fled the city BEFORE the final siege, & possible the "many thousands" reported to believe when Paul returned to Jerusalem. I can't give details apart from the information revealed in Scripture.

 

The 144,000 is a "perfect" symbolic number of faithful Jews protected from the 4 winds of tribulation. These saw the warning signs & escaped from the city. (virgins with regard to religious purity, not necessarily celibate.)

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

If your "starting position" is that ALL prophecies were fulfilled by 70 A.D., then there is no point in debate.

It's called "preterism" and was a Catholic Doctrine from the 4th Century with St. Augustine as its main proponent.

Catholics and most Protestants have "embraced" this doctrine.

 

Does it really matter if most Christians are unaware of the things coming shortly to planet earth??

My "starting position" is Scripture - context & cross references, with Jesus & the Apostles given prominence in understanding the OT. From where I stand - & read - many (most) prophecies have a direct fulfilment in the life, ministry, death & resurrection of the LORD Jesus, the Apostolic era, which ended with the death of the Apostles & the fall of Jerusalem.

 

There is a great final prophecy to be fulfilled - the return of the LORD Jesus in person, in glory, for resurrection & judgement.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

Could you give precedent for understanding virgin as religious purity rather than sexual purity please?
Why should we not understand the word in its normal useage?

There are references in prophecy to Israel as the virgin, corrupting herself by idolatory.

 

In normal usage, "virgin" refers to girls, not young men. And of course marriage does not defile.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

There are references in prophecy to Israel as the virgin, corrupting herself by idolatory.

In normal usage, "virgin" refers to girls, not young men. And of course marriage does not defile.


Well the overwhelming useage is personal sexual purity; those which speak of the nation clearly do so.
And then there is this:

Rev 14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

If we allow the passage to define the meaning we find the clear indication is sexual purity.
"....not defiled with women; for they are virgins...".

How can you possibly force this to mean religious purity when it so clearly places the context otherwise?

Furthermore, "....these are they which follow the Lamb withersoever he goeth."
Not "which fled from an enemy" - they followed, not fled.

By the way, I am not placing this event into any understanding or position - simply pointing out that your interpretation does not fit easily with what the Bible plainly says.
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Well the overwhelming useage is personal sexual purity; those which speak of the nation clearly do so.
And then there is this:

Rev 14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

If we allow the passage to define the meaning we find the clear indication is sexual purity.
"....not defiled with women; for they are virgins...".

How can you possibly force this to mean religious purity when it so clearly places the context otherwise?

Furthermore, "....these are they which follow the Lamb withersoever he goeth."
Not "which fled from an enemy" - they followed, not fled.

By the way, I am not placing this event into any understanding or position - simply pointing out that your interpretation does not fit easily with what the Bible plainly says.

Hi Dave,

 

I think these virgin men were not defiled Spiritually by Harlot Babylon but were true to God.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Hi Dave,

I think these virgin men were not defiled Spiritually by Harlot Babylon but were true to God.


You can think that, but the primary meaning of the word virgin in this verse is defined in the verse as not defiled by women.
The fact they follow the Lamb is an additional thought, not a further definition. THAT thought indeed indicates that, but it does not supplant the sexual purity indicated by the first clause.

In other words, both are true, not the second defining the first.
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Rev 14:4b These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth.
These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

Placing this verse IN the Tribulation indicates that they are the "firstfruits"
saved by faith at the beginning of the Tribulation. Many feel that these Jews
will be saved in the manner of Saul/Paul and will go out to fulfill The Great Commission.
Given the examples of Philip's supernatural transportation and the gifts of supernatural linguistics,
it is easy to see how 144,000 could "follow the Lamb" and evangelized every corner of the globe.

Edited by beameup
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

Rev 14:4b These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth.
These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

Placing this verse IN the Tribulation indicates that they are the "firstfruits"
saved by faith at the beginning of the Tribulation. Many feel that these Jews
will be saved in the manner of Saul/Paul and will go out to fulfill The Great Commission.
Given the examples of Philip's supernatural transportation and the gifts of supernatural linguistics,
it is easy to see how 144,000 could "follow the Lamb" and evangelized every corner of the globe.

These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb indicates that these are the first to follow Jesus Christ, the Lamb of God, as Lord, Saviour & Redeemer. Obviously the converts from Pentecost & the Apostolic period. Yet future Jewish converts can hardly be described as "firstfruits."

 

Where does Scripture describe them as "evangelists?" Not Revelation, but Acts:

Acts 11:19 Now they which were scattered abroad upon the persecution that arose about Stephen travelled as far as Phenice, and Cyprus, and Antioch, preaching the word to none but unto the Jews only. 20 And some of them were men of Cyprus and Cyrene, which, when they were come to Antioch, spake unto the Grecians, preaching the Lord Jesus. 21 And the hand of the Lord was with them: and a great number believed, and turned unto the Lord.

 

Especially as the normal meaning of words places Revelation in the first C -

Rev. 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw. Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

 

Note also: 2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present [you as] a chaste virgin to Christ. 3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. [2Cr 11:2-3 KJV]
 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

The work begun by "The Twelve" Jewish Apostles, as recorded in Acts, never was completed - they never "reached out" to every tribe, tongue, and nation.

Matthew 24 remains unfulfilled.  That is the purpose of the Tribulation - that Israeli Jews might fulfill the Great Commission by preaching (once again)

the Gospel of the Kingdom.  The last approximate 2,000 years have been a hiatus, a "parenthesis" in prophecy, in order that the Pauline Gospel of Grace be

spread to the Gentiles.  That is why Matthew 24 mentions specifically the "abomination of desolation" spoken by the Prophet Daniel.  Without a third Temple

there cannot be any "abomination" by the antichrist.  Clear evidence indicates that Revelation was written near the end of the first century and is yet future.

Edited by beameup
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

That's a great deal of speculation there. It also contradicts all those who for so many years have proclaimed that as soon as the Gospel is spread to every people, Christ will return.

 

 

 

 

This is when every person on earth will hear the gospel.

 

Revelation 14:6-7

6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

7Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

This is when every person on earth will hear the gospel.

 

Revelation 14:6-7

6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

7Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

The Angel will be preaching from the heavens over the earth (first heaven) during the Great Tribulation (last 3 1/2 years of JUDGEMENT)

and following the mission of the 144,000 Jews (12,000 from each Tribe of Israel).  The gifts of Supernatural Transportation (Acts 8:39)

and Supernatural Linguistics ("tongues" Acts 2) as well as the gifts of healing and miracles, will be given to the 144,000 evangelists. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

The work begun by "The Twelve" Jewish Apostles, as recorded in Acts, never was completed - they never "reached out" to every tribe, tongue, and nation.

That work is still progressing until Jesus returns.

 

Matthew 24 remains unfulfilled.  That is the purpose of the Tribulation - that Israeli Jews might fulfill the Great Commission by preaching (once again)

the Gospel of the Kingdom

Can you support that assertion by Scripture? .

 

The last approximate 2,000 years have been a hiatus, a "parenthesis" in prophecy, in order that the Pauline Gospel of Grace be spread to the Gentiles. 

Have you not read the great promise to Abraham, repeated to his son & grandson, & quoted by Paul?

Gen. 12:3 ... and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

22:18 ... in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;

Gal. 3:Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

 

The last 2000 years have been no "hiatus, a no "parenthesis" in prophecy"  but the outworking of the purposes of God declared to Abraham.

 

That is why Matthew 24 mentions specifically the "abomination of desolation" spoken by the Prophet Daniel.  Without a third Temple there cannot be any "abomination" by the antichrist.  Clear evidence indicates that Revelation was written near the end of the first century and is yet future.

If you read Luke in parallel with Matthew, you will see that the "abomination" sign the warning to flee the doomed city - was:

Luke 21:20And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. 21 Then let them which are in Judæa flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. 22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.   

 

The "clear evidence" for a pre-70 date is the first chapter of Rev.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Anyone ever consider that we might be better off doing what we were called to do first rather than trying to predict what will occur after it's said we won't be here anyway?

 

God telling us of the end is to motivate us to live more fully for Him, to prompt us to spread the Gospel with more urgency, making disciples.

 

God didn't tell us the end is coming so we would spend countless years trying to predict the timing of the end, which He says we can't, and it's not so we can try to come up with details to fill in the blanks that God purposefully left there.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Anyone ever consider that we might be better off doing what we were called to do first rather than trying to predict what will occur after it's said we won't be here anyway?

 

God telling us of the end is to motivate us to live more fully for Him, to prompt us to spread the Gospel with more urgency, making disciples.

 

God didn't tell us the end is coming so we would spend countless years trying to predict the timing of the end, which He says we can't, and it's not so we can try to come up with details to fill in the blanks that God purposefully left there.

John, you aren't going to sit in a rocking chair with a blanket and Bible waiting for the Rapture? :nuts:

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

No, I don't think sitting in that rocker, blanket in place, with my Bible open to Revelation and the TV tuned to the news and a prophecy report newsletter at my side with do! :blink:

 

I was saved in 1981. As are most folks when they are first saved I had a great hunger to learn more of the Lord and His Word and grow in the Lord. At some point I came upon much of the prophecy focused stuff, much of it from the 70s, and then I kept adding more to it throughout the 80s and into the 90s.

 

The end time prophecy preachers and authors were all certain they were right, the end was just around the corner, probably this year or next, and they showed how the Bible clearly spoke about the Soviet Union and the Communist Bloc. They told of how the Bible spoke of the fall of America under President Carter and the rise of Iran at that time and both meant the end was at hand.

 

Then Reagan became president, Iran fell from the headlines, their stories changed. Later the Soviet Union collapsed, the Communist Bloc was gone and they scrambled to create new "certain" books of how the end would be. Then Saddam became the focus, but eventually he was killed and the stories changed yet again. Today most of them are saying they see "the war on terror" in the Bible and what they once ascribed to the Soviet Union they now place on "terrorist Islam".

 

There were even those who did calculations and came to the conclusion that Ronald Wilson Reagan was numerically 666. Meanwhile some others declared the birthmark on the Russian leader Gorbochev's head was the mark of the beast.

 

That's all just the tip of the iceberg, as it were, because there were so many other things put forth with just as much certainty as those today proclaim.

 

Now there has come a backlash where we have many who were raised hearing all these things who now have grown so skeptical they have little to do with Christianity or they have wrote it off entirely. There are many who grew up on "The Late Planet Earth" who bought into it so completely that once they could finally see how wrong the book was they grew greatly disillusioned. And yet another generation is going through much the same thing from the "Left Behind" mania.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

No, I don't think sitting in that rocker, blanket in place, with my Bible open to Revelation and the TV tuned to the news and a prophecy report newsletter at my side with do! :blink:

 

I was saved in 1981. As are most folks when they are first saved I had a great hunger to learn more of the Lord and His Word and grow in the Lord. At some point I came upon much of the prophecy focused stuff, much of it from the 70s, and then I kept adding more to it throughout the 80s and into the 90s.

 

The end time prophecy preachers and authors were all certain they were right, the end was just around the corner, probably this year or next, and they showed how the Bible clearly spoke about the Soviet Union and the Communist Bloc. They told of how the Bible spoke of the fall of America under President Carter and the rise of Iran at that time and both meant the end was at hand.

 

Then Reagan became president, Iran fell from the headlines, their stories changed. Later the Soviet Union collapsed, the Communist Bloc was gone and they scrambled to create new "certain" books of how the end would be. Then Saddam became the focus, but eventually he was killed and the stories changed yet again. Today most of them are saying they see "the war on terror" in the Bible and what they once ascribed to the Soviet Union they now place on "terrorist Islam".

 

There were even those who did calculations and came to the conclusion that Ronald Wilson Reagan was numerically 666. Meanwhile some others declared the birthmark on the Russian leader Gorbochev's head was the mark of the beast.

 

That's all just the tip of the iceberg, as it were, because there were so many other things put forth with just as much certainty as those today proclaim.

 

Now there has come a backlash where we have many who were raised hearing all these things who now have grown so skeptical they have little to do with Christianity or they have wrote it off entirely. There are many who grew up on "The Late Planet Earth" who bought into it so completely that once they could finally see how wrong the book was they grew greatly disillusioned. And yet another generation is going through much the same thing from the "Left Behind" mania.

I was joiking in my statement to you.  I know that wouldn't be you, John.

My husband has said almost the same thing.  He was saved when he was 14, and he is in his early mid 40's now.  When the Obama hysteria started, my husband went over almost exactly what you wrote above with me.  He even said that the Rapture was supposed to be in the Clinton years.  Well, we know that didn't happen.  Joe is adament about not speaking prophecy to people, b/c the world needs the Gospel, not talk of End Times.  He believes the world is laughing at believers for all this talk.  In fact, statistically speaking, people are not saved out of Bible prophecy.  Give out the Gospel of John and Romans to people, to plant seeds to be harvested by the Lord.  Go out soul winning, when the church is doing it.  People are hungry for the Word of God.  In fact, my church was out soul winning in my city a few months ago.  One citizen complained, so the city called my pastor.  We have our attorney working on it.  We believe that the Lord wants us to continue walking the streets, handing out John and Romans and giving Bible tracts and invitations to our church.  We believe it is Satan that is standing in the way.  I know it is, b/c everywhere I go in town, I witness to the lost.  They want to hear about Jesus Christ.  Talk about End Times scares people.  The news is enough for them.  They need the Word of God to bring them to salvation. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

No, I don't think sitting in that rocker, blanket in place, with my Bible open to Revelation and the TV tuned to the news and a prophecy report newsletter at my side with do! :blink:

 

I was saved in 1981. As are most folks when they are first saved I had a great hunger to learn more of the Lord and His Word and grow in the Lord. At some point I came upon much of the prophecy focused stuff, much of it from the 70s, and then I kept adding more to it throughout the 80s and into the 90s.

 

The end time prophecy preachers and authors were all certain they were right, the end was just around the corner, probably this year or next, and they showed how the Bible clearly spoke about the Soviet Union and the Communist Bloc. They told of how the Bible spoke of the fall of America under President Carter and the rise of Iran at that time and both meant the end was at hand.

 

Then Reagan became president, Iran fell from the headlines, their stories changed. Later the Soviet Union collapsed, the Communist Bloc was gone and they scrambled to create new "certain" books of how the end would be. Then Saddam became the focus, but eventually he was killed and the stories changed yet again. Today most of them are saying they see "the war on terror" in the Bible and what they once ascribed to the Soviet Union they now place on "terrorist Islam".

 

There were even those who did calculations and came to the conclusion that Ronald Wilson Reagan was numerically 666. Meanwhile some others declared the birthmark on the Russian leader Gorbochev's head was the mark of the beast.

 

That's all just the tip of the iceberg, as it were, because there were so many other things put forth with just as much certainty as those today proclaim.

 

Now there has come a backlash where we have many who were raised hearing all these things who now have grown so skeptical they have little to do with Christianity or they have wrote it off entirely. There are many who grew up on "The Late Planet Earth" who bought into it so completely that once they could finally see how wrong the book was they grew greatly disillusioned. And yet another generation is going through much the same thing from the "Left Behind" mania.

John,

 

I was saved in 1955 at the age of 6. By the age of 13 I was studying bible prophecy.

 

2 Peter 3:10-14

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

 

11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

 

12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

 

13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

 

14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

 

 

 

Understanding bible prophecy should cause Christians to work diligently for the night is coming.

 

I have been working for Jesus most of my life. I am not perfect though. In my 20s I cooled off. I warmed back up in my thirties and have been striving for the last 30 some years. I am a Gideon, deacon, Sunday school teacher and a businessman who pays for bible based radio and tv commercials for Jesus even though I love bible prophecy. So don't imply we who love bible prophecy, are not working for Jesus diligently.

 

I believe you are also working for Jesus diligently. Some have different callings.

 

Jude 1:22-23

21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

 

22 And of some have compassion, making a difference:

 

23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.

 

Some will get saved because of the love of God and some will get saved because of  the fear of God.

 

At 6 years old I understood that I was a sinner and going to a burning hell if I didn’t repent and accept Jesus. Some will get saved if you tell them about prophecy. My friend did.

Edited by Eric Stahl
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Independent Fundamental Baptist
But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them,
as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

 

Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love;
and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
 
1 Thess 5:1-9  We are instructed to be aware of events occurring in the world, and prophetic scriptures.
Just because someone "writes a book", that does not relieve you of the personal responsibility to study yourself.
 
These Bereans were more noble than those in Thessalonica,
in that they received the word with all readiness of mind,
and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
Acts 17:11
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

The work begun by "The Twelve" Jewish Apostles, as recorded in Acts, never was completed - they never "reached out" to every tribe, tongue, and nation.

Matthew 24 remains unfulfilled.  That is the purpose of the Tribulation - that Israeli Jews might fulfill the Great Commission by preaching (once again)

the Gospel of the Kingdom.  The last approximate 2,000 years have been a hiatus, a "parenthesis" in prophecy, in order that the Pauline Gospel of Grace be

spread to the Gentiles.  That is why Matthew 24 mentions specifically the "abomination of desolation" spoken by the Prophet Daniel.  Without a third Temple

there cannot be any "abomination" by the antichrist.  Clear evidence indicates that Revelation was written near the end of the first century and is yet future.

 

Scofield details the four different Gospels in his notes to Rev. 14. That seems to be the origin of that line of interpretation.

 

 

14:6  And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

gospel

Gospel. This great theme may be summarized as follows:

I. In itself the word Gospel means good news.

II. Four forms of the Gospel are to be distinguished"

(1) The Gospel of the kingdom. This is the good news that God purposes to set up on the earth, in fulfilment of the Davidic Covenant 2 Samuel 7:16 a kingdom, political, spiritual, Israelitish, universal, over which God's Son, David's heir, shall be King, and which shall be, for one thousand years, the manifestation of the righteousness of God in human affairs. (See Scofield "Matthew 3:2") .

Two preachings of this Gospel are mentioned, one past, beginning with the ministry of John the Baptist, continued by our Lord and His disciples, and ending with the Jewis rejection of the King. The other is yet future Matthew 24:14 during the great tribulation, and immediately preceding the coming of the King in glory.

(2) The Gospel of the grace of God. This is the good news that Jesus Christ, the rejected King, has died on the cross for the sins of the world, that He was raised from the dead for our justification, and that by Him all that believe are justified from all things. This form of the Gospel is described in many ways. It is the Gospel "of God" Romans 1:1 because it originates in His love; "of Christ" 2 Corinthians 10:14 because it flows from His sacrifice, and because He is the alone Object of Gospel faith; of the "grace of God" Acts 20:24 because it saves those whom the law curses; of "the glory" ; 1 Timothy 1:11 ; 2 Corinthians 4:4 because it concerns Him who is in the glory, and who is bringing the many sons to glory Hebrews 2:10 of "our salvation" Ephesians 1:13 because it is the "power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth" Romans 1:16 of "the uncircumcision" Galatians 2:7 because it saves wholly apart from forms and ordinances of "peace" Ephesians 6:15 because through Christ it makes peace between the sinner and God, and imparts inward peace.

(3) The everlasting Gospel Revelation 14:6 . This is to be preached to the earth-dwellers at the very end of the great tribulation and immediately preceding the judgment of the nations Matthew 15:31 . It is neither the Gospel of the kingdom, nor of grace. Though its burden is judgment, not salvation, it is good news to Israel and to those who, during the tribulation, have been saved ; Revelation 7:9-14 ; Luke 21:28 ; Psalms 96:11-13 ; Isaiah 35:4-10 .

(4) That which Paul calls, "my Gospel" Romans 2:16 . This is the Gospel of the grace of God in its fullest development, but includes the revelation of the result of that Gospel in the outcalling of the church, her relationships, position, privileges, and responsibility. It is the distinctive truth of Ephesians and Colossians, but interpenetrates all of Paul's writings.

 

While few of the contributors to the forum acknowledge their debt to Scofield for their theology, I think it likely that when it became necessary to establish the "fundamentals of the faith" Scofield became the standard one-volume commentary issued to & by the Bible colleges. (I understand free issue.) His teaching & his errors thus became widely accepted by Bible-believing Christians, & are obviously still very strongly held.

 

One extraordinary assertion is that the everlasting Gospel "is neither the Gospel of the kingdom, nor of grace." Presumably also it has nothing to do with "the everlasting covenant" as Scofield has no notes for that reference. (Heb. 13) His very strange thinking is evident on this forum.

 

Paul wrote of the Gospel preached to Abraham (Gal. 3) - but why does Scofield not consider that to be preaching THE Gospel (as Paul refers to it.)

 

20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant, 21 make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen. (Heb. 13)

 

Gal. 3:Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

John,

 

I was saved in 1955 at the age of 6. By the age of 13 I was studying bible prophecy.

 

2 Peter 3:10-14

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

 

11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

 

12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

 

13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

 

14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

 

 

 

Understanding bible prophecy should cause Christians to work diligently for the night is coming.

 

I have been working for Jesus most of my life. I am not perfect though. In my 20s I cooled off. I warmed back up in my thirties and have been striving for the last 30 some years. I am a Gideon, deacon, Sunday school teacher and a businessman who pays for bible based radio and tv commercials for Jesus even though I love bible prophecy. So don't imply we who love bible prophecy, are not working for Jesus diligently.

 

I believe you are also working for Jesus diligently. Some have different callings.

 

Jude 1:22-23

21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

 

22 And of some have compassion, making a difference:

 

23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.

 

Some will get saved because of the love of God and some will get saved because of  the fear of God.

 

At 6 years old I understood that I was a sinner and going to a burning hell if I didn’t repent and accept Jesus. Some will get saved if you tell them about prophecy. My friend did.

 

Brother, Eric... I am not saying that no one has ever got saved with Bible prophecy.  I am saying that "most" people get saved when presented with the gospel alone, not prophecy.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Brother, Eric... I am not saying that no one has ever got saved with Bible prophecy.  I am saying that "most" people get saved when presented with the gospel alone, not prophecy.

Candlelight,

 

I was talking to John81. He finds little value in watching for the signs given in bible prophecy. I was trying to explain to him that a person can be both interested in prophecy and a soul winner. You have always been kind and encouraging.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Candlelight,

 

I was talking to John81. He finds little value in watching for the signs given in bible prophecy. I was trying to explain to him that a person can be both interested in prophecy and a soul winner. You have always been kind and encouraging.

Oh, Okay.  I like Bible prophecy, however, I got too caught up with it last year.  I am taking a break from it for awhile.  Thank you, brother.  You are also kind and encouraging.  :)

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

There IS little value in watching for signs. We know Christ is going to return. We know He could return at any time. Therefore we should be busy about the Father's business. There is no need to look for signs.

John,

What you said is true. But the signs are not for the appearing or rapture. The significance of the signs are that since the day of the Lord is coming soon the appearing of Christ must be even sooner. For me that is exciting like waiting for Christmas for children.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Who's Online   1 Member, 0 Anonymous, 33 Guests (See full list)

×
×
  • Create New...